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2011-2012 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:36 PM
  #76
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Have you ever seen Kreider?
Yes, many times, how about you?

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:40 PM
  #77
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Yes, many times, how about you?
I don't think we watch the same game.

And by that, I mean I watch hockey.

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07-12-2011, 01:01 PM
  #78
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I wonder if Cichy will change his mind about transfering to Western Michigan, I know it was speculated that he was going to Western Michigan to join his former coach Jeff Blashill (was his coach in the USHL) but Blashill just announced he's leaving Western Michigan to join the Red Wings as an assistant coach.

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07-12-2011, 01:08 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
I don't think we watch the same game.

And by that, I mean I watch hockey.
What do you see taht I don't? obviously his college coach doesn't see him as a big scorer, he's spent a lot of time as a 3rd liner and is the 8th leading scorer on his college team.

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07-12-2011, 01:18 PM
  #80
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What do you see taht I don't? obviously his college coach doesn't see him as a big scorer, he's spent a lot of time as a 3rd liner and is the 8th leading scorer on his college team.
There's also a bunch of older players ahead of him. College isn't like Juniors. You're not playing against boys. He's been a PPG forward in both WJC tourneys he played in.

But that's totally besides the point. In what way is he similar to Chad Kilger? Or did you just throw out a name you've never seen play?

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Old
07-12-2011, 01:24 PM
  #81
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There's also a bunch of older players ahead of him. College isn't like Juniors. You're not playing against boys. He's been a PPG forward in both WJC tourneys he played in.

But that's totally besides the point. In what way is he similar to Chad Kilger? Or did you just throw out a name you've never seen play?
Most guys that are NHL 1st rounders put up good numbers pretty much from day 1 NCAA.

Comparable to Kilger, both guys have good size and an excellent skating stide but do not generate a lot of offense.

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07-12-2011, 04:07 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Most guys that are NHL 1st rounders put up good numbers pretty much from day 1 NCAA.

Comparable to Kilger, both guys have good size and an excellent skating stide but do not generate a lot of offense.
Leblanc didn't, and he was getting prime ice-time. Does that mean he's comparable to Dominic Moore? And very few freshmen that aren't oozing offensive skill will get a ton of ice-time over older, more mature, thicker-framed players in strong programs like BC, North Dakota, Denver, etc.

And Kilger wasn't even close to having the hockey sense of Kreider. Chris Drury (the good one) is a lot closer a comparison. Nor did Kilger have any comparable intangibles.

And once again, you're underestimating Kreider's offense. He was a PPG player in both WJCs, including a Gold medal run. He's hardly the player you're trying to sell him as.

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Old
07-12-2011, 04:23 PM
  #83
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Leblanc didn't, and he was getting prime ice-time. Does that mean he's comparable to Dominic Moore? And very few freshmen that aren't oozing offensive skill will get a ton of ice-time over older, more mature, thicker-framed players in strong programs like BC, North Dakota, Denver, etc.

And Kilger wasn't even close to having the hockey sense of Kreider. Chris Drury (the good one) is a lot closer a comparison. Nor did Kilger have any comparable intangibles.

And once again, you're underestimating Kreider's offense. He was a PPG player in both WJCs, including a Gold medal run. He's hardly the player you're trying to sell him as.
LeBlanc led his team in scoring as a freshman.

I guess you'll just have to watch and learn, Kreider is one of the most overrated prospects in all of hockey.

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Old
07-12-2011, 04:28 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
LeBlanc led his team in scoring as a freshman.

I guess you'll just have to watch and learn, Kreider is one of the most overrated prospects in all of hockey.
He did, with a whole lot more ice-time, better linemates, and in a weaker division. You said 'put up good numbers' when they had the same number of points, though Kreider scored more goals, but in a larger number of games.

And what do I have to watch and learn? Anyone expecting a top liner that scores at a PPG clip out of Kreider is an idiot.

But getting a 50ish point 2-way player, probably 30 goal/60 points in his best years, with leadership and a non-stop attitude, I'd hardly call that beyond his talent.

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Old
07-12-2011, 05:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
He did, with a whole lot more ice-time, better linemates, and in a weaker division. You said 'put up good numbers' when they had the same number of points, though Kreider scored more goals, but in a larger number of games.

And what do I have to watch and learn? Anyone expecting a top liner that scores at a PPG clip out of Kreider is an idiot.

