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Nazem Kadri for Kyle Turris?

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Old
07-15-2011, 01:37 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
He wasn't that impressive in the AHL, had decent numbers but in no way dominated. Sorry its just my opinion. When Kadri was drafted, it was suggested he'd be a top line forward & a cornerstone in the Leafs Organization. After a few seasons now, he looks as if he's destined to be more of a complimentary player. And in my opinion he's got 3rd line energy guy written all over him. It's not meant as a slight, a skilled 3rd line energy winger is a must on every team. Like I said, perhaps he develops his game & becomes a fixture on the Leafs 2nd line someday. I just dont see Kadri as a perennial All-Star.
Kadri has always been labelled as a complimentary player and never once by rational considered "cornerstone" of our franchise. In the same breath you can be a complimentary player while not being a perennial All-Star much like Mike Ribeiro is. If anything Luke Schenn was given that title.

What do you expect from a 20 year old kid adjusting to the PRO game? He put up 41 points in 44 games playing against men almost twice his age. It was expected he would spend time in the AHL to further his defensive play/gain strength. It wasn't a spectacular season but a good one for sure where his offensive skills were shown. He could very well end up a third-line energy guy but that's the guessing game you play with prospects. To base potential off of statistics as a poster on this forum is pretty ignorant. In the same breath on that logic, I could say Seguin is at best a speedy 3rd line center with decent upside going forward. Kadri has played one season, get over yourself troll..

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07-15-2011, 01:41 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I just don't see it in him. He looks like a fast "chip the puck in the corner & chase it" kind of guy. Early on in Toronto I saw him trying to stick handle too much (which seems as if coaching put a stop to that) & got himself into trouble. His shot is decent, he's an ok passer, got good speed but not overly-quick... & he's small. There just isn't one element to his game that's very impressive. He's just a good all around player, but imo doesnt posess the raw talent of a potential top-line winger. Again, which isn't a slight.. every team only has 3 top line players. I see Kadri as a long term very solid 3rd line energy winger who can perhaps one day help bring the Cup back to Toronto.
The problem is that you saw him early on, in his second call-up he was much more composed and his vision improved, he can stickhandle around people then slide the puck through traffic to get to who he wants. He absolutely has the raw talent of 1st line winger, not elite but the kid can move around people easily and find the open ice to make plays. He's worked on his defensive zone, he still has the offensive flair everyone saw in London and he hasn't really been crunched into the boards beside 1 or 2 times during his first call-up. He's perfectly fine.

Watch him more often this year if he plays in the NHL you'll be surprised. I could go off and say the same thing about Marchand if I only saw him during his first couple games then I'd look like an asshat.

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07-15-2011, 01:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I just don't see it in him. He looks like a fast "chip the puck in the corner & chase it" kind of guy. Early on in Toronto I saw him trying to stick handle too much (which seems as if coaching put a stop to that) & got himself into trouble. His shot is decent, he's an ok passer, got good speed but not overly-quick... & he's small. There just isn't one element to his game that's very impressive. He's just a good all around player, but imo doesnt posess the raw talent of a potential top-line winger. Again, which isn't a slight.. every team only has 3 top line players. I see Kadri as a long term very solid 3rd line energy winger who can perhaps one day help bring the Cup back to Toronto.
These are bang on assesments. He came in trying to "do to much" with the puck (like you pointed out) but now is thinking more outside of the blade of his stick.

As you mentioned, he needs to develop the rest of his skills in order to fit into the top6. For me, the steps he's already taken in other areas of his game show that he is improving and is capable of rounding out his game. It's just a matter of IF it actually happens.

A bit OT, but this is why I like Biggs as our 1st pick this year. If he can put all the offensive tools together, the style of game he plays will allow him to slot into a 3rd line role perfectly. Similar to Colby Armstrong.

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07-15-2011, 01:43 PM
  #54
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Kadri needs to stop being brought up in so many proposals. I believe him and Turris have the same value, but this makes no sense for either team. If Kadri does happen to get traded, hopefully it's in a package to land a #1C.

I'm also getting tired of reading how Kadri is such a ****** prospect, if you don't like him fine. Why do these people have to keep bashing a 20 year old.

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07-15-2011, 01:43 PM
  #55
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To all the wishy washy leaf fans out there.

1. Why do you make trade proposals for other teams superstars and throw kadri in for him to get defamed by other teams.
2. Why do you listen to the other teams saying that kadri is crap because they are talking about him in context of their star players.
3. Why do you want to trade him when he has finally began to show glimpses of becoming a great hockey player.
4. Why do you want to acquire another player who is going to be a add on in another million dumb proposals attempting to acquire a superstar, and who is just barley able to make the leafs roster.
5 Why do you want to put yourself through the same pain that you went through and have been going through with kadri, only with a farther along the way player who IMO is closer to being a bust then kadri.

Turris showed glimpses of being an NHL player in the series that the phoenix coyotes got SWEPT by the Detroit red wings.. why do the leafs want to bring a player in who while playing well did not make a difference in any of the games he played in(aka did not lead his team to a win).

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07-15-2011, 01:43 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
What makes Turris that much ahead of Kadri?

I'm not saying I'd do the deal or not. It's a flip of a coin at this point on who the better player will be. Neither has done much groundbreaking progression since being drafted.
IMO Turris is on the verge of a major breakout.

11 goals and 25 points in 65 games while playing mostly 3rd/4th line minutes for a 21 year old is pretty damn good.

Turris was getting 1:26 PP mintues out of 11:16 per game.

Turris' first stint in the NHL when he was 19, was pretty bad. But I think he's improved by leaps and bounds. This year he's going to be given a lot more opportunity. I expect him to put up 20+ goals and 60+ points. I think Kadri is a ways away from that yet.

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07-15-2011, 01:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Man Hole Inspector View Post
Kadri has always been labelled as a complimentary player and never once by rational considered "cornerstone" of our franchise. In the same breath you can be a complimentary player while not being a perennial All-Star much like Mike Ribeiro is. If anything Luke Schenn was given that title.

What do you expect from a 20 year old kid adjusting to the PRO game? He put up 41 points in 44 games playing against men almost twice his age. It was expected he would spend time in the AHL to further his defensive play/gain strength. It wasn't a spectacular season but a good one for sure where his offensive skills were shown. He could very well end up a third-line energy guy but that's the guessing game you play with prospects. To base potential off of statistics as a poster on this forum is pretty ignorant. In the same breath on that logic, I could say Seguin is at best a speedy 3rd line center with decent upside going forward. Kadri has played one season, get over yourself troll..
Wow a tad upset today are we?

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers guy, all Im saying is Kadri is a good all around player but doesnt have anything elite in his 'tool box'.. And since you brought up Seguin lets discuss, you're right maybe Seguin becomes nothing more than a 3rd line winger.. but at least we see game breaking speed & dynamic shot in his game already. He's extremely raw, but he's consistently shown elite speed & shot. Hey maybe it never materializes to anything, but its there. I just dont see anything 'elite' to Kadris' game yet.

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07-15-2011, 01:45 PM
  #58
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it's amazing how all of you get into an argument over rumours by this website

you know they also said malkin to toronto and burke was going to offersheet stamkos right?

you guys have the memory of a fish

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07-15-2011, 01:46 PM
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Every year neither one of these guys is a top 6 forward, which they seem to have been project as since the beginning of time it feels like, they move closer to becoming busts.

Frankly I'm tired of hearing about Kadri rumors and what Turris never does or fails to do.

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07-15-2011, 01:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
These are bang on assesments. He came in trying to "do to much" with the puck (like you pointed out) but now is thinking more outside of the blade of his stick.

As you mentioned, he needs to develop the rest of his skills in order to fit into the top6. For me, the steps he's already taken in other areas of his game show that he is improving and is capable of rounding out his game. It's just a matter of IF it actually happens.

A bit OT, but this is why I like Biggs as our 1st pick this year. If he can put all the offensive tools together, the style of game he plays will allow him to slot into a 3rd line role perfectly. Similar to Colby Armstrong.
Agreed. Im not saying Kadri is crap, Id take him in Boston anyday. He has similar game to Marchand (minus the yapping). Kadri cna be a valuable piece to Toronto future success, he just has to put it all together. It was just my opinion that the general assumption was that Kadri would be a lock as a top line player in Toronto & I dont agree with that asessment. He could perhaps be a 20 goal 45 point guy on your 2nd or 3rd line someday. Which im sure most sane Leaf fans will gladly take.

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07-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Wow a tad upset today are we?

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers guy, all Im saying is Kadri is a good all around player but doesnt have anything elite in his 'tool box'.. And since you brought up Seguin lets discuss, you're right maybe Seguin becomes nothing more than a 3rd line winger.. but at least we see game breaking speed & dynamic shot in his game already. He's extremely raw, but he's consistently shown elite speed & shot. Hey maybe it never materializes to anything, but its there. I just dont see anything 'elite' to Kadris' game yet.
Haha good troll comment.. hows the weather been under the bridge? Anyways you contradict yourself when you say Seguin is "extremely raw" yet Kadri is basically labelled a third line energy guy now. Funny I thought both players just came into this league last season. I'm not saying Kadri is better than Seguin but you can't make a case for one prospect when another hasn't proven anything. It's debatable in regards to Kadri's skillset if any of his skills are "Elite". You fail to mention the major assets of his game which is his creativity and vision as a player.
Vision/Creativity.

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07-15-2011, 01:56 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Turris seems to have more upside than Kadri. Phoenix a tad weak at center. This deal would never happen, although Burke would do it in a heartbeat if opportunity presented itself. