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Rangers Prospect Poll: #16

View Poll Results: Who is the #16 Rangers prospect?
Jason Wilson 1 1.79%
Mikhail Pashnin 13 23.21%
Michael St. Croix 10 17.86%
Dale Weise 12 21.43%
Shane McColgan 20 35.71%
Blake Parlett 0 0%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-14-2011, 04:08 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post
Why is there no love for Pashnin? First overall pick in the KHL Draft! Also, he had a great camp last year.
The "KHL Draft" is akin to a waiver draft. It's for junior-aged players whose rights aren't already owned by clubs. It's kind of a "meh" accomplishment.

Let him become a consistently good player in the KHL, and then maybe I'll reconsider his NHL chances.

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07-14-2011, 04:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Because him having any success in the NHL would be entirely conducive on the notion that he is a better NHL player than a KHL player. And that is a very rare thing.
from what i have read and heard is that Pashnin's game is MUCH more suited for the North American style of play. He can skate, plays positionally sound hockey, and loves to play a physical and in your face style

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07-14-2011, 04:11 PM
  #28
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honestly outside of our top 10, id be kinda surprised if any of these guys sniff an NHL game in a Rangers uniform.

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07-14-2011, 04:11 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post
Why is there no love for Pashnin? First overall pick in the KHL Draft! Also, he had a great camp last year.

If I hear one more time about Pashnin being the first overall pick in the KHL draft, my head will explode!

The KHL draft is essentially a waiver draft. Teams have their own junior teams. As you can see here, all the Russian junior teams are affiliated with adult KHL/VHL teams.

The only juniors that are subject to the KHL draft are those that adult teams leave available because they can't protect so many guys.

Even being available in the KHL draft is a bad sign. Come on, people!

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07-14-2011, 04:11 PM
  #30
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St. Croix, than McColgan, than Pashnin.

Then i'll probably eenie meenie miney mo.

add Tal Cambot.

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07-14-2011, 04:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
honestly outside of our top 10, id be kinda surprised if any of these guys sniff an NHL game in a Rangers uniform.
Weise is going to fall to #18 and he has already played games for the Rangers.

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07-14-2011, 04:12 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
honestly outside of our top 10, id be kinda surprised if any of these guys sniff an NHL game in a Rangers uniform.
Dale Weise isn't even on the board yet!

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07-14-2011, 04:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
honestly outside of our top 10, id be kinda surprised if any of these guys sniff an NHL game in a Rangers uniform.

I kind of agree, but it's not top-10, but top dozen. Our 11 and 12 are Lindberg and Kundratek. Both stand a reasonable chance of making the NHL.

Kundratek is already *almost* ready for at least part-time NHL duty. If he has a good season, he should be ready to step in for injured right-side defensemen by mid-season.

Lindberg was a second rounder who only improved since being drafted. I think he'll be one of our risers in the coming polls.

After those two, Weise has a good shot of playing, though most likely on the 4th line. [Weise was quoted as saying he thinks he'll be a 20-goal scorer in the NHL.]

All others have low odds of cracking the NHL, though St. Croix and McColgan do have excellent upside.

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07-14-2011, 04:16 PM
  #34
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how about...meaningful minutes as a Ranger. ********

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07-14-2011, 04:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
honestly outside of our top 10, id be kinda surprised if any of these guys sniff an NHL game in a Rangers uniform.
wow, lol i dont think you could be any MORE wrong with this statement.

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07-14-2011, 04:17 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
If I hear one more time about Pashnin being the first overall pick in the KHL draft, my head will explode!

The KHL draft is essentially a waiver draft. Teams have their own junior teams. As you can see here, all the Russian junior teams are affiliated with adult KHL/VHL teams.

The only juniors that are subject to the KHL draft are those that adult teams leave available because they can't protect so many guys.

Even being available in the KHL draft is a bad sign. Come on, people!
Essentially, the KHL draft is the same thing as the Rule V draft for baseball. I don't think it's a bad thing to be taken in the Rule V draft, because that means that someone thinks of you as a potential big leaguer, and that they want you to be in their organization. Pashnin going top of the draft isn't a bad thing, it just means that there were players that were valued above him that were on his previous team. It's not to diminish his game, but if a team is loaded, and has better players to protect, you're going to lose a good one every now and then. Lets just hope Pashnin falls into that group. I think he should be garnering votes at this point, but I like McColgan and St. Croix because they are boom/bust picks.

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07-14-2011, 04:18 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
I kind of agree, but it's not top-10, but top dozen. Our 11 and 12 are Lindberg and Kundratek. Both stand a reasonable chance of making the NHL.

Kundratek is already *almost* ready for at least part-time NHL duty. If he has a good season, he should be ready to step in for injured right-side defensemen by mid-season.

Lindberg was a second rounder who only improved since being drafted. I think he'll be one of our risers in the coming polls.

After those two, Weise has a good shot of playing, though most likely on the 4th line. [Weise was quoted as saying he thinks he'll be a 20-goal scorer in the NHL.]

All others have low odds of cracking the NHL, though St. Croix and McColgan do have excellent upside.
I kinda agree with you but i can definatly see one or all three of St. Croix, McColgan, and Pashnin making it to the team. But it all depends on how they continue to develop, if there are any injuries, who else we add to our prospect pool and roster.. Alot of things to consider

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07-14-2011, 04:21 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
Dale Weise isn't even on the board yet!

Weise is definitely seen as a lower prospect by the fans than by Gordie Clark.

Considering that Weise thinks he'll be a 20-goal scorer, if he sees this, he'll be upset. For a big guy who was on pace for 30+ goals both last two season in the AHL (didn't reach the plateau because of getting called up to the NHL), he should not be listed so low.

As a 21 and 22 year old over the last two seasons, he has been the Adam Graves of the AHL. He won't be nearly as good in the NHL, but assuming he doesn't stop improving at the age of only 22, he should reach the NHL and stay there for a while.

Weise will be in the NHL for a long time after we will have forgotten about half the guys we are ranking ahead of him.

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07-14-2011, 04:23 PM
  #39
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Dale Weise will be Jason Ward, if he gets the chance. 10-15 goal guy with some grit but speed issues. Good 2 way play but not standout in any way.

And Certainly not the bigger Ryan Callahan some people have wanted to call him.

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07-14-2011, 04:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dale Weise will be Jason Ward, if he gets the chance. 10-15 goal guy with some grit but speed issues. Good 2 way play but not standout in any way.

And Certainly not the bigger Ryan Callahan some people have wanted to call him.

Agreed.

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07-14-2011, 05:04 PM
  #41
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I think Dale sees a few games with the big club, I think fans got on him a little since he looked like he was still in preseason and trying to audition for a spot when he was called up. The team, especially the bottom six were clicking really well at the time and Dale stuck out a little, I think he ends up seeing around 17-25 games based on injuries and benchings.

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07-14-2011, 05:06 PM
  #42
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There is a potential 3rd line RW spot there for Dale if he earns it, I just have not seen enough to convince me he'll stand out amongst competitors Zuccarello, Thomas, and even Avery (forcing Feds to RW)

I'm not confident he's even superior to Prust right now from an offensive standpoint.

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07-14-2011, 05:08 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Dale Weise will be Jason Ward, if he gets the chance. 10-15 goal guy with some grit but speed issues. Good 2 way play but not standout in any way.

And Certainly not the bigger Ryan Callahan some people have wanted to call him.
thats what some ppl called Fritsche too...so....

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07-14-2011, 05:16 PM
  #44
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McColgan, add Stajcer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCenafearsTheRock View Post
Why is there no love for Pashnin? First overall pick in the KHL Draft! Also, he had a great camp last year.
The KHL draft is a supplemental draft, not a normal one. He did have a good camp, but that was prospect camp. He wasn't that good in the KHL, and he's also older than many other prospect. In fact, apparently the Rangers still aren't sure whether they want to sign him or not.

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07-14-2011, 09:01 PM
  #45
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We will go to the top 25. This will allow us to place all the people in the poll, plus the two goalie and the two defensemen we just drafted in the 5 and 6 rounds. I would assume those would be our picks in the remaining rounds, though who knows.

The final 5 will be called "Projects & Suspects."

Those who make it into the poll, but won win a spot in the top 25 will become "Honorable mentions." Jam is an automatic Honorable Mention because he deserves to be ranked (probable top 15, maybe top 10), but he is signed to an AHL contract only.

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07-14-2011, 10:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
We will go to the top 25. This will allow us to place all the people in the poll, plus the two goalie and the two defensemen we just drafted in the 5 and 6 rounds. I would assume those would be our picks in the remaining rounds, though who knows.

The final 5 will be called "Projects & Suspects."

Those who make it into the poll, but won win a spot in the top 25 will become "Honorable mentions." Jam is an automatic Honorable Mention because he deserves to be ranked (probable top 15, maybe top 10), but he is signed to an AHL contract only.
Now this makes me curious. In the other poll you mentioned "undrafted scrubs signed to help Hartford." I assumed this was in reference to Parlett, who was the only undrafted player added to the poll thus far.

Parlett, the undrafted scrub, first earned an AHL deal (the one that JAM is on...) and then, after playing terrific hockey in the ECHL and looking very good in the AHL, earned himself an NHL ELC.

What, then, makes JAM a top ten prospect? Why is he not an undrafted scrub? Because he posted good numbers as a 19/20-year old in the highest-scoring junior league? He looks to me like a marginal prospect. To consider him for the top ten is insanity. The guy would belong at the bottom of our prospect ranking if he were signed to an ELC. Which also makes you wonder--if he's borderline top ten in our system, why wouldn't we offer him an ELC? Hell, Tommy Grant earned an ELC! Remember Jordan Owens? Guys like JAM are literally a dime a dozen.

Honestly, the excitement over JAM is nuts. $20 says he never plays an NHL game, and is bouncing between the ECHL and AHL in 3 years.

EDIT: Should Kale Kerbashian be an automatic honorable mention? He posted nearly identical numbers in a tougher league. He's also a small UDFA, signed to an AHL deal. Why no love for Kale?


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07-14-2011, 10:26 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
Now this makes me curious. In the other poll you mentioned "undrafted scrubs signed to help Hartford." I assumed this was in reference to Parlett, who was the only undrafted player added to the poll thus far.

Parlett, the undrafted scrub, first earned an AHL deal (the one that JAM is on...) and then, after playing terrific hockey in the ECHL and looking very good in the AHL, earned himself an NHL ELC.

What, then, makes JAM a top ten prospect? Why is he not an undrafted scrub? Because he posted good numbers as a 19/20-year old in the highest-scoring junior league? He looks to me like a marginal prospect. To consider him for the top ten is insanity. The guy would belong at the bottom of our prospect ranking if he were signed to an ELC. Which also makes you wonder--if he's borderline top ten in our system, why wouldn't we offer him an ELC? Hell, Tommy Grant earned an ELC! Remember Jordan Owens? Guys like JAM are literally a dime a dozen.

Honestly, the excitement over JAM is nuts. $20 says he never plays an NHL game, and is bouncing between the ECHL and AHL in 3 years.

EDIT: Should Kale Kerbashian be an automatic honorable mention? He posted nearly identical numbers in a tougher league. He's also a small UDFA, signed to an AHL deal. Why no love for Kale?

Ok, let's make Kerbashian also an honorable mention. I didn't realize we even signed him because he played 4 games (that I missed) in Hartford and I didn't hear the announcement that we ever signed him.

I don't think JAM is a top 10, just said it was possible based on how some players become fan favorites, and top-15 is probably, not definite. Take a look at who's our last three placed prospects: all of them 3-4 round draftees, and now we are down to guys who were all drafted past top-100 and haven't turned heads since. A kid who puts up nearly 100 points when he's not an overager is worth a 5th round pick.

As far as guys like Parlett, let me put it this way. If Parlett makes it, he'll make it as a bottom defenseman guy who is a dime a dozen. If Jam makes it, it will be as a top-6 forward. Is it more likely that Parlett makes the NHL? No doubt. But his candidacy does not excite me. Looking at Jam, I would rather have his 10% chance of being a top-6 forward than Parlett's 25% chance of being a third pair defenseman.

Maybe that's why the kid wasn't signed: the odds of him actually cracking the NHL are very much against him. But I like the idea that when kids like him make it, they become real players, not marginal scrubs who fill a few minutes a game when the real players are resting.


P.S. Great job by Slats signing these guys, as well as everyone from Girardi to Gilroy, from MZA to Heineken. Some of them work out and some of them don't, but in the end we add youth without even have to use draft picks on them. Slats has been doing a much, much better job signing these guys than Neil Smith ever did.

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07-14-2011, 10:26 PM
  #48
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What, then, makes JAM a top ten prospect? Why is he not an undrafted scrub? Because he posted good numbers as a 19/20-year old in the highest-scoring junior league?
He is also under 5-10.

His numbers in the Q were good, not great, for an overager.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
P.S. Great job by Slats signing these guys, as well as everyone from Girardi to Gilroy, from MZA to Heineken. Some of them work out and some of them don't, but in the end we add youth without even have to use draft picks on them. Slats has been doing a much, much better job signing these guys than Neil Smith ever did.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.

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07-14-2011, 10:35 PM
  #49
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Also, there's less love for Kale because when he did play pro hockey, he didn't do well. He had no points in his 4 games in Hartford and he had only 3 points in 4 ECHL games in 2009-10. Not good for a 20-year-old who is supposed to be a scorer and is playing in ECHL.

He was also an overager last year in the OHL. It's not uncommon for overagers to just dominate juniors. Jam is almost a year younger than Kale and he didn't (yet) screw up in the ECHL/AHL. Kale essentially wound up back in juniors because he just couldn't hack it in the ECHL at the age of 20.

If Jam's odds of becoming a top-6 player are 10%, then Kale's - for both of the above reasons - are maybe 3%.

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07-14-2011, 10:35 PM
  #50
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Ok, let's make Kerbashian also an honorable mention. I didn't realize we even signed him because he played 4 games (that I missed) in Hartford and I didn't hear the announcement that we ever signed him.

I don't think JAM is a top 10, just said it was possible based on how some players become fan favorites, and top-15 is probably, not definite. Take a look at who's our last three placed prospects: all of them 3-4 round draftees, and now we are down to guys who were all drafted past top-100 and haven't turned heads since. A kid who puts up nearly 100 points when he's not an overager is worth a 5th round pick.

As far as guys like Parlett, let me put it this way. If Parlett makes it, he'll make it as a bottom defenseman guy who is a dime a dozen. If Jam makes it, it will be as a top-6 forward. Is it more likely that Parlett makes the NHL? No doubt. But his candidacy does not excite me. Looking at Jam, I would rather have his 10% chance of being a top-6 forward than Parlett's 25% chance of being a third pair defenseman.

Maybe that's why the kid wasn't signed: the odds of him actually cracking the NHL are very much against him. But I like the idea that when kids like him make it, they become real players, not marginal scrubs who fill a few minutes a game when the real players are resting.


P.S. Great job by Slats signing these guys, as well as everyone from Girardi to Gilroy, from MZA to Heineken. Some of them work out and some of them don't, but in the end we add youth without even have to use draft picks on them. Slats has been doing a much, much better job signing these guys than Neil Smith ever did.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like an *******, all accusatory and such. I just get frustrated when I feel like people take one look at a stat sheet and determine a guy is a fantastic prospect without knowing anything else about him. I know that's not you though, so sorry for my reaction.

Quote:
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Also, there's less love for Kale because when he did play pro hockey, he didn't do well. He had no points in his 4 games in Hartford and he had only 3 points in 4 ECHL games in 2009-10. Not good for a 20-year-old who is supposed to be a scorer and is playing in ECHL.

He was also an overager last year in the OHL. It's not uncommon for overagers to just dominate juniors. Jam is almost a year younger than Kale and he didn't (yet) screw up in the ECHL/AHL.

If Jam's odds of becoming a top-6 player are 10%, then Kale's - for both of the above reasons - are maybe 3%.
Neither of them are anything more than marginal prospects.

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