But getting a 50ish point 2-way player, probably 30 goal/60 points in his best years, with leadership and a non-stop attitude, I'd hardly call that beyond his talent.
He'll never even come close to 30 goals in the NHL, ever. The thing you are missing is that Kreider at 18 was physically pretty close to what he will be 3-4 years later, while Leblanc plays a mature game but his frame is still raw(was 170-175 lbs when drafted) and needs to fill out to allow him to have success playing his gritty style. LeBlanc at 195-200lbs will be a top 6 NHLer.

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07-12-2011, 07:40 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Most guys that are NHL 1st rounders put up good numbers pretty much from day 1 NCAA.

Comparable to Kilger, both guys have good size and an excellent skating stide but do not generate a lot of offense.
The NCAA is a TOTALLY different brand of hockey than the NHL. Kreider's style is more suited to North American pro game. He has a chance to be a Top 6 forward in the NHL while many of his higher scoring college teammates will find themselves playing in Europe.

Put it this way....you can't go wrong with either Kreider or Leblanc in the system. Both were drafted in the second half of the 1st Round and both will be useful NHLers.

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Old
07-12-2011, 08:32 PM
  #87
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Here is the habs list in 2009 as shown per RDS:
Quote:
#9 which was the top name we could see on tv....Louis Leblanc.....
beetween 10 and 14......
Ryan Ellis
Jordan Schroder
John Moore

the list end at 18 under the title "acceptable"......
15 is Kulikov
17 is Kreider
18 is Kadri....
Ryan Ellis was already picked so if not Leblanc, we'd have picked Schroeder.

Agree that Kreider is a bit overrated but still a good prospect nonetheless. Very flashy player because of his amazing speed and he's got great size.

Not sure Leblanc was a political pick. I think the habs liked him and were lucky they could finally pick a local guy they really liked at the right draft spot.

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Old
07-12-2011, 10:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He's 6' tall and an above average skater. In terms of talent, well he was above 1 PPGM at the WJHC which is the best junior aged players in the world, not some low end Jr.A league or prep school. The reason his stats weren't that great in the Q is he played most of the year with a shoulder that was in terrible shape, needing major surgery.
He also played under a ultra-defensive system.

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Old
07-12-2011, 10:14 PM
  #89
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Not our prospects, but I just noticed Mark Stone got 37 goals and 106 points to lead the Wheat Kings in scoring last year.

W.T.F. What did we trade our 6th round pick for that year? He was one of my sleepers.

P.S.

Quote:
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With the 122nd overall pick in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft, the Florida Panthers are proud to select, from the Brandon Wheat Kings of the Western Hockey League, ...



..., Forward Mark Stone.


Even though Mark has had some concussion issues, we love his mix of size, skill, grit, toughness and two-way ability. He has a very high ceiling and could become a solid power forward for years to come.

PMing next GM.
My god I'm good. :smugface:


Last edited by Em Ancien: 07-12-2011 at 10:25 PM.
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Old
07-12-2011, 10:48 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Not our prospects, but I just noticed Mark Stone got 37 goals and 106 points to lead the Wheat Kings in scoring last year.

W.T.F. What did we trade our 6th round pick for that year? He was one of my sleepers.

P.S.



My god I'm good. :smugface:
Holy ****, the Sens ended up with this kid?

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Old
07-12-2011, 10:57 PM
  #91
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Wow. I just found out we lost our 6th round pick in that trade in 09 to grab Simila (sp?). Gainey






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Old
07-12-2011, 11:42 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Wow. I just found out we lost our 6th round pick in that trade in 09 to grab Simila (sp?). Gainey





Actually, I remember Timmins specifically saying he wanted Simila because he thought he could have the same progression pattern as a guy like Rinne. And that he could probably go up in the rounds if he was passed over in that year's draft.

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Old
07-12-2011, 11:44 PM
  #93
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Actually, I remember Timmins specifically saying he wanted Simila because he thought he could have the same progression pattern as a guy like Rinne. And that he could probably go up in the rounds if he was passed over in that year's draft.
Gainey includes the whole organization. It's just easier to blame the one that traded the pick.

Now, where was I? Oh yeah...

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Old
07-14-2011, 12:00 PM
  #94
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Interesting tidbit. I asked Corey Pronman (scout for Hockey Prospectus) on Twitter a few questions about Hab forward prospects.

1-He thinks Palushaj is the most likely to become a top 6 forward.
2-He thinks Avtsin has the highest 'ceiling' in terms of what he could potentially achieve.
3-He thinks Leblanc will be a 3rd liner, but maybe top 6 forward.
4-He doesn't think Kristo will even be an NHLer.

1 and 4 were very surprising to me, especially 4.

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07-14-2011, 12:36 PM
  #95
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Yeaa it was a big shocker when i saw his tweet about Kristo not being an nhler

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Old
07-14-2011, 01:34 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by ScopeHockey View Post
Interesting tidbit. I asked Corey Pronman (scout for Hockey Prospectus) on Twitter a few questions about Hab forward prospects.

1-He thinks Palushaj is the most likely to become a top 6 forward.
2-He thinks Avtsin has the highest 'ceiling' in terms of what he could potentially achieve.
3-He thinks Leblanc will be a 3rd liner, but maybe top 6 forward.
4-He doesn't think Kristo will even be an NHLer.

1 and 4 were very surprising to me, especially 4.
What's hocky prospectus? Never heard of it or him.

Palushaj could become a top 6 forward, but I don't agree he is the most likely. I wonder how his offensive game will translate to the NHL, he's more of a playmaker so if he's with good linemates then perhaps he could be a top 6 forward, but I see him more as a 3rd liner.

I don't know if Avtsin has the highest ceiling, he's so much of mystery, after watching every game he played in the AHL I still don't know what to make of him other then Martin would likely bench him in a heartbeat as soon as he pulls the waiting at the redline while the puck is in his own end. But he's clearly shown flashes of skill to go with a solid frame, much like Kostitsyn did in the AHL at his age.

If Leblanc is a 3rd liner for us down the road, that could mean we have a deep roster. I think he'll be a top 6 winger for us, but if he's a solid 3rd liner then so be it.

I don't see how Kristo doesn't make the NHL unless his offensive game goes to hell. I know there's some concerns for him needing to grow up a bit still and that label has been with him since before he was drafted but players like him are guys you expect to make the NHL. He wants the puck, he wants to be the goto guy, with his speed and shot plus an improving all round game, I would be very surprised if he's not in the NHL. In fact I think next to Leblanc he has the highest upside of our forward prospects.

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Old
07-14-2011, 01:51 PM
  #97
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What's hocky prospectus? Never heard of it or him.

Palushaj could become a top 6 forward, but I don't agree he is the most likely. I wonder how his offensive game will translate to the NHL, he's more of a playmaker so if he's with good linemates then perhaps he could be a top 6 forward, but I see him more as a 3rd liner.

I don't know if Avtsin has the highest ceiling, he's so much of mystery, after watching every game he played in the AHL I still don't know what to make of him other then Martin would likely bench him in a heartbeat as soon as he pulls the waiting at the redline while the puck is in his own end. But he's clearly shown flashes of skill to go with a solid frame, much like Kostitsyn did in the AHL at his age.

If Leblanc is a 3rd liner for us down the road, that could mean we have a deep roster. I think he'll be a top 6 winger for us, but if he's a solid 3rd liner then so be it.

I don't see how Kristo doesn't make the NHL unless his offensive game goes to hell. I know there's some concerns for him needing to grow up a bit still and that label has been with him since before he was drafted but players like him are guys you expect to make the NHL. He wants the puck, he wants to be the goto guy, with his speed and shot plus an improving all round game, I would be very surprised if he's not in the NHL. In fact I think next to Leblanc he has the highest upside of our forward prospects.
http://www.puckprospectus.com/

Pronman is their prospect guy. He definitely has his own, non-mainstream opinions about players so I take him with a grain of salt but he backs up his opinions with observations and is really good about answering questions. He's gone on record a few times with not liking the Habs current prospect group although he loves Beauleiu and Yemelin. Not so much fond of Tinordi, Weber, Kristo and Leblanc.

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Old
07-14-2011, 02:48 PM
  #98
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BTW, JT Miller de-commit from North Dakota and will play for Plymouth in the ohl. Great news for Mark MacMillan who's going to get more ice time

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07-14-2011, 02:53 PM
  #99
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BTW, JT Miller de-commit from North Dakota and will play for Plymouth in the ohl. Great news for Mark MacMillan who's going to get more ice time
Are you Jay_hdv on twitter ?

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07-14-2011, 03:04 PM
  #100
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Are you Jay_hdv on twitter ?
yessir

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