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07-14-2011, 05:49 PM
  #101
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Ha, I just saw the Clemens mistrial. I was hoping I would get to see him sweat it out and maybe even go to jail.
I'd rather talk about the egregious waste of public funds on the whole thing to begin with... and the fact that the prosecutors IMMEDIATELY caused a mistrial.

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07-14-2011, 09:44 PM
  #102
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I'd rather talk about the egregious waste of public funds on the whole thing to begin with... and the fact that the prosecutors IMMEDIATELY caused a mistrial.
Yea, its a complete waste of money. Just let the era pass and judge them against themselves. Its like a witch hunt going after these guys.

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07-14-2011, 10:36 PM
  #103
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edit: nevermind, the url is blocked

it was a funny picture though.

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07-15-2011, 12:45 AM
  #104
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If Amaro wants Pence, he's going to have to send Cosart and/or Singleton as part of the package going the other way. Then again, this is Ed Wade we're dealing with in Houston, so there's always the possibility he could be enticed with a far crappier deal. I like Pence and think he'd be a worthwhile addition because of his talent (at the plate and in the field), age, and the fact that he'd be under team control for the next two seasons (even though his salary will continue to balloon). However, someone like Michael Cuddyer could be had for cheaper and is a free agent at the end of this season, thus giving the Phillies some extra financial flexibility (especially with the departures of Ibanez and Lidge freeing up, what, $25 million?) should they choose not to retain him. Another name to remember: Reed Johnson. He's having an impressive (yet fluky) year at the plate, but he won't continue at his current .900 OPS clip. Most importantly, though, he could probably be had for basically nothing.

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07-15-2011, 06:23 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'd rather talk about the egregious waste of public funds on the whole thing to begin with... and the fact that the prosecutors IMMEDIATELY caused a mistrial.
Eh, I don't think it is an egregious waste of public funds. He is accused of breaking the law. If you break the law you should be prosecuted. They are probably going at it a lot harder than with other defendants, but that happens in any case with a big name guy. Also, if it was someone else, they likely would have plead to something different.

The mistrial was likely caused on purpose so that they could try to get the excluded evidence in when they re-try him. Or it was a genuine mistake that could wind up benefiting them in the end.

I just generally don't like Clemens and was looking forward to him getting boned.

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07-15-2011, 07:07 AM
  #106
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Eh, I don't think it is an egregious waste of public funds. He is accused of breaking the law. If you break the law you should be prosecuted. They are probably going at it a lot harder than with other defendants, but that happens in any case with a big name guy. Also, if it was someone else, they likely would have plead to something different.

The mistrial was likely caused on purpose so that they could try to get the excluded evidence in when they re-try him. Or it was a genuine mistake that could wind up benefiting them in the end.

I just generally don't like Clemens and was looking forward to him getting boned.
1. There never should have been a congressional hearing.

2. There never should have been years (YEARS) of public resources put into whether or not baseball players did steroids with all the other *ing problems that we have.

3. "I don't like him" is the definition of a juvenile justification for all of this.

4. If they wasted all that tax payer money to get a mistrial in two days they should be immediately fired. Do you know what the evidence is? They talked about his teammates that did steroids (trying to establish guilt by association) and that Pettite told his wife that Clemens did steroids. If they can't prove their case without that, which they were SPECIFICALLY told not to talk about then they don't have a case.

None of those guys should have been brought to a public hearing and put in a position where they either lied, or were made to look a fool like McGwire. It's a pathetic overuse of congressional power, and the fact that they've continued to waste my tax dollars on this is shameful.

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07-15-2011, 07:11 AM
  #107
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1. There never should have been a congressional hearing.

2. There never should have been years (YEARS) of public resources put into whether or not baseball players did steroids with all the other *ing problems that we have.

3. "I don't like him" is the definition of a juvenile justification for all of this.

4. If they wasted all that tax payer money to get a mistrial in two days they should be immediately fired. Do you know what the evidence is? They talked about his teammates that did steroids (trying to establish guilt by association) and that Pettite told his wife that Clemens did steroids. If they can't prove their case without that, which they were SPECIFICALLY told not to talk about then they don't have a case.

None of those guys should have been brought to a public hearing and put in a position where they either lied, or were made to look a fool like McGwire. It's a pathetic overuse of congressional power, and the fact that they've continued to waste my tax dollars on this is shameful.
This. Tax money wasted on a stupid congressional hearing and now the mistrial. That money could have gone to my college tuition which just went up something like 4000 bucks..

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07-15-2011, 08:59 AM
  #108
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This. Tax money wasted on a stupid congressional hearing and now the mistrial. That money could have gone to my college tuition which just went up something like 4000 bucks..
yup, I don't care enough about random people who may or may not have "cheated" in a ****ing sport, nor should our government. I understand the seriousness of lying under oath to the extent that he did, but he should never have been put into that place to do so IMO. Our country has much, much more pressing needs than trying to figure out who poked who with freak'n needles.

He, and many others are already guilty in the court of public opinion anyways, good riddance.

