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Phillies' Baseball (MLB): Inglorious Bastardos

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Old
07-13-2011, 09:41 AM
  #76
Jester
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I was trying to figure out who had cah initials.

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07-13-2011, 04:58 PM
  #77
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Brown hits balls to the warning track every other AB. Get him a bowflex and he'll be a perennial 80 HR hitter.

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07-14-2011, 11:42 AM
  #78
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Brewers didn't feel like waiting to see what Heath Bell would go for.

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07-14-2011, 12:36 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Brewers didn't feel like waiting to see what Heath Bell would go for.

What i want to know is weather or not the brew crew are gonna pick up KROD's option. If he has something like 52 appearances, his option for 17 mill kicks in. That is alot of money especially with Fielder being a FA next year.

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07-14-2011, 12:40 PM
  #80
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What i want to know is weather or not the brew crew are gonna pick up KROD's option. If he has something like 52 appearances, his option for 17 mill kicks in. That is alot of money especially with Fielder being a FA next year.
His option is based on finishing games. If he doesn't close, it has no chance of vesting.

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07-14-2011, 12:42 PM
  #81
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His option is based on finishing games. If he doesn't close, it has no chance of vesting.
ahhh so that is the catch. Have fun being the set up guy krod.

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07-14-2011, 12:53 PM
  #82
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This is the reason I kinda wished K-Rod stayed in NY. They used him pretty often, and this could've hamstrung the Mets a bit more. Oh well.

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07-14-2011, 12:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
This is the reason I kinda wished K-Rod stayed in NY. They used him pretty often, and this could've hamstrung the Mets a bit more. Oh well.
Yeah, no way in hell were the mess going to allow that option to kick in. They are really hurting for cash. They are going to have to seriously cut back and develop a new organizational approach. They are not the team to really be worried about in the future. The team to be worried about is the Nats.

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07-14-2011, 01:00 PM
  #84
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The Braves are much more of a concern than the Nationals. Not only are the Braves really good right now, but they have a much better farm system than the Nationals and management that knows how to build winning teams.

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07-14-2011, 01:37 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
The Braves are much more of a concern than the Nationals. Not only are the Braves really good right now, but they have a much better farm system than the Nationals and management that knows how to build winning teams.

Are you kidding? The Braves have a couple of good prospects, BA just came out with midseason rankings btw. But they are not ready to compete and they dont have the deep pockets the Nats have. The Lerners, Nats owners, are rich as hell and they are serious about winiing...i.e Werth. Then you have Harper and Strasburg yet to be added to the team. Along with a full season of Zimmerman?

So potentially they could field an OF of Harper, Werth Morse

and infield of Zimmerman, Espinosa, Fielder, and that catcher they got in the Matt caps deal from Minnesota.

Then you add in Strasberg, and Zimmerman get a couple of fillers. Add in a great closer in storen. And that is an awesome team. Oh btw they just drafted Anthony Rendon who may be pro ready right now. Nats are going to be very very good. Braves are going to be losing quite a bit of talent over the next few years. Chipper, hudson, lowe.

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07-14-2011, 02:26 PM
  #86
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I don't mean to come off as a jerk, but you have no idea what you're talking about. You are way, way off. The Braves have a top 5 farm system in all of baseball. The Nationals are nowhere near that. Yes, the Nationals have Strasburg and Harper, but the Braves' system is much, much better.

Baseball America: Braves 3rd, Nationals 13th.

Keith Law: Braves 3rd, Nationals 19th.

Fangraphs: Braves 4th, Nationals 18th.

In terms of major league talent, the Braves are just as far ahead. Atlanta is a 95 win team while the Nationals will struggle to maintain a .500 record. Even if the Nationals had a better prospect pool than the Braves, which they don't, they would need a large influx of talent on the major league level just to catch the Braves, let alone leapfrog them as the biggest threat to the Phillies.

Young talent in the major league also goes to the Braves, with ease. They have one potential MVP caliber everyday player in Heyward, a potential All-Star caliber first baseman in Freddie Freeman, two potential Cy Young winning pitchers in Jurrjens and Hanson, a starter who will be at worst a #2 in Beachy, and two relievers who are already the most dominant duo in baseball in Venters and Kimbrel. That's not even including McCann who is only 27 and the second best catcher in the game.

The Nationals don't have a single guy on their current major league roster who projects to be elite at their position other than Ryan Zimmerman. Michael Morse is a 29 year old outfielder who is probably having a career year. Danny Espinosa projects to be a good but not great middle infielder. Ian Desmond had a lot of potential when he was drafted but has been dreadful on the major league level. In terms of pitching, Jordan Zimmerman looks like he's on the right track, but he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he will reach the level of Jurrjens or Hanson.

In terms of management, Frank Wren is one of the best GMs in the game, and Braves have shown the ability to field winning baseball teams with relative consistency. The Nationals have never put together anything remotely close to a good team and have made a number of puzzling baseball moves.

Sorry, but this really isn't close. The Braves have a significantly better major league team and farm system in addition to being a better managed franchise.

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07-14-2011, 02:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
I don't mean to come off as a jerk, but you have no idea what you're talking about. You are way, way off. The Braves have a top 5 farm system in all of baseball. The Nationals are nowhere near that. Yes, the Nationals have Strasburg and Harper, but the Braves' system is much, much better.

Baseball America: Braves 3rd, Nationals 13th.

Keith Law: Braves 3rd, Nationals 19th.

Fangraphs: Braves 4th, Nationals 18th.

In terms of major league talent, the Braves are just as far ahead. Atlanta is a 95 win team while the Nationals will struggle to maintain a .500 record. Even if the Nationals had a better prospect pool than the Braves, which they don't, they would need a large influx of talent on the major league level just to catch the Braves, let alone leapfrog them as the biggest threat to the Phillies.

Young talent in the major league also goes to the Braves, with ease. They have one potential MVP caliber everyday player in Heyward, a potential All-Star caliber first baseman in Freddie Freeman, two potential Cy Young winning pitchers in Jurrjens and Hanson, a starter who will be at worst a #2 in Beachy, and two relievers who are already the most dominant duo in baseball in Venters and Kimbrel. That's not even including McCann who is only 27 and the second best catcher in the game.

The Nationals don't have a single guy on their current major league roster who projects to be elite at their position other than Ryan Zimmerman. Michael Morse is a 29 year old outfielder who is probably having a career year. Danny Espinosa projects to be a good but not great middle infielder. Ian Desmond had a lot of potential when he was drafted but has been dreadful on the major league level. In terms of pitching, Jordan Zimmerman looks like he's on the right track, but he hasn't shown anything that would suggest he will reach the level of Jurrjens or Hanson.

In terms of management, Frank Wren is one of the best GMs in the game, and Braves have shown the ability to field winning baseball teams with relative consistency. The Nationals have never put together anything remotely close to a good team and have made a number of puzzling baseball moves.

Sorry, but this really isn't close. The Braves have a significantly better major league team and farm system in addition to being a better managed franchise.

As a subscriber to Baseball America, i am well aware of the Braves Minor Leaguers.


I am also aware that they still have Freeman, Minor and Kimbrel listed in there top 5. Since none of them are prospects anymore I dont consider them apart of there farm systems. Second Aj Cole, harper, SOlis, and Rendon, Matt Purke are about as good of a top 5 in baseball. I fully expect When BA's rankings to come out in the winter they will adjust these rankings according.

Second the Braves have been operating on a reduced budget ever since Ted Turner left. The braves were known for how much they spent on draft picks, but now a days they are one of the lowest spenders in the draft.

The nats are owned by one of the wealthiest families in America. They have spent the 2nd most amount of money on the draft the past 3 years and forked over a huge contract to Werth to let teams know they are serious about winning.

They will have a team consisting of.
1b FA...possibly fielder if not Morse
2b Rendon
3b zimmermann
ss. Espinosa
C. Ramos

Of Harper
Of Werth
Of Morse or FA

1. Strasberg
2. Zimmerman
3. Marquis

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07-14-2011, 03:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
As a subscriber to Baseball America, i am well aware of the Braves Minor Leaguers.
This statement is demonstrably false since you thought that the Nationals' farm system was as good or better than the Braves. It isn't, nor is it close.

Quote:
I am also aware that they still have Freeman, Minor and Kimbrel listed in there top 5. Since none of them are prospects anymore I dont consider them apart of there farm systems. Second Aj Cole, harper, SOlis, and Rendon, Matt Purke are about as good of a top 5 in baseball. I fully expect When BA's rankings to come out in the winter they will adjust these rankings according.
They will improve because they acquired another top-10 draft choice, but they won't jump ahead of the Braves.

Quote:
Second the Braves have been operating on a reduced budget ever since Ted Turner left. The braves were known for how much they spent on draft picks, but now a days they are one of the lowest spenders in the draft.
The amount of money spent on the draft is not directly related to the quality of a team's system or their ability to develop players. Some of the worst franchises in baseball are big spenders at the draft.

Quote:
They will have a team consisting of.
1b FA...possibly fielder if not Morse
2b Rendon
3b zimmermann
ss. Espinosa
C. Ramos
The Braves will be able to field an infield that is better at at least 3 of those positions.

Quote:
Of Harper
Of Werth
Of Morse or FA
I like how part of your argument is penciling in free agents who aren't even with the team yet.

Quote:
1. Strasberg
2. Zimmerman
3. Marquis
Jason Marquis? Really? This guy is the definition of mediocre and is already 32.

Stephen Strasburg has the potential to be great and challenge for Cy Youngs, but the Braves already have 2 pitchers doing that. Jurrjens very well may win it this season, and Hanson is a good bet to win one before his career is over. They also have Beachy who has front of the rotation talent, and Julio Teheran who projects to be an ace. Pitching is heavily in favor of the Braves.

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Old
07-14-2011, 03:28 PM
  #89
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First off how are u going to question me on the braves prospects when you consider them to be a top 5 farm team. Take a look at this.


1. Julio Teheran, rhp
2. Freddie Freeman, 1b
3. Randall Delgado, rhp
4. Mike Minor, lhp
5. Craig Kimbrel, rhp
6. Matt Lipka, ss
7. Arodys Vizcaino, rhp
8. Brandon Beachy, rhp
9. Brett Oberholtzer, lhp
10. J.J. Hoover, rhp



Umm looks like 4 of those guys are already with the team. 3 in the top 5. So you clearly know nothing of these "braves prospects"


2nd. The braves have bright future when it comes to pitching. Hanson, jurjjens , tehran. But so do the Nats with zimmerman, Straberg, solis, cole, and Matt Purke


3rd. The Nats have already been linked to Fielder and Pujols for this coming off Season. And considering that No team with deep pockets in baseball has any need for a 1b chances are they will land one of those two.

4th. If you believe Brandon Beachy has front of the rotation talent than im done with this Convo.

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Old
07-14-2011, 03:34 PM
  #90
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The Phillies are good. That's all I have to say. Continue gents...

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07-14-2011, 03:37 PM
  #91
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The Phillies are good. That's all I have to say. Continue gents...
Somethings just can't be debated.

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07-14-2011, 03:40 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
First off how are u going to question me on the braves prospects when you consider them to be a top 5 farm team. Take a look at this.


1. Julio Teheran, rhp
2. Freddie Freeman, 1b
3. Randall Delgado, rhp
4. Mike Minor, lhp
5. Craig Kimbrel, rhp
6. Matt Lipka, ss
7. Arodys Vizcaino, rhp
8. Brandon Beachy, rhp
9. Brett Oberholtzer, lhp
10. J.J. Hoover, rhp



Umm looks like 4 of those guys are already with the team. 3 in the top 5. So you clearly know nothing of these "braves prospects"


2nd. The braves have bright future when it comes to pitching. Hanson, jurjjens , tehran. But so do the Nats with zimmerman, Straberg, solis, cole, and Matt Purke


3rd. The Nats have already been linked to Fielder and Pujols for this coming off Season. And considering that No team with deep pockets in baseball has any need for a 1b chances are they will land one of those two.

4th. If you believe Brandon Beachy has front of the rotation talent than im done with this Convo.
The Braves have a top-5 farm system according to every single credible source for baseball prospects. Your argument is based on the fact that you have a subscription to baseball america and are predicting that Nationals are going to rise in the rankings.

Furthermore, you can't even spell the names of half of these guys, yet you expect me to believe that you know what you're talking about? Get a clue.

By the way, Brandon Beachy has a career K/9 of over 10 and a sub 3.00 xFIP at age 24. If you don't think that he has the potential to be at least a #2, then you don't know a whole lot about baseball.

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07-14-2011, 03:50 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
The Braves will be able to field an infield that is better at at least 3 of those positions.
Go on...

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07-14-2011, 03:51 PM
  #94
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A full season of Ryan Zimmerman...haha.

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07-14-2011, 03:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
The Braves have a top-5 farm system according to every single credible source for baseball prospects. Your argument is based on the fact that you have a subscription to baseball america and are predicting that Nationals are going to rise in the rankings.

Furthermore, you can't even spell the names of half of these guys, yet you expect me to believe that you know what you're talking about? Get a clue.

By the way, Brandon Beachy has a career K/9 of over 10 and a sub 3.00 xFIP at age 24. If you don't think that he has the potential to be at least a #2, then you don't know a whole lot about baseball.


First off the only credible source for Prospect info is Baseball America. Fan Graphs doesnt tell the whole story like BA does.

2nd, when one cant formulate an opinion attack semantics.

after looking at Beachy's stats , its really quite impressive actually. That is great. That is one more pitcher to add to there amazing list of prospects.

I dont know why you have a hard on for the braves. But ill leave you with this.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?...ter&id=6634020

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07-14-2011, 04:02 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
First off the only credible source for Prospect info is Baseball America. Fan Graphs doesnt tell the whole story like BA does.
That's a matter of opinion, but it's nice to know that you are the authority on the credibility of prospect analysis. I suppose Keith Law should just retire. Jtown isn't impressed.

Quote:
2nd, when one cant formulate an opinion attack semantics.
It's not irrelevant to the discussion. I challenged you on how much you knew about these prospects. You responded by repeatedly misspelling the names of more than one of them.

Quote:
I dont know why you have a hard on for the braves. But ill leave you with this.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?...ter&id=6634020
I'm not disputing that the Nationals have some good, young talent. The (big) difference between the Braves and the Nationals is that the Braves are already really good in addition to have an excellent pool of prospects. The Braves are going to be the biggest threat to the Phillies for the foreseeable future.

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07-14-2011, 04:10 PM
  #97
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That's a matter of opinion, but it's nice to know that you are the authority on the credibility of prospect analysis. I suppose Keith Law should just retire. Jtown isn't impressed.

It's not irrelevant to the discussion. I challenged you on how much you knew about these prospects. You responded by repeatedly misspelling the names of more than one of them.

I'm not disputing that the Nationals have some good, young talent. The (big) difference between the Braves and the Nationals is that the Braves are already really good in addition to have an excellent pool of prospects. The Braves are going to be the biggest threat to the Phillies for the foreseeable future.
The Braves are about as good as they will ever be right now. Still good enough to challenge us, and do damage in the playoffs with there rotation. The Nats have the potential to build a dynasty. If you lived in the D.C. area you would know how serious this team is about winning. They are willing to buy all the right parts if they have to.

If you are a phillies fan how can you give any credabiliity to Keith Law. The guy picks and chooses his favorites. If he was so knowledgeable why did he get fired by the Jays? Ive participated in his chats numerous times and the guy is so in love with himself. And about the spelling, are you serious going to chide me about spelling. Jair jurjjens, Julio Tehrean? These are atypical names my friend Im use to spelling joe and mike, does that hinder my intelligence on braves prospects? So if i was unable to spell saltalamacchia , another braves prospect at one time or Andy Marte, or Francouer, Langerhans or any number of weird names that all braves prospects seem to have would that make me any less credible?

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07-14-2011, 04:56 PM
  #98
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Why Haven't You Mentioned Sabremetrics?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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07-14-2011, 05:27 PM
  #99
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Why Haven't You Mentioned Sabremetrics?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
.....haha..ha??........

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07-14-2011, 05:40 PM
  #100
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Ha, I just saw the Clemens mistrial. I was hoping I would get to see him sweat it out and maybe even go to jail.

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