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Waiver eligibilty of Gustafsson/others?

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Old
07-14-2011, 05:02 PM
  #76
DrinkFightFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If Bartulis is waived and claimed it's still an incredibly stupid move and truly terrible asset management, regardless of if he'd be a #1 or a #5.
Why? The Flyers have at least four players that can fill the 6/7 role and bring about the same level of competency to the table (Bartulis, Gustafsson, Walker, Lilja, maybe Marshall). If the Flyers waive Bartulis and someone grabs him, it really doesn't affect the organization one way or the other. Yeah, he could be the #6 guy this year or next year or in perpetuity, but so could any other of those three guys. In a trade he'd probably bring about a 4th rounder I would guess, if that. And while that is always better than just outright losing a guy, I don't think if he is claimed then three years down the road when he is #6 on the Blue Jackets depth chart and we didn't get their fourth round pick next season we are going to be kicking ourselves.

If they lost him on re-entry waivers that would be a bummer, despite his small cap hit. But just losing him to waivers if he is outplayed by Gus, Walker, and Lilja is not a big deal.

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07-14-2011, 05:05 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Why? The Flyers have at least four players that can fill the 6/7 role and bring about the same level of competency to the table (Bartulis, Gustafsson, Walker, Lilja, maybe Marshall). If the Flyers waive Bartulis and someone grabs him, it really doesn't affect the organization one way or the other. Yeah, he could be the #6 guy this year or next year or in perpetuity, but so could any other of those three guys. In a trade he'd probably bring about a 4th rounder I would guess, if that. And while that is always better than just outright losing a guy, I don't think if he is claimed then three years down the road when he is #6 on the Blue Jackets depth chart and we didn't get their fourth round pick next season we are going to be kicking ourselves.

If they lost him on re-entry waivers that would be a bummer, despite his small cap hit. But just losing him to waivers if he is outplayed by Gus, Walker, and Lilja is not a big deal.
If he is waived and claimed we have dead cap space. That alone makes it stupid.

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07-14-2011, 05:24 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If he is waived and claimed we have dead cap space. That alone makes it stupid.
That's only on re-entry, though. If he's just waived and claimed, he no longer exists on the Flyers payroll in any way at all.

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07-14-2011, 05:29 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If he is waived and claimed we have dead cap space. That alone makes it stupid.
How do you figure that? Being waived down and claimed means nothing beyond the Flyers getting a small claiming fee IIRC and a signing spot to be able to fill... they also lose his Cap hit and gain Cap space, just as they would if he cleared waivers and went to the Phantoms.

I believe you are confusing that with re-entry waivers... unless I'm misreading your post.

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07-14-2011, 05:34 PM
  #80
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If Bart doesn't make the team, they should try and trade him for a pick... it's pretty much that simple.

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07-14-2011, 05:36 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
That's only on re-entry, though. If he's just waived and claimed, he no longer exists on the Flyers payroll in any way at all.
My guess is Homer would find him a home if possible if he is beat out... as suggested a trade for a lower pick down the line.

This could also work in Bart's favor if he is only beat out by a slight margin and Homer feels rather than chancing losing him he would just send down Gus... And would it be earth shattering if Gus got another year to hone his skills and play major minutes in the A rather than a few on the roster at best and in the press box at worst?

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07-14-2011, 05:37 PM
  #82
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My bad, I had a brain fart concerning waiver claims.

Either way, losing him and getting nothing in return remains bad asset management.

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07-14-2011, 05:44 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If Bart doesn't make the team, they should try and trade him for a pick... it's pretty much that simple.
Yeah they definitely should, but I doubt there will be any takers knowing that he will likely be waived. Then again a team may throw a 5th or 6th round pick out there to assure he is acquired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
My bad, I had a brain fart concerning waiver claims.

Either way, losing him and getting nothing in return remains bad asset management.
How do you figure? If he is not good enough to make this team and there are no takers for him in a trade, wouldn't it be bad TEAM management to keep him on the roster just to keep him? You'd rather keep Bartulis, a guy who if he's lucky will be a #5 some day in the future (not now) than have the best team possible?

