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Realigned!!! [3/7 update: CHI - COL - DAL - MIN - NSH - STL - WPG; NHLPA approves]

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Old
07-12-2011, 03:58 PM
  #226
thestonedkoala
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Nashville's a stronger market than Dallas by almost any metric.

Attendance? Nashville played to 94% capacity; Dallas to 81% capacity. And it's not like you can blame ticket prices: Dallas is dead last; Nashville's 17th.
You can blame ownership issues. The Stars are up for sale.

So right now everything is murky. But you can't say the Stars are in a poor market.

All three Texas teams in the AHL are in the top 15 of attendance out of 30 teams.

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07-12-2011, 04:03 PM
  #227
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But, dammit, I want the Stars to fail!

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07-12-2011, 04:24 PM
  #228
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Well, yes, but Seattle doesn't even have an arena in the planning stages, and I really doubt a team could successfully play out of Key Arena (hockey capacity 11,000) while they got that sorted out.
There are places which have an arena and there are places which may have ownership. But you need both and that's the problem with just pointing out a place like Seattle (who lost the Sonics because of an arena issue and a city unwilling to build a new one) or Quebec (a tiny market with a possible arena but questions on both that and ownership) and leaving out a place like Houston (who has an arena but might not have the ownership group or the geography like other cities).

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07-12-2011, 04:46 PM
  #229
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I thought Quebecor was pretty well lined up as an owner?

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07-12-2011, 04:54 PM
  #230
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NHL Realignment talk - What will become of us!?

So I probably could have worked this into the Winnipeg thread but it's the offseason & I wanted to see some new blood in the topic pool...

Anyway, there's been a lot of speculation about what's going to happen with the NHL divisions &/or conferences next season.. And lucky or unlucky for us, depending on how you look at it, we'll most likely be one of the teams that feels the change the most..

So I've seen numerous artices with proposals, some good, some so-so, & some terrible, Hoenestly I havent seen one that I'm truely happy with yet..

I figured here is where we could post different proposals we've seen & discuss what we like & don't like & what would be ideal for Minnesota..

So to get things started, here's the latest:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...hl-can-realign

http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/1023559

check them out. (btw- I will make the second link an image & post it shortly)


Last edited by se7en: 07-12-2011 at 05:00 PM.
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07-12-2011, 05:01 PM
  #231
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Bottom one basically is what I would do and then cut it right down the middle for the divisions for the West. Colorado and Stays with us and we get Dallas.

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07-12-2011, 05:02 PM
  #232
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I'm not going to sugar coat it, I dont like any of the ideas in the articles I posted...

I really dont see why we can't just do:

Winnipeg to Northwest
Nashville to Southeast
Minnesota to Central

Doesn't that make everyones travel times either better or at worst, equal? (with the exception of maybe Colorado, I guess they get it a little rough with 4 Canadian teams but thats the only issue I can see...)

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07-12-2011, 05:06 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Bottom one basically is what I would do and then cut it right down the middle for the divisions for the West. Colorado and Stays with us and we get Dallas.
Wait, which one is the "bottom one" the 3rd graphic from the 2nd link?

I just want to make sure I'm with you on the one you're referring to.

Btw, I was going to take the image from the 2nd link, save it & post it as an image via tinypic but at my work tinypic freezes on me like crazy so if anyone has the time to do it quick that would be much appreciated! If not Ill do it from home tonight!


Oh & lastly, has anyone else noticed that this is like the 3rd article that puts Denver in the state of Wyoming? hahaha Geography is tough for some people..

"What!? But anyone could miss Canada on a map! All tucked away down there..." - Homer Simpson

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07-12-2011, 05:09 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Well, yes, but Seattle doesn't even have an arena in the planning stages, and I really doubt a team could successfully play out of Key Arena (hockey capacity 11,000) while they got that sorted out.
Key Arena has a slightly larger concert capacity than MTS Centre, so why can they only seat 11k for hockey when MTS seats 15k? The big issue for Seattle isn't temporary housing until a "real" arena is built, it's getting the city to agree to build one.

Houston would be perfect if there was potential ownership in the area. The arena for the Aeros has hockey capacity for 17,800 and Houston's the fourth largest city in the US. Amazingly enough, Texas is really building a sizable hockey interest. There were 3 (iirc) Texas born players picked in the draft this year.

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07-12-2011, 05:14 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Key Arena has a slightly larger concert capacity than MTS Centre, so why can they only seat 11k for hockey when MTS seats 15k? The big issue for Seattle isn't temporary housing until a "real" arena is built, it's getting the city to agree to build one.

Houston would be perfect if there was potential ownership in the area. The arena for the Aeros has hockey capacity for 17,800 and Houston's the fourth largest city in the US. Amazingly enough, Texas is really building a sizable hockey interest. There were 3 (iirc) Texas born players picked in the draft this year.
It's how Key Arena is built - in the mid-90s the Sonics renovated so that it's essentially basketball-only and the bowl goes around the court. Converting it to hockey takes away a good portion of the seats and makes others obstructed.

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07-12-2011, 05:14 PM
  #236
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Thread got moved!? That sucks... Now it's just a hodgepodge of misc. conversations again... I dont see the issue with having seperate threads for topics, in the off-season especially.. Is there really that much going on around here where a thread seperating the talk from league realignment from Winnipegs new team would be that much clutter!?

Thats my one pet peeve around here... What's with the incessive need to group topics together?

The reason I started it as a differernt thread is because there was a completely different convo going on here already... Now it's just a mess again...

oh well... not my site I guess

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07-12-2011, 05:21 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Key Arena has a slightly larger concert capacity than MTS Centre, so why can they only seat 11k for hockey when MTS seats 15k? The big issue for Seattle isn't temporary housing until a "real" arena is built, it's getting the city to agree to build one.

Houston would be perfect if there was potential ownership in the area. The arena for the Aeros has hockey capacity for 17,800 and Houston's the fourth largest city in the US. Amazingly enough, Texas is really building a sizable hockey interest. There were 3 (iirc) Texas born players picked in the draft this year.
I don't know why Key's capacity drops by 6k when they put in the ice, but I can't find a statistic that says otherwise. Considering the team will need to play somewhere for the 2012-13 season, I'd say temporary housing is definitely an issue, but you're right that getting the city to agree to an arena would be a more likely sticking point.

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07-12-2011, 05:21 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by se7en View Post
I'm not going to sugar coat it, I dont like any of the ideas in the articles I posted...

I really dont see why we can't just do:

Winnipeg to Northwest
Nashville to Southeast
Minnesota to Central

Doesn't that make everyones travel times either better or at worst, equal? (with the exception of maybe Colorado, I guess they get it a little rough with 4 Canadian teams but thats the only issue I can see...)
It works as long as Phoenix is stable and we have more clout than Dallas. They really end up getting the shaft in terms of isolation...and this comes from a Wild fan.

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07-12-2011, 05:23 PM
  #239
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Get used to the new division for 2012 guys!






(Winnipeg)
or
Just a reminder of what our division will be per our owner.

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07-12-2011, 05:30 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by se7en View Post
Thread got moved!? That sucks... Now it's just a hodgepodge of misc. conversations again... I dont see the issue with having seperate threads for topics, in the off-season especially.. Is there really that much going on around here where a thread seperating the talk from league realignment from Winnipegs new team would be that much clutter!?

Thats my one pet peeve around here... What's with the incessive need to group topics together?

The reason I started it as a differernt thread is because there was a completely different convo going on here already... Now it's just a mess again...

oh well... not my site I guess
Order is good?

I don't think it's a mess as it goes with what's being discussed. But that's just me.

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07-12-2011, 05:32 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by se7en View Post
I'm not going to sugar coat it, I dont like any of the ideas in the articles I posted...

I really dont see why we can't just do:

Winnipeg to Northwest
Nashville to Southeast
Minnesota to Central

Doesn't that make everyones travel times either better or at worst, equal? (with the exception of maybe Colorado, I guess they get it a little rough with 4 Canadian teams but thats the only issue I can see...)
Winnipeg will be in the same division as Minnesota. There is no debate.

The league has announced that there will be 4 divisions, and likely a return to division playoffs.

When planning division groupings, you have to take a few things into account. The biggest two concerns are regional rivalries and TV timeslots.

One important piece to building fan interest is rivalries. You've probably heard it a hundred times in regard to the Wild, we need a rival. To compare to football, we need to be able to get T-shirts that say "My two favorite teams are the Vikings and whoever is playing against the Packers." Rivalries increase interest. When Toronto plays against Florida, does anyone really care? When Toronto plays against Montreal, it's always a spectacle and an event to watch. However, it's hard to be rivals with some team halfway across the continent. You have to play a team a lot to develop a rivalry, and it really helps if there are people who live near you who cheer for your rival team. It strengthens the rivalry, and adds another dimension to everything around it. Winnipeg and Minnesota both currently lack any real rivals. Looking at the turnout for the draft this year, it seems quite likely that, given the chance, one would develop for these two teams that aren't really that far away from each other. Personally, I'm about two hours closer to MTS Centre than Xcel. The league will put them in the same division.

The second feature I mentioned is TV timeslots. I'm a relatively typical guy. I work a "9-5" (it's a 7:30-4:00 but you know what I mean). That means I usually try not to stay up too late on week nights so I'm not horribly tired at work the next day. Currently, the Wild play 9 games a year (22% of their away games) on the west coast. Those games usually start between 9 and 10 local time and can run 3 hours. That means that I have to stay up until midnight to watch them. That hurts TV ratings for those games because they're unnecessarily late. Now Vancouver has even more games in the central time zone, and even a few conference games in the eastern time zone (Detroit and Columbus). A 7pm game at Xcel starts at 5pm in Vancouver. If you work a 9-5 in Vancouver and have a half hour commute to and from work, you're going to miss the start of the game. It gets worse for all those games against Columbus and Detroit, the game will be half over before you even get home from work. Because of this, wherever possible, the league will keep teams in the same time zone in the same division.

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07-12-2011, 10:04 PM
  #242
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But is there any demand for hockey in Seattle? Couldn't they just drive a couple hours into Vancouver? I can't imagine there's much overlap.

I'd have to think it's Quebec City, Kansas City, Las Vegas, and Southern Ontario that would be in the running for a relocation.

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07-12-2011, 10:16 PM
  #243
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But is there any demand for hockey in Seattle? Couldn't they just drive a couple hours into Vancouver? I can't imagine there's much overlap.

I'd have to think it's Quebec City, Kansas City, Las Vegas, and Southern Ontario that would be in the running for a relocation.
I don't think that Vegas will ever get a "big 4" sport. There's just too big of issues between gambling, player distractions, and the makeup of the local population.

Hamilton, ON isn't going to get a team because both Buffalo and Toronto oppose the addition of another team to the local market. Unless you mean something else by "Southern Ontario" (I'm not terribly familiar with 'Canadian' geography...seriously, how is "Western Ontario" located a few hundred miles Southeast of Thunder Bay, ON?).

If we pretend that all areas have the same likelihood of finding willing and able owners, I would rank the odds of relocation like this:

QC > KC > Houston > Seattle > anyone I forgot to mention > Vegas > Hamilton.

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07-13-2011, 12:06 AM
  #244
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I'm really hoping that, against all odds, the Jets win their division this year, just so a "Southeast Division Champions" banner can hang from the rafters at MTS Centre.

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07-13-2011, 12:17 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by se7en View Post
So to get things started, here's the latest:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...hl-can-realign

http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/1023559

check them out. (btw- I will make the second link an image & post it shortly)
Oh man, that's some fine fish wrap they're cranking out. One idea puts all the Canadian teams in one division, all the Sunbelt teams (coast to coast) in another division, etc. I'm sure that will make travel MUCH better.

Then, in the other more widely-discussed scenario, it manages to put CAROLINA in with the Midwest. And then there's a map of Tampa Bay and Florida in the Midwest!

The posters on this board have put together much more logical alignments. If the NHL is dead set on a 4-division alignment, I think the solution is reasonably cut and dry with only a few instances of teams that could swing one way or the other:

Pacific base (6): sj, ana, la, van, edm, cal
Central base (4): min, chi, stl, dal,
Northeast base (6): tor, otw, mtl, bos, buf, pit
Atlantic base (8): nyr, nyi, nj, phi, was, car, fla, tb

Swing teams:

Phoenix- Pacific in phx/por/sea. Central in kc/hou. Northeast in que/ont.

Colorado- Would almost have to be Pacific if yotes move. If yotes stay, I could see the NHL giving them the option. Pacific seems to make the most sense. I thought I saw a blurb that management was somewhat down on the Pacific (I might be pulling this out of my arse)

Winnipeg- Almost certainly Central unless the yotes move and the Avs get irrationally p*ssy about the Pacific.

Nashville- Regardless of time zones, it still seems like this is the team that should replace ATL in the East. However, it sounds like they're a cinch to stay in the West.

Columbus- Should go to the East before Detroit imo. But it sounds like Detroit has the inside edge based on the Leipold quote. Still a possibility if NHL is willing to go 14-16

Detroit- Seem destined for the NE.

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07-13-2011, 12:34 AM
  #246
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IF playoffs go back to top 4 per division, I'm curious how everyone would feel about this proposed realignment if the Central/Midwest was one of the 8-team divisions. It turns an 8-of-15 proposition in to a 4-of-8. Not a huge difference, but it still makes playoff qualification more difficult.

I'm personally rooting for 16 in the East and 14 in the West. That way Columbus and Detroit both get their wish. And for their parting gift, it's now statistically more difficult to qualify for the playoffs. In a way, I think it kind of makes sense. It helps to even the score for having easier travel.



On a side note, I never thought it was right that the AL West only has to win a 4-team division while the NL Central has to win a 6-team.

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07-13-2011, 07:17 AM
  #247
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IF playoffs go back to top 4 per division, I'm curious how everyone would feel about this proposed realignment if the Central/Midwest was one of the 8-team divisions. It turns an 8-of-15 proposition in to a 4-of-8. Not a huge difference, but it still makes playoff qualification more difficult.

I'm personally rooting for 16 in the East and 14 in the West. That way Columbus and Detroit both get their wish. And for their parting gift, it's now statistically more difficult to qualify for the playoffs. In a way, I think it kind of makes sense. It helps to even the score for having easier travel.



On a side note, I never thought it was right that the AL West only has to win a 4-team division while the NL Central has to win a 6-team.
The only argument I can see against a 16 team East is fear of additional realignment if Phoenix survives a few more years and then is moved to QC. Otherwise I think a 16 team East makes the most sense.

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07-13-2011, 09:11 AM
  #248
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I can't see Seattle getting a team given they've got no place to house one for the time being. And unless Paul Allen or the dude from Nike suddenly decides they like hockey and want a team, I just don't see it.

With Las Vegas' current economy, you can all but rule them out of getting any professional team.

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07-13-2011, 09:43 AM
  #249
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Order is good?

I don't think it's a mess as it goes with what's being discussed. But that's just me.
Gopher, are you the kind of guy that mixes up the turkey, potatoes, corn, cranberries, stuffing, and gravy on his thanksgiving plate?

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07-13-2011, 10:37 AM
  #250
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The only argument I can see against a 16 team East is fear of additional realignment if Phoenix survives a few more years and then is moved to QC. Otherwise I think a 16 team East makes the most sense.
Phoenix won't be 'surviving' for a few more seasons. It's either they find a buyer in the next six months or they relocate. The NHL and city of Glendale can't go on like this anymore.

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