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Old
07-14-2011, 05:06 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
That's $2000 per average home in Nassau County.

Does that mean houses worth more than that will get taxed about the 58 or at the 58?

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07-14-2011, 05:16 PM
  #102
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It's not the market, it's the owner that's driving the team into the ground. Let Wang move the team to KC and it will be the exact same situation as Atlanta--a city showing twice that they're not a hockey market.
What measure is a hockey market then? Because that "twice-failed" location, you have to realize, had won a total of 2 playoff games from both of those franchises combined. I can't speak for the Flames as they were before my time, but the Thrashers only dipped below 15,000 average attendance three times in their existence, the last previous 3 years (read: previous 3 lottery pick seasons).

I can name the amount of teams that would do well under the Thrashers circumstances (Heatley/Snyder, owners publicly telling season holders to "deal with it" in 2008, not to mention having no interest in actually owning the team, Don Waddell's tenure as GM). NYR's one, Minnesota's the other US team, and some of the Canadian franchises might put up with it.

The city didn't show twice that they weren't a "hockey market". A quick google search reveals that the Gwinnett Gladiators (a team that actual wins) is near the top of the ECHL attendance rankings, and will probably get bigger still with the Thrashers moving. Alabama-Huntsville is a two-time division 2 NCAA champion, and just appeared in the 2010 NCAA Frozen Four tournament. You can read about Georgia's small-school hockey prestige here. Georgia-native Vinny Saponari just won the Clark Cup in the USHL, and Jan Kaminsky is a 2012 draft-eligible forward playing for the Belleville Bulls of the OHL.

If anything the owners showed they just weren't capable of managing an NHL club correctly. It's something that happened to Chicago (Dollar Bill Wirtz), Toronto (Harold Ballard), and now the Isles.

Please, go on though, tell me how Atlanta failed twice as a hockey market simply when I live here and it's still alive and possibly stronger than ever.

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07-14-2011, 05:21 PM
  #103
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After all the crap I took from Islander fans in the 80's, the ultimate win would be for the franchise to leave Long Island. However, now that they suck and I live in CA, I don't feel that passionate about it. I am old enough to remember the NY area with only one franchise. Those were the days!

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07-14-2011, 05:23 PM
  #104
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IMO I think the opposite is true. There are alot of people (senior citizens, generally angry people etc) who would vote NO but usually only vote on a normal voting day. In this case, with this date, they are trying to assure that Die-hard Islanders fans/union workers/those people who really want it make up a majority of the voters. There will also be those who vehemently oppose it, but IDK how strong (in numbers) they are
I agree, I think the unusual date will help the Isles win the vote.

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07-14-2011, 05:37 PM
  #105
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What measure is a hockey market then? Because that "twice-failed" location, you have to realize, had won a total of 2 playoff games from both of those franchises combined. I can't speak for the Flames as they were before my time, but the Thrashers only dipped below 15,000 average attendance three times in their existence, the last previous 3 years (read: previous 3 lottery pick seasons).

I can name the amount of teams that would do well under the Thrashers circumstances (Heatley/Snyder, owners publicly telling season holders to "deal with it" in 2008, not to mention having no interest in actually owning the team, Don Waddell's tenure as GM). NYR's one, Minnesota's the other US team, and some of the Canadian franchises might put up with it.

The city didn't show twice that they weren't a "hockey market". A quick google search reveals that the Gwinnett Gladiators (a team that actual wins) is near the top of the ECHL attendance rankings, and will probably get bigger still with the Thrashers moving. Alabama-Huntsville is a two-time division 2 NCAA champion, and just appeared in the 2010 NCAA Frozen Four tournament. You can read about Georgia's small-school hockey prestige here. Georgia-native Vinny Saponari just won the Clark Cup in the USHL, and Jan Kaminsky is a 2012 draft-eligible forward playing for the Belleville Bulls of the OHL.

If anything the owners showed they just weren't capable of managing an NHL club correctly. It's something that happened to Chicago (Dollar Bill Wirtz), Toronto (Harold Ballard), and now the Isles.

Please, go on though, tell me how Atlanta failed twice as a hockey market simply when I live here and it's still alive and possibly stronger than ever.
If thats the case then you guys cut off your nose to spite your face. get over it already, team is in a more deserving place. no way you could have done what they did with their ticket drive.

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07-14-2011, 05:40 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by transcend View Post
What measure is a hockey market then? Because that "twice-failed" location, you have to realize, had won a total of 2 playoff games from both of those franchises combined. I can't speak for the Flames as they were before my time, but the Thrashers only dipped below 15,000 average attendance three times in their existence, the last previous 3 years (read: previous 3 lottery pick seasons).

I can name the amount of teams that would do well under the Thrashers circumstances (Heatley/Snyder, owners publicly telling season holders to "deal with it" in 2008, not to mention having no interest in actually owning the team, Don Waddell's tenure as GM). NYR's one, Minnesota's the other US team, and some of the Canadian franchises might put up with it.

The city didn't show twice that they weren't a "hockey market". A quick google search reveals that the Gwinnett Gladiators (a team that actual wins) is near the top of the ECHL attendance rankings, and will probably get bigger still with the Thrashers moving. Alabama-Huntsville is a two-time division 2 NCAA champion, and just appeared in the 2010 NCAA Frozen Four tournament. You can read about Georgia's small-school hockey prestige here. Georgia-native Vinny Saponari just won the Clark Cup in the USHL, and Jan Kaminsky is a 2012 draft-eligible forward playing for the Belleville Bulls of the OHL.

If anything the owners showed they just weren't capable of managing an NHL club correctly. It's something that happened to Chicago (Dollar Bill Wirtz), Toronto (Harold Ballard), and now the Isles.

Please, go on though, tell me how Atlanta failed twice as a hockey market simply when I live here and it's still alive and possibly stronger than ever.
Those are valid points that I won't dispute.

Doesn't change the point of my argument though. Ownership is killing the team, not the market. So the suggestion that we let them go somewhere that will support them has no legs. Sorry for the little throw-away jab at Atlanta. Wasn't really germane to the point of my argument.

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07-14-2011, 05:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
get over it already
Get over it? I'm over it, even though obviously there's a ton in Winnipeg and Quebec that never did I just think it's stupid to think that Atlanta isn't a hockey market when that isn't the case. It's a short-sighted way of thinking- I wouldn't even be posting this if we had ownership who gave a damn, and the Isles wouldn't even be in this situation if they had someone owning the team who wasn't clinically insane.

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07-14-2011, 05:41 PM
  #108
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Nope, taxes will be raised.

And from what i've gathered from this thread, there are two reasons that this is a positive.

1) It will help to create new jobs.

2) Our taxes will potentially go up even if this doesn't pass.

These ideas are both easily debunked as:

1) There are many other things that can be built there that would bring more, stable jobs, than a sports arena.

2) It is not a known fact that our taxes will go up if this doesn't pass. However, it is a fact that if this passes, they will go up and be used to pay for a stadium that a billionaire owner could easily fund himself.

3) There are better uses for our tax money.


I will be voting and it will be in the no column. Additionally, I would really be surprised if this passed, as there are many conservatives on long island and raising taxes to build a sports arena isn't exactly their viewpoint on things.
LOL. Where do you think the lost sales tax & hotel tax revenue is going to come from if not in the form of higher property taxes? What do you think is going to be built there that will bring in that $? Another mall? Is that what LI needs? Another mall 1 mile away from a mall? I know if the Roosevelt Field Zales Jewlery doesn't have that tennis bracelet your girlfriend wants, then maybe the Uniondale Mall Zales will have one.

Enjoy your higher property taxes in a few years if you vote no. Just don't complain about it. You are voting for MUCH higher taxes. You just can't see past next april to realize this.

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07-14-2011, 05:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by transcend View Post
Get over it? I'm over it, even though obviously there's a ton in Winnipeg and Quebec that never did I just think it's stupid to think that Atlanta isn't a hockey market when that isn't the case. It's a short-sighted way of thinking- I wouldn't even be posting this if we had ownership who gave a damn, and the Isles wouldn't even be in this situation if they had someone owning the team who wasn't clinically insane.
Clearly you're not. I couldn't give two ***** about Atlanta, just like the majority of NHL fans and people in GA. I'm glad they are gone. God awful jerseys were an eye-sore.

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07-14-2011, 05:47 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
LOL. Where do you think the lost sales tax & hotel tax revenue is going to come from if not in the form of higher property taxes? What do you think is going to be built there that will bring in that $? Another mall? Is that what LI needs? Another mall 1 mile away from a mall? I know if the Roosevelt Field Zales Jewlery doesn't have that tennis bracelet your girlfriend wants, then maybe the Uniondale Mall Zales will have one.

Enjoy your higher property taxes in a few years if you vote no. Just don't complain about it. You are voting for MUCH higher taxes. You just can't see past next april to realize this.
When people like this come over to our board and post **** like this, it makes me want to vote no.
Maybe just keep it yourself, eh?

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07-14-2011, 05:48 PM
  #111
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Clearly you're not. I couldn't give two ***** about Atlanta, just like the majority of NHL fans and people in GA. I'm glad they are gone. God awful jerseys were an eye-sore.
That says a lot about your moral character.

Whatever. I'm just saying regardless of whether you vote yes or no, it's pretty much childish to actively wish for a franchise to fail and tear the hearts out of a couple thousand fans in long island.

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07-14-2011, 05:51 PM
  #112
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When people like this come over to our board and post **** like this, it makes me want to vote no.
Maybe just keep it yourself, eh?
He makes a valid point. Just because he's an Islanders fan doesn't make it less true. Maybe you should keep it to yourself?

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07-14-2011, 05:52 PM
  #113
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That says a lot about your moral character.

Whatever. I'm just saying regardless of whether you vote yes or no, it's pretty much childish to actively wish for a franchise to fail and tear the hearts out of a couple thousand fans in long island.
I couldn't care less what you think about my moral character. Enjoy next season, I know I will!

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07-14-2011, 05:53 PM
  #114
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He makes a valid point. Just because he's an Islanders fan doesn't make it less true. Maybe you should keep it to yourself?
It has more to do with his condescending tone than anything else.

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07-14-2011, 05:55 PM
  #115
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It has more to do with his condescending tone than anything else.
Like yours when you say you don't give a **** and to get over it? It's a two way street.

Everyone chill out, if the thread is bothering you then ignore it.

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07-14-2011, 05:59 PM
  #116
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Like yours when you say you don't give a **** and to get over it? It's a two way street.

Everyone chill out, if the thread is bothering you then ignore it.
The thread doesn't bother me, what bothers me is people coming over here and asking for help and then trying to talk to us like we're idiots. Then going over to their own board and referring to us all as idiots. Sorry, but that's not a way to ask for help.

Atlanta fans need to get over it, they made their own bed on that one and the deal is done. No use crying over it on a Ranger's message board.

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07-14-2011, 06:06 PM
  #117
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Clearly you're not. I couldn't give two ***** about Atlanta, just like the majority of NHL fans and people in GA. I'm glad they are gone. God awful jerseys were an eye-sore.
When you've got franchises in terrible conditions like Colorado and Dallas, it's unfortunate that the Thrashers weren't gift wrapped a few Stanley Cups, because during the small time frame they were winning, they were selling tickets. Teams like the Avs and Stars struggle to sell-out as soon as the team starts stinking. To a lesser extent, I'd add the Devils, how they have those horrible attendance numbers is beyond me.

The thrashers were scapegoated as the failures of the NHL.

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07-14-2011, 06:11 PM
  #118
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When you've got franchises in terrible conditions like Colorado and Dallas, it's unfortunate that the Thrashers weren't gift wrapped a few Stanley Cups, because during the small time frame they were winning, they were selling tickets. Teams like the Avs and Stars struggle to sell-out as soon as the team starts stinking. To a lesser extent, I'd add the Devils, how they have those horrible attendance numbers is beyond me.
The Thrashers were scapegoated as failures of the NHL.
They were hardly "scapegoated". They didn't have an owner that was willing or able to absorb the losses of a poor drawing, mediocre team, in a non-traditional hockey market.

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07-14-2011, 06:16 PM
  #119
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The thread doesn't bother me, what bothers me is people coming over here and asking for help and then trying to talk to us like we're idiots. Then going over to their own board and referring to us all as idiots. Sorry, but that's not a way to ask for help.

The irony physically hurts. It really does.

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Atlanta fans need to get over it, they made their own bed on that one and the deal is done.
Do you research anything you say? Because I recommend Google, it works wonders.

The ownership group started to look for buyers in 2005- less than a year after they purchased the team. Dany Heatley killed his teammate in a car crash, and the city was willing to embrace him regardless- instead he demanded his release (which you can't even do) then demanded a trade. This same ownership group specifically went to GM Don Waddell and told him to go after older, european players in free agency to cut costs. They let Marc Savard walk and signed Steve Rucchin as a replacement for more money than Savard even requested. After 07-08, where in an open hall meeting Bruce Levenson told a STH to "deal with it", they had nothing to show for the Heatley trade nor Marian Hossa, not to mention the hundreds of draft gaffes made.

And you want to blame the fans for "making their own bed"? I'm not crying on your message board as trying to say, "I know that's popular opinion, but it isn't true." And right now you're plugging your ears and going "NANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".

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07-14-2011, 06:22 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by transcend View Post

The irony physically hurts. It really does.


Do you research anything you say? Because I recommend Google, it works wonders.

The ownership group started to look for buyers in 2005- less than a year after they purchased the team. Dany Heatley killed his teammate in a car crash, and the city was willing to embrace him regardless- instead he demanded his release (which you can't even do) then demanded a trade. This same ownership group specifically went to GM Don Waddell and told him to go after older, european players in free agency to cut costs. They let Marc Savard walk and signed Steve Rucchin as a replacement for more money than Savard even requested. After 07-08, where in an open hall meeting Bruce Levenson told a STH to "deal with it", they had nothing to show for the Heatley trade nor Marian Hossa, not to mention the hundreds of draft gaffes made.

And you want to blame the fans for "making their own bed"? I'm not crying on your message board as trying to say, "I know that's popular opinion, but it isn't true." And right now you're plugging your ears and going "NANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".
I'm familiar with the whole situation. My opinion is that the onus was on the fans just as much as the ownership. What did you think was going to happen? An ownership that didn't want the team was going to pour more money into it when nobody was showing up to the games?
Team is in a place now that bad or good is going to be sold out every night. And good for that and for the league.

there is a very vocal minority who try to convince themselves that everything was fine but as far as I'm concerned, they've done nothing to prove that Atlanta is not only not a hockey market, but a sports market in general outside of college football.


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07-14-2011, 06:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
He makes a valid point. Just because he's an Islanders fan doesn't make it less true. Maybe you should keep it to yourself?
I understand his point and it is intriguing to consider. But his tone was unnecessary, specifically when i used no such tone in any of my posts.

When you're a guest on another board you shouldn't act like a jerk (edit: sorry.)

Now, referring to his last post, I'm unsure what they will build, but it is MY PERSONAL OPINION that our taxes can be used to create more jobs in a different atmosphere than in giving my hard earned money to a billionaire who can simply foot the bill himself.

Am i going to get a discount when i go to the games after this renovation? Am i going to get free parking? What is the benefit for myself and others that have to pay this man to build an arena for his toys.

I find it completely unfair and this is a prime example of how the rich continuously milk the government and it's citizens.

Once again, this is my opinion. People are fine to disagree with it, but if you are going to, there is no need to get snippy.

Just to note, i don't have a girlfriend and i likely wouldn't buy her bracelets if i did

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07-14-2011, 06:41 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
I understand his point and it is intriguing to consider. But his tone was unnecessary, specifically when i used no such tone in any of my posts.

When you're a guest on another board you shouldn't act like a dick.

Now, referring to his last post, I'm unsure what they will build, but it is MY PERSONAL OPINION that our taxes can be used to create more jobs in a different atmosphere than in giving my hard earned money to a billionaire who can simply foot the bill himself.

Am i going to get a discount when i go to the games after this renovation? Am i going to get free parking? What is the benefit for myself and others that have to pay this man to build an arena for his toys.

I find it completely unfair and this is a prime example of how the rich continuously milk the government and it's citizens.

Once again, this is my opinion. People are fine to disagree with it, but if you are going to, there is no need to get snippy.

Just to note, i don't have a girlfriend and i likely wouldn't buy her bracelets if i did
This is pretty much all I was saying as well.
I'm 100% for the Isles staying. It means nothing because I'm not a Nassau resident. People have valid points on either side and you catch more flies with honey, yeah?

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07-14-2011, 06:45 PM
  #123
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So, what's the word? Will this thing pass?

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07-14-2011, 06:46 PM
  #124
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I, for one, do not wish to cause dissent among the ranks of the Rangers faithful. I will take my leave from this thread (unless someone has a question for me). Regardless, I will leave with this...

I truly believe that the project as drawn up is economically viable (and even profitable in the long term). I also believe that taxes will be higher if this is voted down. That being said, all I can ask is that you attend meetings on the project if you live in Nassau County to get the full story with regards to the project (if nothing else to become more educated voters if you plan on doing so in the election).

After listening to arguments from both sides) vote as you please (I of course would prefer you to vote yes, but that is not up to me haha). Voting simply out of spite is not a good idea and those of the younger generation may not know the rivalry's greatness (As I do not since I became a fan in the late 90's) know that it can be great again if the Islanders are able to stay.

Regardless, I wish you guys the best of luck and I can't wait to see both teams square off on the ice (hopefully for longer than the next four years)

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07-14-2011, 06:49 PM
  #125
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For the record, if i didn't have to pay a cent, i'd certainly want the islanders to stay on L.I.

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