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07-14-2011, 05:48 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah they definitely should, but I doubt there will be any takers knowing that he will likely be waived. Then again a team may throw a 5th or 6th round pick out there to assure he is acquired.
If you want him and the Flyers throw him out there for a trade... good reason to flip a pick. If you're not at the bottom of the waiver wire, someone is likely to grab him first... and even if you are, then there's the chance someone will trade for him first.

Who knows what will happen, but Bartulis is so cheap that I can't imagine no one would trade for him with a later pick.

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07-14-2011, 05:49 PM
  #85
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We ****ing better have him in the starting line up at the beginning of this season or **** is going to get ugly.

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07-14-2011, 05:51 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If you want him and the Flyers throw him out there for a trade... good reason to flip a pick. If you're not at the bottom of the waiver wire, someone is likely to grab him first... and even if you are, then there's the chance someone will trade for him first.

Who knows what will happen, but Bartulis is so cheap that I can't imagine no one would trade for him with a later pick.
True. I think Bartulis may be the odd man out in this situation out of camp, unless Pronger is still not healthy.

Pronger-Carle
Coburn-Timonen
Mez-Gus
Lilja/Walker

Bartulis gets the bus to ADK, maybe Walker too but I don't see a team claiming Walker, even on re-entry I don't think too many teams would be interested.

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07-14-2011, 06:02 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah they definitely should, but I doubt there will be any takers knowing that he will likely be waived. Then again a team may throw a 5th or 6th round pick out there to assure he is acquired.



How do you figure? If he is not good enough to make this team and there are no takers for him in a trade, wouldn't it be bad TEAM management to keep him on the roster just to keep him? You'd rather keep Bartulis, a guy who if he's lucky will be a #5 some day in the future (not now) than have the best team possible?
Uh, no. If you aren't going to have him on the team at this point, trade him. Get something in return. Don't just give him away.

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07-14-2011, 06:32 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Uh, no. If you aren't going to have him on the team at this point, trade him. Get something in return. Don't just give him away.
But as we have found out before, not everyone is trade-able. There are times when it is perfectly acceptable to lose someone to waivers.

If he isn't going to make the team, and his roster spot prevents us from having someone else on-call, and no one wants to trade for him, what are you supposed to do, you waive him.

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07-14-2011, 06:39 PM
  #89
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This is why the lilja signing was really dumb

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07-14-2011, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
We ****ing better have him in the starting line up at the beginning of this season or **** is going to get ugly.
It's been a month since Richards and Carter were traded.

It's time to give it up, brah.

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07-14-2011, 07:21 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by flountown View Post
But as we have found out before, not everyone is trade-able. There are times when it is perfectly acceptable to lose someone to waivers.

If he isn't going to make the team, and his roster spot prevents us from having someone else on-call, and no one wants to trade for him, what are you supposed to do, you waive him.
Thing to remember also is that any team taking him is subject to the same waiver situation... By the beginning of the season -- maybe even later if Pronger is on IR to start -- teams have had their Camps and made their base plans... To grab him they would have to place him on the roster or waive him too... and then they would have to assign one of their players to the A, keeping in mind waivers and maybe chancing losing one of their players.

His being claimed may not be such a slam dunk as we are thinking... But once down with the Phantoms there is always he concern of trying to sneak him up in a pinch. It may be better to lose him to down waivers now and be over with it... even if the return is minimal or even zero. Just a thought.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 07-14-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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07-14-2011, 10:27 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ugiswrong View Post
I just read a recent blog by Meltzer where he focuses on the language in the CBA regarding interpretation of waiver eligibility...and he concluded that Erik Gustafsson will be subject to waivers this year due to him having signed at age 21 and already having played 80 professional games (77 AHL 3 NHL)

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...tions/45/37049

Could some of the CBA geeks here review this, for lack of better word, claim? It would suck to have to decide 12 days before the season would start on who that 7th d man is going to be. If Gus and Bart are both indeed eligible, then unless we carried 8 d-men, one of them would probably fall to the waiver wire (Bart I'm guessing)

So if that is truly the case, the Flyers should have had some foresight to've avoided this blunder, and held Gustafsson to 79 games.
He was signed at 21, so he was waiver exempt for 80 professional games.

EDIT: Not at all sure of my above statement.


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07-14-2011, 10:42 PM
  #93
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"For Players age 20 or older, professional games include NHL
Regular Season games, NHL playoff games, all minor league regular
season and playoff games
and any other professional games,
including but not limited to, play in European leagues when
Player is on loan to such Club and while Player is party to a
Player Contract."


