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Support for the Islanders!? Vote Yes!

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Old
07-14-2011, 10:51 AM
  #76
pld459666
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I think it's sad that a NY team is struggling the way they are right now.

All of this is to be laid at the feet of the d-bag that negotiated this current lease agreement.

It's going to be a sad day for this NYR Fan to see the Islanders move.

I hate them with a passion, and I want to continue hating them for the next 30+ years.

Not only do I hope they stay, but I hope they get better.

If you want to talk about what is best for the NHL, having 3 strong and thriving NHL Franchises in the Metro area IS what is best for the NHL.

KC is not a hockey market just like Atlanta is not a hockey market just like Phoenix is not a hockey market.

NY is and when they can get out of that POS Lease Agreement and start earning at a decent rate, they can fix what ails them now.

They are on the right path in terms of team, unfortunately they need some assistance in getting on the right path in terms of the building they play in.

I'd vote yes

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07-14-2011, 10:53 AM
  #77
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JMO, but I think this referendum passes rather easily.

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07-14-2011, 11:14 AM
  #78
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JMO, but I think this referendum passes rather easily.
Me too. Just don't see the Islanders moving.

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07-14-2011, 11:19 AM
  #79
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the only problem i see with the referendum passing is the date of it. if this referendum was on the ballot on normal election day it would fare a lot better. this is up there with school board elections normal people don't ever know when they are, and tack onto that it is in the middle of the summer when people are on vacation, it will be a very low turnout for this vote. in reality the only people showing up for this are people that know the issue and won't it passed or shot down. you won't be getting the average joe there to vote and then says "oh look the islanders, they were good in the 80's, i'll vote for them"

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07-14-2011, 11:20 AM
  #80
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This will pass because people are suckers.

Wang will never pay the money back. Wait and see.
The County owns the building. 11.5% not being paid back would mean Wang defaults on a loan and the Nassau Taxpayers would own the team due to the lender seizing assets.

That would be a miracle.

The thing is, hate the Isles but remember the money coming in from all events pays the debt, employs many local people, goes to local businesses, pays local taxes and goes right to the County on top of the 11.5%.

Remove the Construction jobs, permanent jobs, revenue from concerts and events and the taxes paid by the team owner and what happens? The County has less money than they do now and taxes will go up quite a bit more.

Thanks to many parties over the last ten years, this is a no win unless we can get the yes vote. The team loves, the arena closes and all revenues die. If the team stays, all revenues pay the taxpayer back AND the money coming in for food, lodging and entertainment remain and they are far greater than the tax bill.

Wang will still own the team so you can watch us lose, spending below the cap every year because he's a cheapskate, but your taxes will be lower than if the arena closes down; this is a biblical truth.

So, we need your help. Team or no team, Nassau politicians forced us all into this dilemma. Do you want to risk taxes being a little higher potentially is it's built or a helluva lot higher if the arena closes?

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07-14-2011, 11:23 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
the only problem i see with the referendum passing is the date of it. if this referendum was on the ballot on normal election day it would fare a lot better. this is up there with school board elections normal people don't ever know when they are, and tack onto that it is in the middle of the summer when people are on vacation, it will be a very low turnout for this vote. in reality the only people showing up for this are people that know the issue and won't it passed or shot down. you won't be getting the average joe there to vote and then says "oh look the islanders, they were good in the 80's, i'll vote for them"
IMO I think the opposite is true. There are alot of people (senior citizens, generally angry people etc) who would vote NO but usually only vote on a normal voting day. In this case, with this date, they are trying to assure that Die-hard Islanders fans/union workers/those people who really want it make up a majority of the voters. There will also be those who vehemently oppose it, but IDK how strong (in numbers) they are

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07-14-2011, 11:29 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I think it's sad that a NY team is struggling the way they are right now.

All of this is to be laid at the feet of the d-bag that negotiated this current lease agreement.

It's going to be a sad day for this NYR Fan to see the Islanders move.

I hate them with a passion, and I want to continue hating them for the next 30+ years.

Not only do I hope they stay, but I hope they get better.

