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J.T. Miller has Change of Heart, Going to OHL not NCAA

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Old
07-14-2011, 07:00 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by petejudge View Post
for guys who need a few years of development the ncaa is definitely the better route. miller is a guy who sees himself, and who the rangers see as being a guy who could be playing in the nhl in a year or two. the ohl is perfect for getting these guys getting nhl-talent players ready to play at the next level. i could see him doing a year in plymouth, a year in hartford, and then being up with the rangers. things would be much stickier if he committed to UND and then wanted to bail after a year with only 45 games of non-high school competition under his belt.

i'm not putting down ncaa hockey, but it makes complete sense why they would want him to make this move.
He played in the USHL with the USNTDP.

They play games against D1 NCAA teams. And also play in international tournaments like the U-18 WJC against the top players in the world for the age bracket.

He's had considerable competition thus far in his career.

Now, instead of playing against the 20-23 year olds he was developing for, he will be playing against 16-18 year olds, most of which he will be bigger and stronger then.

Just do not see the OHL as a good fit for players that are physically mature.

Luckily Miller is an accomplished two way player already so he wont have to worry about missing that part of his development.

And they better not dick him around in Plymouth on the third line.

He had a big role waiting for him at UND as a top player.

Hate this decision. But hopefully the Rangers know what they're getting Miller into.

They could have left it alone and allowed him to develop as the player he is, which is a two way, playmaking center.

Will he even play center in Plymouth? Will he get top line minutes like he was basically guaranteed at UND?

Will they put an emphasis on developing a complete game? Or sacrifice responsibility for run and gun offense? The likes of which destroyed Grachev's development.

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07-14-2011, 07:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Dakota Sioux View Post
No doubt. UND knows how to get guys ready for the next level. They have been doing it for years. They play a pro style of hockey and are probably the most physical team in all of college hockey. BC is far from that.
The programs are different but BC is top notch too. Kreider started as an 18 year old there and he had a lot to learn and one of the things to learn was there was more to the game than just scoring goals.

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07-14-2011, 07:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
He's going to get the same thing in Plymouth.

You mean he better not be dicked around how like Krieder has been his first two years in the NCAA?

Great decision by him and the Rangers.
At UND he was guaranteed top minutes and a top role. Against 20-23 year olds.

At Plymouth? Against 16-19 year olds? Any guarantee of what his role will be?

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07-14-2011, 07:09 PM
  #54
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I agree with whatever the Rangers want for him. Some of you guys are making this seem black and white, one clear right answer and one clear wrong answer. I'm sure they know what they are doing. I think some of you are thinking too much about what happened with Grachev.

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07-14-2011, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The programs are different but BC is top notch too. Kreider started as an 18 year old there and he had a lot to learn and one of the things to learn was there was more to the game than just scoring goals.
Well Kreider had to develop a two way game, which is why the NCAA was a great fit. Now he's a legitimate two way player.

Miller, luckily already is a two way, playmaking center.

But im still concerned he wont be used like he would've at UND and he wont be able to focus on continuing to develop as a two way player.

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07-14-2011, 07:12 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The programs are different but BC is top notch too. Kreider started as an 18 year old there and he had a lot to learn and one of the things to learn was there was more to the game than just scoring goals.
Not taking anything away from BC. Hell they have had the Siouxs number lately but they play 2 different styles of hockey.

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07-14-2011, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
At UND he was guaranteed top minutes and a top role. Against 20-23 year olds.

At Plymouth? Against 16-19 year olds? Any guarantee of what his role will be?
I can picture the people sharpening their pitchforks if Stefan Noesen, a player picked 6 spots lower outscores Miller next season.

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07-14-2011, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
At UND he was guaranteed top minutes and a top role. Against 20-23 year olds.

At Plymouth? Against 16-19 year olds? Any guarantee of what his role will be?
Why would the Rangers send him to Plymouth if he wasn't going
to be counted on as 'the guy'. There is about as much certainty of him playing top minutes on Plymouth as there was for
him at UND.

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07-14-2011, 07:15 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Stepan Up View Post
I agree with whatever the Rangers want for him. Some of you guys are making this seem black and white, one clear right answer and one clear wrong answer. I'm sure they know what they are doing. I think some of you are thinking too much about what happened with Grachev.
Valid concerns, though.

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07-14-2011, 07:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He played in the USHL with the USNTDP.

They play games against D1 NCAA teams. And also play in international tournaments like the U-18 WJC against the top players in the world for the age bracket.

He's had considerable competition thus far in his career.

Now, instead of playing against the 20-23 year olds he was developing for, he will be playing against 16-18 year olds, most of which he will be bigger and stronger then.

Just do not see the OHL as a good fit for players that are physically mature.

Luckily Miller is an accomplished two way player already so he wont have to worry about missing that part of his development.

And they better not dick him around in Plymouth on the third line.

He had a big role waiting for him at UND as a top player.

Hate this decision. But hopefully the Rangers know what they're getting Miller into.

They could have left it alone and allowed him to develop as the player he is, which is a two way, playmaking center.

Will he even play center in Plymouth? Will he get top line minutes like he was basically guaranteed at UND?

Will they put an emphasis on developing a complete game? Or sacrifice responsibility for run and gun offense? The likes of which destroyed Grachev's development.
Where is the 16-18 year old number coming from in the OHL?

There are barely any 16 year olds and majority are 18-20 year olds.