That's from http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/cba_agreement13.asp
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
That literally took me about 17.3 seconds. I googled "nhl cba waiver rules", and then read one paragraph. Can I be paid to work for the Flyers?
Someone else might have corrected you already, but that's from the CBA signed after the 1994-95 lockout.

EDIT: Yep, someone did.


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07-15-2011, 03:27 AM
  #94
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I don't particularly care if we lose bartulis. He's not in favour with the flyers and we all have our new shiney prospect in gust. I think bartulis would even clear waivers.

I'm much more interested to see what that giant dane can do on defense. He was a shot in the dark, but actually seems to be developing rapidly. Some were saying he was the best defenseman in the prospect camp. Thats encouraging.

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07-15-2011, 06:52 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I don't particularly care if we lose bartulis. He's not in favour with the flyers and we all have our new shiney prospect in gust. I think bartulis would even clear waivers.

I'm much more interested to see what that giant dane can do on defense. He was a shot in the dark, but actually seems to be developing rapidly. Some were saying he was the best defenseman in the prospect camp. Thats encouraging.
Bartulis is very much in favor of the Flyers. If he wasn't, they would have kept him around so long even before he got hurt, and they wouldn't of resigned him.

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07-15-2011, 07:48 AM
  #96
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You don't think they kept him around because he was a defenseman making 600K that could step in occasionally.

He seems like the pro-typical 7th D/ 13th forward to me.

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07-15-2011, 08:14 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You don't think they kept him around because he was a defenseman making 600K that could step in occasionally.

He seems like the pro-typical 7th D/ 13th forward to me.
A problem I see with Bart is he really never gets much playing time in and never got much developmental minutes down on the farm... and the waiver rules pretty much took care of that changing last season and this -- unless he is waived down and stays down and plays -- With five veterans set in the lineup on D there is one spot left for small minutes and prospects hoping to get shot competing with two fringe veterans... one a Cap drain and the other a specialty D-man brought in apparently for depth.

At this point I'm leaning on liking Gus to get as much time in he A this season and look for him and/or other prospect in the future... which pretty much means Bart can get spot duty on the roster if they don't keep Walker and Lilja makes the squad. I honestly don't see the /13th forward part though... But with that I don't see how Bart can progress with his play given his lack of workload and past time in the A.

It almost seems to me that but for the Cap hit it is best for the Flyers to keep Walker and Lilja on the roster and trade Bart for picks and use Gus for a depth call up if needed.

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Old
07-15-2011, 08:34 AM
  #98
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Someone else might have corrected you already, but that's from the CBA signed after the 1994-95 lockout.

EDIT: Yep, someone did.
I know I checked after someone said something, but that exact same wording is in the current CBA.

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07-15-2011, 08:37 AM
  #99
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A problem I see with Bart is he really never gets much playing time in and never got much developmental minutes down on the farm... and the waiver rules pretty much took care of that changing last season and this -- unless he is waived down and stays down and plays -- With five veterans set in the lineup on D there is one spot left for small minutes and prospects hoping to get shot competing with two fringe veterans... one a Cap drain and the other a specialty D-man brought in apparently for depth.

At this point I'm leaning on liking Gus to get as much time in he A this season and look for him and/or other prospect in the future... which pretty much means Bart can get spot duty on the roster if they don't keep Walker and Lilja makes the squad. I honestly don't see the /13th forward part though... But with that I don't see how Bart can progress with his play given his lack of workload and past time in the A.

It almost seems to me that but for the Cap hit it is best for the Flyers to keep Walker and Lilja on the roster and trade Bart for picks and use Gus for a depth call up if needed.
Lilja is a 35+ contract (which is why it was dumb to give him 2 years). He will be on the roster.

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Old
07-15-2011, 10:28 AM
  #100
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It's been a month since Richards and Carter were traded.

It's time to give it up, brah.
You wrote this on the 14th. They were traded on the 23rd so it's quite a ways off from a month even though it feels like it.

Had to laugh at the person who said he likes the Pronger contract. That was one of Homer's biggest **** ups because he thought it wouldn't qualify as a +35. Wrong-o! We're stuck with that one for a long time and if he retires the cap hit implications will be huge.

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