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Waiver eligibilty of Gustafsson/others?

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Old
07-13-2011, 01:27 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
I guess thats the old CBA.
I don't know if its old, but the language is exactly the same in the CBA on NHL.com

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07-13-2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
I don't know if its old, but the language is exactly the same in the CBA on NHL.com
The part Protest quoted is from the old CBA, his link directs to it ... I don't know where your section is from ... same link, old CBA.

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07-13-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
He is waiver exempt
So you guys are saying that Meltzer is incorrect?


Again, per Meltzer's blog"

"Gustafsson has played exactly 80 professional games (77 in the AHL and 3 in the NHL) and, thus, is subject to waivers this season. If Gustafsson had signed his entry level contract even a few months earlier -- when he had yet to celebrate his 21st birthday -- the games played threshold would have been 160 games."


Meltzer is a sharp cookie... This IMO only goes to stress how the CBA is difficult and how different interpretations arise, and confusion even among knowledgeable people -- of which I am not one -- happens.

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07-13-2011, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
I don't know if its old, but the language is exactly the same in the CBA on NHL.com
Its the old one, I checked. However, the source Meltzer was using is from 2009 and it has the same language. Capgeek's calculator says he's waiver exempt though.

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07-13-2011, 01:37 PM
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If I remember correctly, Meltzer has a good track record with this stuff. In the Flyers' case...depressingly good.

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07-13-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
That literally took me about 17.3 seconds. I googled "nhl cba waiver rules", and then read one paragraph. Can I be paid to work for the Flyers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
That's possible. I did only spend 17.3 seconds on it.









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07-13-2011, 01:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
The part Protest quoted is from the old CBA, his link directs to it ... I don't know where your section is from ... same link, old CBA.
http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

"For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the five (5) year exemption for an 18 year old skater and the four (4) year exemption for a 19 year old skater shall both be reduced to three (3) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old skater plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next two (2) seasons, regardless of whether the skater plays any NHL Games in either season, shall count as the second and third years toward satisfying the exemption.

For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the six (6) year exemption for an 18 year old goalie and the five (5) year exemption for a 19 year old goalie shall both be reduced to four (4) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old goalie plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next three (3) seasons, regardless of whether the goalie plays any NHL Games in any of those three (3) seasons, shall count as the next three (3) years toward satisfying the exemption.

The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is exempt from Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers.

A Player 25 years old or older who plays in one (1) or more Professional Games in any season shall be exempt from Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers for the remainder of that season.

For Players age 20 or older, Professional Games include NHL Games, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games, including but not limited to, play in European leagues when Player is on Loan to such club, and while Player is party to an SPC."

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07-13-2011, 01:40 PM
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It's a bit funny how the cba can be so confusing that even the professional teams don't have complete grasp on it. A few years ago Anton Strålman informed the Maple Leafs that he would be eligible to waivers and that if they didn't intend to have him on the roster they'd be better off trading him. They had as far as I can understand planned to have him play one more year in the AHL under the assumption that he was waiver exempt.

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07-13-2011, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post








Hey hey hey. With our team's track record with making mistakes when it comes to the CBA, technically I could be employed. In fact, my "sources" tell me that the Flyers staff only spend about 17.3 seconds reviewing contracts before they submit them to the league.

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07-13-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
That's possible. I did only spend 17.3 seconds on it.
We may have stumbled upon why the past fumblings (Pronger contract, Bartulis last year) happened...

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07-13-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

"For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the five (5) year exemption for an 18 year old skater and the four (4) year exemption for a 19 year old skater shall both be reduced to three (3) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old skater plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next two (2) seasons, regardless of whether the skater plays any NHL Games in either season, shall count as the second and third years toward satisfying the exemption.

For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the six (6) year exemption for an 18 year old goalie and the five (5) year exemption for a 19 year old goalie shall both be reduced to four (4) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old goalie plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next three (3) seasons, regardless of whether the goalie plays any NHL Games in any of those three (3) seasons, shall count as the next three (3) years toward satisfying the exemption.

The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is exempt from Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers.

A Player 25 years old or older who plays in one (1) or more Professional Games in any season shall be exempt from Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers for the remainder of that season.

For Players age 20 or older, Professional Games include NHL Games, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games, including but not limited to, play in European leagues when Player is on Loan to such club, and while Player is party to an SPC."
The table ahead of the quoted section says NHL Games, not professional games. I think thats where Meltzer stumbled.

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07-13-2011, 01:46 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
So you guys are saying that Meltzer is incorrect?


Again, per Meltzer's blog"

"Gustafsson has played exactly 80 professional games (77 in the AHL and 3 in the NHL) and, thus, is subject to waivers this season. If Gustafsson had signed his entry level contract even a few months earlier -- when he had yet to celebrate his 21st birthday -- the games played threshold would have been 160 games."


Meltzer is a sharp cookie... This IMO only goes to stress how the CBA is difficult and how different interpretations arise, and confusion even among knowledgeable people -- of which I am not one -- happens.
I trust capgeek more than I trust Meltzer when it comes to the CBA. According to the waiver calculator, he is exempt.