If you want to talk about what is best for the NHL, having 3 strong and thriving NHL Franchises in the Metro area IS what is best for the NHL.

KC is not a hockey market just like Atlanta is not a hockey market just like Phoenix is not a hockey market.

NY is and when they can get out of that POS Lease Agreement and start earning at a decent rate, they can fix what ails them now.

They are on the right path in terms of team, unfortunately they need some assistance in getting on the right path in terms of the building they play in.

I'd vote yes
Hey.....the lease agreement is over. Has been for a bit. SMG who runs the building (the obnoxious security guards who throw fans out?) used to get obnoxious percentages of revenue but they finally fixed that and Wang gets ALL parking, ticket revenue for all events, luxury boxes, etc. and pays a flat rate that is minute in comparison for the same d-bags.

The lease agreement as it stands means he's making money if the building almost sells out.

This is important because now he can survive even after repaying debt, so though he'll have less money for talent, he'll have enough to operate and then some - and then he gets cable money from Dolan, who is rooting for this to pass as well.

Just trying to correct another misconception that might be out there. SMG is a fixed problem as of now.

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Old
07-14-2011, 11:30 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ogie View Post
the only problem i see with the referendum passing is the date of it. if this referendum was on the ballot on normal election day it would fare a lot better. this is up there with school board elections normal people don't ever know when they are, and tack onto that it is in the middle of the summer when people are on vacation, it will be a very low turnout for this vote. in reality the only people showing up for this are people that know the issue and won't it passed or shot down. you won't be getting the average joe there to vote and then says "oh look the islanders, they were good in the 80's, i'll vote for them"
I'm sure that was carefully planned. They know the union workers & NYI fans are going to show up in the middle of the hot stanky summer to vote for jobs & save their team.

If it was during a November election, there'd probably be a lot more opposition. It's shady tactics for sure, but that's politics.

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Old
07-14-2011, 11:33 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Noreaster96 View Post
IMO I think the opposite is true. There are alot of people (senior citizens, generally angry people etc) who would vote NO but usually only vote on a normal voting day. In this case, with this date, they are trying to assure that Die-hard Islanders fans/union workers/those people who really want it make up a majority of the voters. There will also be those who vehemently oppose it, but IDK how strong (in numbers) they are
The heat, timing and nature of the vote assure only the most dedicated proponents or OPPONENTS show up.

So it's been low key so as to not rile up the tax base I'm sure.

Well, except for the Libertarian whacko with the fliers last week.

I've only seen online stuff, local pols lightly discussing it and the four Rangers (good to hear from Leetch and Graves - the two I could never hate) coming out to support it. Just don't rile up the Geritol crowd.

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07-14-2011, 11:55 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
I don't want the team to move simply due to the fear of those cavemen migrating over to our fanbase

Even if only one of them did it, that's one too many
This.

..and it's STUPID to want them to move.

Want them to finish 6th to last every year? yes. Move away so we don't play them anymore? **** no.

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07-14-2011, 12:17 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
The heat, timing and nature of the vote assure only the most dedicated proponents or OPPONENTS show up.

So it's been low key so as to not rile up the tax base I'm sure.

Well, except for the Libertarian whacko with the fliers last week.

I've only seen online stuff, local pols lightly discussing it and the four Rangers (good to hear from Leetch and Graves - the two I could never hate) coming out to support it. Just don't rile up the Geritol crowd.
Yup, and the sense that I've gotten is that the proponents are far more motivated (and greater in number) than the opponents.

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07-14-2011, 12:38 PM
  #87
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This shouldn't pass. Taxpayers shouldn't be picking up this tab. Unless he's handing ownership over to the taxpayers, he should pay for everything.

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07-14-2011, 01:59 PM
  #88
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Don't really care if they move.... If it as the other way around, those clowns would be praying that we get relocated.

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07-14-2011, 02:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
This shouldn't pass. Taxpayers shouldn't be picking up this tab. Unless he's handing ownership over to the taxpayers, he should pay for everything.
I thought the owner was paying for everything, that he just needed the county to issue the bonds for him that he would be paying back in full?

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07-14-2011, 02:15 PM
  #90
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I thought the owner was paying for everything, that he just needed the county to issue the bonds for him that he would be paying back in full?
Nope, taxes will be raised.

And from what i've gathered from this thread, there are two reasons that this is a positive.

1) It will help to create new jobs.

2) Our taxes will potentially go up even if this doesn't pass.

These ideas are both easily debunked as:

1) There are many other things that can be built there that would bring more, stable jobs, than a sports arena.

2) It is not a known fact that our taxes will go up if this doesn't pass. However, it is a fact that if this passes, they will go up and be used to pay for a stadium that a billionaire owner could easily fund himself.

3) There are better uses for our tax money.


I will be voting and it will be in the no column. Additionally, I would really be surprised if this passed, as there are many conservatives on long island and raising taxes to build a sports arena isn't exactly their viewpoint on things.

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Old
07-14-2011, 02:20 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Nope, taxes will be raised.

And from what i've gathered from this thread, there are two reasons that this is a positive.

1) It will help to create new jobs.

2) Our taxes will potentially go up even if this doesn't pass.

These ideas are both easily debunked as:

1) There are many other things that can be built there that would bring more, stable jobs, than a sports arena.

2) It is not a known fact that our taxes will go up if this doesn't pass. However, it is a fact that if this passes, they will go up and be used to pay for a stadium that a billionaire owner could easily fund himself.

3) There are better uses for our tax money.


I will be voting and it will be in the no column. Additionally, I would really be surprised if this passed, as there are many conservatives on long island and raising taxes to build a sports arena isn't exactly their viewpoint on things.
The great shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

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07-14-2011, 02:24 PM
  #92
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It's really depressing to see people actively rooting for a long-storied franchise like the Isles to fail.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the Rangers were doing terribly like Chicago around 1999-2006, would anyone be demanding they move?

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07-14-2011, 02:30 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Nope, taxes will be raised.

And from what i've gathered from this thread, there are two reasons that this is a positive.

1) It will help to create new jobs.

2) Our taxes will potentially go up even if this doesn't pass.

These ideas are both easily debunked as:

1) There are many other things that can be built there that would bring more, stable jobs, than a sports arena.

2) It is not a known fact that our taxes will go up if this doesn't pass. However, it is a fact that if this passes, they will go up and be used to pay for a stadium that a billionaire owner could easily fund himself.

3) There are better uses for our tax money.


I will be voting and it will be in the no column. Additionally, I would really be surprised if this passed, as there are many conservatives on long island and raising taxes to build a sports arena isn't exactly their viewpoint on things.
Id be willing to bet nothing built there would generate as much tax revenue and traffic (in the form of people not necessarily LIE traffic) in the area (leading to more income for local businesses) than a sports/entertainment venue would...Unless there were some giant mega-development (which would NEVER be allowed in the area as per how the Lighthouse got shot down). Also, how could taxes not go up if this is voted down? Unless a tenant comes in and immediately builds something even close to as good at producing tax revenue literally the instant the Islanders leave there will be a sinkhole in terms of taxes that the stadium is no longer generating (thus leading to higher taxes). $58 is the MAXIMUM that people would see as an increase in tax and that assumes pretty much they build the stadium and the Islanders and Wang vanish into thin air and they cant find shows to occupy the arena thus generating revenue

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07-14-2011, 02:40 PM
  #94
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  • The $58 property tax increase to fund the county portion of the construction is based on a $450,000 home property. The tax will reflect the value of the home and last the full 30 years of the bond.
  • The county will get 11.5 percent of all gross revenue that is made on the complex. At a minimum, the county will get $14 million a year from the Islanders if the 11.5 percent is under $14 million.
  • If the coliseum construction comes to more than the proposed $350 million, then the Islanders will pay the remaining cost.
  • The county is open to other development opportunities if the developers are ready to finance their plans and are ready to build now.
  • With a minor league ball and Islanders hockey games, the area will have year-long sporting events available as well as concerts and other entertainment events.
  • This is an investment and with any investment there are risks and the county has worked to make the risks as minimal as possible.
  • The August 1 date was a date that was picked as a general consensus as the vote is strong enough to stand on its own and allows more people able to go and vote including college students.
  • Property taxes will increase if there is no new arena due to a loss of sales tax revenue from the arena.
http://eastmeadow.patch.com/articles...s-hub-proposal

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07-14-2011, 02:55 PM
  #95
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I really don't care if the Islanders stay or leave. The Islander fans are so stupid. They complain about Cablevision getting anti-Islanders. They can't wait to drop Cablevision for Fios and don't buy or read Newsday to punish Cablevision. Those turds don't realize the Islanders cable TV contract is one of the best contracts in the NHL which Cablevision gave them. Helps make them viable.

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07-14-2011, 03:07 PM
  #96
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I really don't care if the Islanders stay or leave. The Islander fans are so stupid. They complain about Cablevision getting anti-Islanders. They can't wait to drop Cablevision for Fios and don't buy or read Newsday to punish Cablevision. Those turds don't realize the Islanders cable TV contract is one of the best contracts in the NHL which Cablevision gave them. Helps make them viable.
And making large generalizations is a sign of greater intelligence/un-turdiness?

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07-14-2011, 03:24 PM
  #97
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LOL, right. Moving them to Kansas City would be great for the league. The incompetent owner would still be there, so what about the product would change? The sweaters? They'd play in front of a full arena for one year, and if they sucked, attendance would plummet. Whereas if they became legitimately competitive, the attendance would remain good--though they'd draw well on Long Island if they became competitive, so there's no difference.

The problem with the Isles starts from the owner down. Unless he gets his **** together, they'll continue to struggle. There's nothing wrong with the market for hockey on Long Island though.
Who knows where they could move, to assume they would move to another dump like Kansas isn't fair. What if they move to Quebec? I'd the the Jets are doing pretty well off for themselves now attendance wise now that they are out of Atlanta.

You mention the jobs people will lose if they move, but what about the jobs people will get where they move to? It works both ways.

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07-14-2011, 03:28 PM
  #98
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It's really depressing to see people actively rooting for a long-storied franchise like the Isles to fail.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the Rangers were doing terribly like Chicago around 1999-2006, would anyone be demanding they move?
Its depressing seeing people want a sore thumb to continue to stay in the NHL as well and continue to hurt the league, so whats your point? Look at it from both standpoints.

Nobody cares that they suck and want them to move because of that, where are you getting this from? They make the league look terrible because they cant even come close to selling out unless its vs the Rangers and are draining money out of the league.

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07-14-2011, 03:37 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
Who knows where they could move, to assume they would move to another dump like Kansas isn't fair. What if they move to Quebec? I'd the the Jets are doing pretty well off for themselves now attendance wise now that they are out of Atlanta.

You mention the jobs people will lose if they move, but what about the jobs people will get where they move to? It works both ways.
I've yet to hear any actual discussion of Quebec getting a team. Just the Quebecois clamoring for another team.

Funny you should mention Winnipeg. The Jets originally moved because of an awful owner, mediocre product and the resulting attendance dip. The same thing the once-proud Islander franchise is going through. Winnipeg is a viable hockey market, and wouldn't have lost the team if not for a crappy owner. Long Island is a viable hockey market, and wouldn't be potentially losing a team if not for a crappy owner. See the connection? It's not the market, it's the owner that's driving the team into the ground. Let Wang move the team to KC and it will be the exact same situation as Atlanta--a city showing twice that they're not a hockey market.

As far as the jobs that would be created, you're right. But I don't care about new jobs in KC, or in Quebec, or wherever. I care about the jobs in my home county in my home state.

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07-14-2011, 05:00 PM
  #100
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It's really depressing to see people actively rooting for a long-storied franchise like the Isles to fail.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the Rangers were doing terribly like Chicago around 1999-2006, would anyone be demanding they move?
Rangers will never move though. The Isles were given years to improve and thanks to awful management, no drastic improvement has been made. Yes they have some great prospects, but they don't really have what it takes to make them significant right now. Also, along with the Rangers, the Blackhawks are an Original Six team. They would have never left the NHL either.

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