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07-15-2011, 09:19 AM
  #109
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yup, I don't care enough about random people who may or may not have "cheated" in a ****ing sport, nor should our government. I understand the seriousness of lying under oath to the extent that he did, but he should never have been put into that place to do so IMO. Our country has much, much more pressing needs than trying to figure out who poked who with freak'n needles.

He, and many others are already guilty in the court of public opinion anyways, good riddance.
You're right. This money would better be spent on the war against marijuana. It's such a detriment to society!


The government's ****ing obsession with giving drug companies their money and wasting ours...

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07-15-2011, 09:33 AM
  #110
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You're right. This money would better be spent on the war against marijuana. It's such a detriment to society!


The government's ****ing obsession with giving drug companies their money and wasting ours...
touché, don't even get me started on that epic failure of a drain on the economy.


In other news don't the Phils start a series against a certain disliked team tonight? Hopefully wen can win this series and hope that washington gives atlanta a tough few games.

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07-15-2011, 09:46 AM
  #111
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You're right. This money would better be spent on the war against marijuana. It's such a detriment to society!


The government's ****ing obsession with giving drug companies their money and wasting ours...
The message from Washington is crystal clear. I don't know why people don't get it.

Bankers, war profiteering, the super rich, wall street >>>>> everyone else

One of the biggest industries in the US right now is the Prison Industry. People on the MJ charges and other crap are being put in jail and forced to work as cheap labor. I read (don't know how true) that 1/5 of all construction right now in the US is to build prisons. That's insane.

Washington wants to break teachers unions but tax cuts for the richest 5% are off the table.

They want to completely remove all funding for NASA but they refuse to cut defense spending (the US spends more in Afghanastan in 4 days then NASA's yearly budget).

The US Defense budget is 5x higher then China (next highest) and higher then the People's Republic of China, France, United Kingdom, Russia, Japan, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Italy, India, Brazil, South Korea, Canada, Australia, Spain, United Arab Emirates, Turkey, Israel, Netherlands, Greece and Colombia COMBINED (next 20 after the US).

Oh, and technically the last war the United States was ever in was World War II. Everything since has been a "military engagement".

Next to go is Medicare and benefits for the citizens of this country because we need to buy guns. Lots of them.

Oh, and we are $13,000,000,000,000 in debt.

GO USA!

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Old
07-15-2011, 03:13 PM
  #112
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Buster Olney says the Phils are front runners to land Heath Bell or Mike Adams from San Diego. Maybe Amaro will go after Ludwick too

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Old
07-15-2011, 03:28 PM
  #113
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Buster Olney says the Phils are front runners to land Heath Bell or Mike Adams from San Diego. Maybe Amaro will go after Ludwick too
Really? I mean I wouldn't mind some help on the back end but I thought a right handed power bat was far and away our biggest priority.

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Old
07-15-2011, 03:32 PM
  #114
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Really? I mean I wouldn't mind some help on the back end but I thought a right handed power bat was far and away our biggest priority.
Given that we have arms coming back soon (in theory)? Yeah, would agree.

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07-15-2011, 03:36 PM
  #115
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On the other hand, Mike Adams is filthy. Maybe they're looking at pitching because they can't reasonably obtain a bat.

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07-15-2011, 03:52 PM
  #116
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I'd much rather get a right hander who can hit than a relief pitchers. When healthy, the back of our bullpen is pretty good.

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07-15-2011, 05:05 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1. There never should have been a congressional hearing.
That's just an opinion. There are likely just as many people on the other side of the fence on that topic.

Quote:
2. There never should have been years (YEARS) of public resources put into whether or not baseball players did steroids with all the other *ing problems that we have.
Again, opinion.

Quote:
3. "I don't like him" is the definition of a juvenile justification for all of this.
I'm sure that is not the government's justification for the trial. I was simply stating that I don't like him. I'm not saying they should do anything because of that, just that I was hoping he would get busted.

Quote:
4. If they wasted all that tax payer money to get a mistrial in two days they should be immediately fired. Do you know what the evidence is? They talked about his teammates that did steroids (trying to establish guilt by association) and that Pettite told his wife that Clemens did steroids. If they can't prove their case without that, which they were SPECIFICALLY told not to talk about then they don't have a case.
If they botched this trial and just ignored the judge, then yes I agree that they should be fired. But my guess is that they did it on purpose so they could get a new trial and attempt to get the evidence in. When you're trying a case you don't know what evidence will be allowed in until either the trial or if there are other motions prior to trial. You bring the charges or other lawsuit with the evidence you have. During the pre-trial stage or trial evidence is objected to and motions are file to keep evidence out. You can't really fault them for bringing the charges and going after him because certain evidence got excluded. They didn't know it would be excluded when the charges were first filed. I don't know if they could have won without it or even if they'll win with it on a trial, but they'll likely get their shot at that. I do agree with you that if they just straight up blew it here then there should be some sort of repercussion for that.

Quote:
None of those guys should have been brought to a public hearing and put in a position where they either lied, or were made to look a fool like McGwire. It's a pathetic overuse of congressional power, and the fact that they've continued to waste my tax dollars on this is shameful.
Again that's an opinion. You think that, but I think that if players are making a mockery of this country's pastime and no one is doing anything about, something should be done. Let's not forget that steroids are illegal. Whether you think they are good or bad for the game, they are illegal outside of the sport.

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07-15-2011, 05:19 PM
  #118
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I'd much rather get a right hander who can hit than a relief pitchers. When healthy, the back of our bullpen is pretty good.
Lidge/Contreras/Stutes getting us to Bastardo then Madson should be ok, especially if we have Halladay, Lee, and Hamels going at least 7 innings every outing. In the playoffs it definitely shouldn't matter as long as our starters don't get blown up. I would much rather have a bat.

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07-15-2011, 05:29 PM
  #119
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"You can never have too much pitching" is a saying for a reason. If they can't get a deal on a bat, so be it.

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07-15-2011, 05:30 PM
  #120
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Lidge/Contreras/Stutes getting us to Bastardo then Madson should be ok, especially if we have Halladay, Lee, and Hamels going at least 7 innings every outing. In the playoffs it definitely shouldn't matter as long as our starters don't get blown up. I would much rather have a bat.
No way Lidge should be on this team. He is done. He use to have the fastball slider combo, but not the only pitch he can throw for a strike is the slider. He is getting wrecked in the minors as we speak.

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07-15-2011, 06:19 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's just an opinion. There are likely just as many people on the other side of the fence on that topic.



Again, opinion.



I'm sure that is not the government's justification for the trial. I was simply stating that I don't like him. I'm not saying they should do anything because of that, just that I was hoping he would get busted.



If they botched this trial and just ignored the judge, then yes I agree that they should be fired. But my guess is that they did it on purpose so they could get a new trial and attempt to get the evidence in. When you're trying a case you don't know what evidence will be allowed in until either the trial or if there are other motions prior to trial. You bring the charges or other lawsuit with the evidence you have. During the pre-trial stage or trial evidence is objected to and motions are file to keep evidence out. You can't really fault them for bringing the charges and going after him because certain evidence got excluded. They didn't know it would be excluded when the charges were first filed. I don't know if they could have won without it or even if they'll win with it on a trial, but they'll likely get their shot at that. I do agree with you that if they just straight up blew it here then there should be some sort of repercussion for that.



Again that's an opinion. You think that, but I think that if players are making a mockery of this country's pastime and no one is doing anything about, something should be done. Let's not forget that steroids are illegal. Whether you think they are good or bad for the game, they are illegal outside of the sport.
1. It's pretty clear you don't actually know what you are talking about.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...erjury-charges

They may never get back into court after this stupid. So might want to hit your law school books a bit harder.

2. I'm glad you are comfortable wasting tax payer money to prosecute frivolous crap (and lying about PEDs is the definition of frivolous crap) while the gov't fails to supply troops with *ing armored vehicles. I'm not. Color me strange, but there is far more important stuff for our gov't to be spending its time doing.

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07-15-2011, 06:21 PM
  #122
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No way Lidge should be on this team. He is done. He use to have the fastball slider combo, but not the only pitch he can throw for a strike is the slider. He is getting wrecked in the minors as we speak.
I like how he has one terrible rehab outing. It gets reported on CSN. Now Lidge is "getting wrecked" in the minors.

He's pitched 4.2 innings. Relax.

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07-15-2011, 06:52 PM
  #123
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Buster Olney says the Phils are front runners to land Heath Bell or Mike Adams from San Diego. Maybe Amaro will go after Ludwick too
Rumors have a package including Dom Brown for both Bell and Ludwick.

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07-15-2011, 06:54 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1. It's pretty clear you don't actually know what you are talking about.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...erjury-charges

They may never get back into court after this stupid. So might want to hit your law school books a bit harder.
It's clear you don't know what you are talking about. Your buddy writing that article makes it seem a lot more likely that Double Jeopardy will apply. In reality it is very unlikely. When a judge declares a mistrial on his own motion, Double Jeopardy rarely, if ever, applies. If you want me to find the cases that say that I will, but instead I am going to take a page out of your book and say, "if you are too lazy too look it up I am not even going to get into with you."


Quote:
2. I'm glad you are comfortable wasting tax payer money to prosecute frivolous crap (and lying about PEDs is the definition of frivolous crap) while the gov't fails to supply troops with *ing armored vehicles. I'm not. Color me strange, but there is far more important stuff for our gov't to be spending its time doing.
Ok, let's only prosecute real crimes. Its ok to lie to Congress if Congress's reasons for conducting the hearing are stupid. That is great. If I ever go to court or have to testify for some reason in front of Congress, I will just lie if I don't agree with the reasons that are behind the reasons for being in that situation. Do you see why you need to prosecute people for this? Yes, it isn't as bad as murder, but if you start picking and choosing which crimes to enforce, the "little" crimes will go away and a large part of the justice system will fall apart.

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07-15-2011, 07:54 PM
  #125
Jtown
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I like how he has one terrible rehab outing. It gets reported on CSN. Now Lidge is "getting wrecked" in the minors.

He's pitched 4.2 innings. Relax.
How do you set up the slider without a fastball? He had 2008....that was it. Relax.

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