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07-13-2011, 01:48 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If I remember correctly, Meltzer has a good track record with this stuff. In the Flyers' case...depressingly good.
He does his homework and does it well as I see it... I think he followed up after the confusion last season and got the true gen.

... The various NHL Organizations have to be abreast to every aspect of the CBA and be certain that their collected agreement of the interpretation is correct... and then apply it to each and every player in the System to plot out all possible moves they can make down the line... To expect all interpretations to be totally correct is being naive and unreasonable as I see it and honest mistakes would have to be lived with.

I have read conflicting points of view stemming from the exact same passage of a the Current CBA numerous times....................

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07-13-2011, 01:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
The table ahead of the quoted section says NHL Games, not professional games. I think thats where Meltzer stumbled.
Yeah. Thats what I said on the 1st page. But I'm saying the language on that website is not out of date.

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07-13-2011, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
Yeah. Thats what I said on the 1st page. But I'm saying the language on that website is not out of date.
Yeah, okay.

I just looked at his link and read Waiver Draft and thought "Wrong CBA"

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07-13-2011, 01:51 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
The table ahead of the quoted section says NHL Games, not professional games. I think thats where Meltzer stumbled.
Meltzer is equating professional games to NHL games under certain age signing circumstances... and he cited where he got that.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 07-13-2011 at 01:57 PM.
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07-13-2011, 01:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
I trust capgeek more than I trust Meltzer when it comes to the CBA. According to the waiver calculator, he is exempt.
I trust the CapGeek site most times... but in all fairness they have not been totally perfect and have revised posted items in the past. I believe however that this does raise a red flag for both sides and it has to be looked into further before we can accept either 100%.

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07-13-2011, 01:56 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

"For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the five (5) year exemption for an 18 year old skater and the four (4) year exemption for a 19 year old skater shall both be reduced to three (3) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old skater plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next two (2) seasons, regardless of whether the skater plays any NHL Games in either season, shall count as the second and third years toward satisfying the exemption.

For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the six (6) year exemption for an 18 year old goalie and the five (5) year exemption for a 19 year old goalie shall both be reduced to four (4) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old goalie plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next three (3) seasons, regardless of whether the goalie plays any NHL Games in any of those three (3) seasons, shall count as the next three (3) years toward satisfying the exemption.

The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is exempt from Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers.

A Player 25 years old or older who plays in one (1) or more Professional Games in any season shall be exempt from Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers for the remainder of that season.

For Players age 20 or older, Professional Games include NHL Games, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games, including but not limited to, play in European leagues when Player is on Loan to such club, and while Player is party to an SPC."
"For Players age 20 or older, Professional Games include NHL Games, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games, including but not limited to, play in European leagues when Player is on Loan to such club, and while Player is party to an SPC.

Note:

1. For purposes of this Article, a "year" of exemption shall mean a playing
season.

2. For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his
eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 21" means a player reaching his twenty-first birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft."

He wasn't drafted, but he was 20 when he signed his contract.

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07-13-2011, 01:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Meltzer is equating professional to NHL games under certain age signing circumstances... and he cited where he got that.
Yes, its section 13.4 of the CBA, what Coppy quoted. The table is in the same section and says NHL games, for the whole table up to age 25.

And as said previously, in recent years players under similar circumstances weren't waived, Ratchuk for example.

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07-13-2011, 01:58 PM
  #45
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Looking over it now.

The Waiver part of the CBA is a convoluted disaster zone.

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07-13-2011, 02:00 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
"For Players age 20 or older, Professional Games include NHL Games, all minor league regular season and playoff games and any other professional games, including but not limited to, play in European leagues when Player is on Loan to such club, and while Player is party to an SPC.

Note:

1. For purposes of this Article, a "year" of exemption shall mean a playing
season.

2. For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his
eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 21" means a player reaching his twenty-first birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft."

He wasn't drafted, but he was 20 when he signed his contract.
I believe non drafted players fall under the draft that they would have been eligible.

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07-13-2011, 02:02 PM
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I believe non drafted players fall under the draft that they would have been eligible.
Do you know what draft year was he eligible for then? He may not be considered "20" by the CBA's standards.

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07-13-2011, 02:04 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Yes, its section 13.4 of the CBA, what Coppy quoted. The table is in the same section and says NHL games, for the whole table up to age 25.

And as said previously, in recent years players under similar circumstances weren't waived, Ratchuk for example.
Thanks... If there are accepted precedents than I feel better... That said, I hope they run it by the NHL if possible before they move him to the AHL if they choose to do so.

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07-13-2011, 02:06 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Do you know what draft year was he eligible for then? He may not be considered "20" by the CBA's standards.
Gustafsson would have been eligible for 2007 I believe. That's also the offseason he left Timra's junior system in Sweden for Northern Michigan.

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07-13-2011, 02:07 PM
  #50
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Do you know what draft year was he eligible for then? He may not be considered "20" by the CBA's standards.
Off hand I don't... need latest Excedrin to kick in before proceeding.

EDIT: ^^^^^^ Chris to the rescue... thanks.

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