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2011-2012 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other)

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Old
07-11-2011, 06:28 PM
  #51
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I have always had an issue with physically developed bigger players playing in the CHL over NCAA.

To me those players are better served facing older more mature adults in NCAA hockey rather then mostly underdeveloped kids in the CHL.

Big mature players plowing through smaller players doesn't really help long term development a lot of the time. Exhibit A: Grachev.

One of the reasons Kreider wouldn't really have benefitted. He's bigger, stronger, and faster then most of the players in the Q.

Miller, same thing.

Id prefer Yogan not play CHL, either. Unfortunately he can't go to the AHL yet.

Fogarty will fit well in NCAA with Notre Dame in a year. CCHA is a good place for him to develop as a bigger, stronger, two way player.

CHL benefits guys like Thomas well, where his offensive skills can develop. But they still need to learn to play against more mature players. So their development path could be longer. Thomas hasn't developed any responsible play. He likes to cherry pick alot. Not a dependable guy defensively. And isn't strong enough yet for the Pro game.

Another positive about NCAA is their training. They spend a lot of time in practice and in the weight rooms training.

There are pros and cons for both.

CHL has a longer schedule.

NCAA develops more complete two way players.

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07-11-2011, 06:37 PM
  #52
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USHL is a good development league for NCAA.

Too bad Fogarty couldn't play for USNTDP.

My early favorite for next draft is Nicolas Kerdiles of the USNTDP.

Its too bad about Notre Dame's stance on Fogarty.

But we don't need to rush Fogarty with the amount of depth we have in the system.

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07-11-2011, 06:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
I have no issue with him playing a year of junior hockey. Just would have rather seen him in the USHL.
I could be wrong on this, but aren't the two leagues more or less comparable? I was even under the impression that the BCHL is slightly better in terms of overall talent.

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07-11-2011, 07:46 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
CCHA is a good place for him to develop as a bigger, stronger, two way player.
True it just won't be in the CCHA. Apparently now that Penn State will have a team the Big Ten schools will be forming the Big Ten hockey league in 2013. The reason is because you need 6 teams for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament and now there are 6 Big Ten schools with teams.

Notre Dame is currently being courted by both a new conference comprised of Denver, Colorado College, Nebraska-Omaha, Minnesota-Duluth and Miami (Ohio) and Hockey East.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/even...cle/id/209049/

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07-11-2011, 08:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
I could be wrong on this, but aren't the two leagues more or less comparable? I was even under the impression that the BCHL is slightly better in terms of overall talent.
They are close, and the BCHL possesses more pure talent. However, I think the USHL stresses more responsible two-way play and is a better stepping stone into NCAA hockey.

It's similar to the NCAA vs CHL debate, where there are pros and cons to each.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:57 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Kid is a big time project, and for as good a league as it is coming straight out of MN high school to D1 is no small feat. Also the BCHL is definitely a step in the right direction competition-wise IMO; not a big one sure, but not a step backwards either. Look at the success Anders Lee had in delaying a year (EDIT should have finished reading the thread, good call ocarina).

Not sure what Notre Dame's depth chart is like either; if he's going to be in the press box I would much rather have him getting good minutes in the BCHL.

If he's going to sit in the press box in UND, then he should never have been our third round pick. I would assume that our fairly early draft choice can crack a college hockey team.

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07-12-2011, 01:01 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I have always had an issue with physically developed bigger players playing in the CHL over NCAA.

To me those players are better served facing older more mature adults in NCAA hockey rather then mostly underdeveloped kids in the CHL.

Big mature players plowing through smaller players doesn't really help long term development a lot of the time. Exhibit A: Grachev.

I agree with this. The general rule for me is that it's best for smaller players to go to the CHL and play an extra 20-25 games while developing their skills against talented opposition, but bigger guys need to go play college hockey so that they aren't just plowing over 16/17 year olds who are still 140 pounds. In college, they have to face opposition players who are 18-24 years old and have developed adult bodies.

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Old
07-12-2011, 05:58 AM
  #58
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Many NHL players have played in the BCHL. The Minnesota kids have elected to forego the USHL for the BCHL. The Rangers suggested the BCHL as an alternative to the USHL. They aren't upset as was suggested in the other thread.

Quote:
I touched base with Fogarty last week who confirmed that the Rangers had expressed their desire for him to consider the WHL but suggested the BCHL if his inclination was to still pursue the NCAA route.
http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.com/...t-to-bchl.html

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07-12-2011, 07:30 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Many NHL players have played in the BCHL. The Minnesota kids have elected to forego the USHL for the BCHL. The Rangers suggested the BCHL as an alternative to the USHL. They aren't upset as was suggested in the other thread.



http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.com/...t-to-bchl.html
curious how many guys have played in the bchl or even ushl after being drafted vs before...not that it really makes a difference but just wondering how many guys were canadian that at 16 choice bchl vs chl so they could attend a us college vs americans that opted there to delay college for a year.

here are some guys listed as nhl alumni to the bchl on wikipedia...pretty decent group

Brett Hull
Glenn Anderson
Mark Recchi
Ray Ferraro
John Ogrodnick
Cliff Ronning
Geoff Courtnall
Greg Adams
Ron Greschner
Paul Kariya
Joe Murphy
Dave Williams
Bob Nystrom
Dallas Drake
Barry Beck
Doug Lidster
Eddie Johnstone
Don Murdoch
Bill Lindsay
Brendan Morrison
Scott Gomez
Jan Bulis
Bill Muckalt
Shawn Horcoff
Brad Bombardir
Willie Mitchell
Jason Krog
Jeff Tambellini
Tanner Glass
Jamie Benn
Duncan Keith
Kyle Turris

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07-12-2011, 08:15 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Id prefer Yogan not play CHL, either. Unfortunately he can't go to the AHL yet.
Actually Yogan can play in the AHL this year because of his birth date but the AHL isn't always the best option. Sometime staying in junior can make a lot of sense. That seems to be the consensus coming from the Grachev post mortem.

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07-12-2011, 08:22 AM
  #61
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minor note, if fogarty changed his mind and decides to play in the WHL he'd be teammates with felow prospect st croix

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07-12-2011, 08:26 AM
  #62
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Penticton seems to have tremendous success preparing its players to play at a high level in college programs like UND. Some strong alumns have come through the program. Also i think its a positive that you have some significant offensive talent next to him in Mario Lucia who plays wing. The two of them together should be fun to watch

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http://www.pentictonvees.ca/leagues/...d=0&page=52757

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07-12-2011, 08:26 AM
  #63
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I love the NCAA as a developmental league, but this is one of those cases where i'd almost rather see him go major junior.

Buts its entirely his decision, and I certainly understand why he wants to get a free quality education just in case things in hockey don't pan out.

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07-12-2011, 08:28 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
I could be wrong on this, but aren't the two leagues more or less comparable? I was even under the impression that the BCHL is slightly better in terms of overall talent.
Talent it is fine, as is the OJHL. I think we both feel that the USHL better prepares you for the grind of college hockey.

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Old
07-12-2011, 12:34 PM
  #65
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the bchl is a very good development league.

anyone who knows junior hockey and ncaa knows that its rare to find a kid thats can go right from high school to college d1 hockey- even kids who are high end talents.

most of incoming college frshman d1 players are 19-20.

look at a kid like erik cole. heres what he did.

went from oswego high school hockey and was drafted by tier 1 desmoines bucs in the ushl.

he went from there to clarkson u.

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07-12-2011, 03:44 PM
  #66
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BC vs BU on CBS sports at 5. Game is from Dec 3rd. Kreider had a goal and 2 assists in the game.

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07-12-2011, 04:39 PM
  #67
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90% of these players go the NCAA route so they can have the typical college life (partys, girls, freedom). The "get a good education and a good job to fall back on" mumbo is just that...mumbo. Look how many people still can't find good jobs after college these days..

Nothing wrong with that, but in my own selfish way i'd rather them focus entirely on hockey, or more hockey focused (major junior league)

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07-12-2011, 05:29 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
the bchl is a very good development league.

anyone who knows junior hockey and ncaa knows that its rare to find a kid thats can go right from high school to college d1 hockey- even kids who are high end talents.

most of incoming college frshman d1 players are 19-20.

look at a kid like erik cole. heres what he did.

went from oswego high school hockey and was drafted by tier 1 desmoines bucs in the ushl.

he went from there to clarkson u.
Kreider went straight from Andover to BC...but he's only Freddy Sjostrom, right?

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07-12-2011, 05:33 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
90% of these players go the NCAA route so they can have the typical college life (partys, girls, freedom). The "get a good education and a good job to fall back on" mumbo is just that...mumbo. Look how many people still can't find good jobs after college these days..

Nothing wrong with that, but in my own selfish way i'd rather them focus entirely on hockey, or more hockey focused (major junior league)
I don't think that's true, not in all cases.

Kreider, for example, has always been a very serious student. He wants his degree before going Pro, so he accelerated his studies to graduate next summer after his Junior season.

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07-12-2011, 06:56 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
90% of these players go the NCAA route so they can have the typical college life (partys, girls, freedom). The "get a good education and a good job to fall back on" mumbo is just that...mumbo. Look how many people still can't find good jobs after college these days..

Nothing wrong with that, but in my own selfish way i'd rather them focus entirely on hockey, or more hockey focused (major junior league)
I have several friends who play D1 hockey, and while the players are able to partake in the college lifestyle to an extent, it isn't nearly a "typical college life" in the way other students experience it. My friends aren't even in the kind of very top programs that NHL prospects are in, but their coaches are extremely demanding, and during the season, they can't get away with partying more than once a week.

Also, your point is well taken that many college grads are having trouble finding jobs. In light of that, imagine how hard it must be to get a job if you don't have a college degree. If you're somebody who isn't going to be a top player, and isn't even assured of having any kind of prolonged pro career at all, having a free college degree probably makes you feel a bit better about the fact that hockey probably won't last you very long as a career.

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Old
07-12-2011, 08:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Actually Yogan can play in the AHL this year because of his birth date but the AHL isn't always the best option. Sometime staying in junior can make a lot of sense. That seems to be the consensus coming from the Grachev post mortem.

Definitely want to see Yogan go back to juniors until he absolutely blows us away in the preseason. The only way I want him in the AHL next season is if he plays so well in September, he's one of the last cuts and is expected to play be one of the top three scorers in Hartford. Since the odds of that are rather low, he should go back to juniors and spend the whole year dominating players while sharpening his skills.

Wherever he is next season, I want him to be one of the dominant players on his team.

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07-12-2011, 08:09 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
90% of these players go the NCAA route so they can have the typical college life (partys, girls, freedom). The "get a good education and a good job to fall back on" mumbo is just that...mumbo. Look how many people still can't find good jobs after college these days..

Nothing wrong with that, but in my own selfish way i'd rather them focus entirely on hockey, or more hockey focused (major junior league)

1. There's nothing wrong with that mentality. I graduated a year earlier and always regretted it. Stay in college while you can, it's the best part of your life. And no, grad school isn't the same thing.

2. As hard as it is to find a good job with a college degree, it's that much more difficult without it.

3. NCAA is quality competition. My only problem with it is that the CHL has almost twice as many games per season. If college hockey was even 60 games a year, that route would be distinctly better than Canadian juniors.


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Old
07-12-2011, 09:35 PM
  #73
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I don't think that's true, not in all cases.

Kreider, for example, has always been a very serious student. He wants his degree before going Pro, so he accelerated his studies to graduate next summer after his Junior season.
Definitely not true in all cases and with Kreider i'd agree, since all his quotes since being drafted have been about his education. I just think the majority do go the college route to enjoy their prime partying years, as they all see growing up in media/movies/tv/friends etc.. as well as still getting a decent hockey start after being drafted.

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07-12-2011, 09:35 PM
  #74
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1. There's nothing wrong with that mentality. I graduated a year earlier and always regretted it. Stay in college while you can, it's the best part of your life. And no, grad school isn't the same thing.

2. As hard as it is to find a good job with a college degree, it's that much more difficult without it.

3. NCAA is quality competition. My own problem with CHL has almost twice as many games per season. If college hockey was even 60 games a year, that route would be distinctly better than Canadian juniors.
Agreed on all points.

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Old
07-13-2011, 03:55 AM
  #75
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I just found that on youtube:


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