And NCAA is majority 18-22 year olds, where is the 20-23 number coming from?

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07-14-2011, 07:17 PM
  #61
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i'm sure if he's got the talent and size to play top 6 minutes at UND he's going to be playing top 6 minutes at plymouth

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07-14-2011, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Why would the Rangers send him to Plymouth if he wasn't going
to be counted on as 'the guy'. There is about as much certainty of him playing top minutes on Plymouth as there was for
him at UND.
We will see.

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07-14-2011, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
We will see.
I don't get where your doubts oftjis are coming from?

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07-14-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
I don't get where your doubts oftjis are coming from?
They aren't just my doubts. Look at the whole thread.

There are quite a few people who know their stuff that have the same concerns.

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07-14-2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
They aren't just my doubts. Look at the whole thread.

There are quite a few people who know their stuff that have the same concerns.
Your doubts are about his role... The other doubts are about development path, not really the same.

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07-14-2011, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Your doubts are about his role... The other doubts are about development path, not really the same.
No mine are about his development path, and role on the team is a big part if it.

At UND, big role, team with emphasis on paying a two way game. Older, mature competition.

Plymouth? Role? Emphasis on two way game? And will the talent be there for him to play with as a playmaking center?

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07-14-2011, 07:42 PM
  #67
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Again what I think is lost in all of this and I mentioned it before is the world class facilities he would of had at UND. You would be hard to find a better place to develop a player off the ice than you would find at the Ralph Englestad Arena. There were no corners cut when that place was built 10 years ago. Top notch strength and conditioning trainers to boot. That and playing in front of 12,000 rabid fans aint a bad thing either.

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07-14-2011, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
No mine are about his development path, and role on the team is a big part if it.

At UND, big role, team with emphasis on paying a two way game. Older, mature competition.

Plymouth? Role? Emphasis on two way game?
Man, i've seen you question whether he was going to get top
minutes, again, I ask why would
the Rangers push for him to
go there if Plymouth wasn't
going use him the rangers want them
too...


And from what i've read, his 2-way game is solid, I think the OHL with it's 70+ game schedule would be good for him to further develope
his offensive side ( though, was never against UND)

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07-14-2011, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Man, i've seen you question whether he was going to get top
minutes, again, I ask why would
the Rangers push for him to
go there if Plymouth wasn't
going use him the rangers want them
too...


And from what i've read, his 2-way game is solid, I think the OHL with it's 70+ game schedule would be good for him to further develope
his offensive side ( though, was never against UND)
I hope it works out.

I don't know if the Rangers know what his role will be or if they just wanted him in the CHL.

UND is a great hockey program. So, deterring him from UND they better know what his role will be.

And yes, you are right, he is a very good two way player. So hopefully he can strengthen that also. Not just the offense. I don't want him wasting a year not paying attention to what makes him, him. Two way, playmaking center, with grit.

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07-14-2011, 07:59 PM
  #70
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Hope this works out. We have to figure the organization has done their due diligence on this matter. I hope they learned from the Grachev mistake.

I would expect an announcement regarding him being signed to an ELC soon.

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07-14-2011, 08:30 PM
  #71
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Honestly, I see both points of view here. To a certain extent, I think it really depends on what the Rangers want him to focus on and what the team's relationship may be with both the UND and Plymouth coaching staffs.

Something that hasn't been brought up: my sense is that J.T. is all about hockey, hockey and nothing but hockey. If you go the NCAA route, you're a student as well - regardless of how much some players (and boosters) would prefer that not to be the case. That means going to class, taking exams and studying - in other words, doing things other than hockey.

Now, I personally value a college education, but if the kid is all about advancing into pro hockey absolutely as quickly as possible and is looking forward to doing nothing but practice, lift, and study game film, with a goal of being in the AHL (at a minimum) next year, I can see why he/the Rangers made the decision they did.

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07-14-2011, 09:03 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
Usually most will agree. OHL is definitely the way to go IMO rather then the NCAA where it takes longer to develop since you usually dont start off your first year getting much ice time, and there is far fewer games.

I'd prefer the NCAA to the QMJHL though.
That's laughably untrue.

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07-14-2011, 09:05 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
He's going to get the same thing in Plymouth.

You mean he better not be dicked around how like Krieder has been his first two years in the NCAA?

Great decision by him and the Rangers.
Because all NCAA programs are the same.

ND has a great coach and a long history of developmental successes.

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07-14-2011, 09:05 PM
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That's laughably untrue.
Really? Go ask Kreider. Or ask someone who knows something about the NCAA since obviously you dont have much of a clue.

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07-14-2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
Where is the 16-18 year old number coming from in the OHL?

There are barely any 16 year olds and majority are 18-20 year olds.

And NCAA is majority 18-22 year olds, where is the 20-23 number coming from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
He's going to get the same thing in Plymouth.

You mean he better not be dicked around how like Krieder has been his first two years in the NCAA?

Great decision by him and the Rangers.
This shows just how little you know about the NCAA. There have been players upwards of 25 years old in the NCAA (a lot of guys go the BCHL/USHL route and turn freshman at the age of 20 or 21 even).

The age in the NCAA tends to skew much further towards 21+ than it does in the CHL where it tends to skew much further towards 18 and 19. CHL teams can only have two overagers on their team at any time.

Players in the NHL are MUCH more physically mature than they are in the CHL. Bigger, stronger and tougher competition in regards to the physical nature of the game.

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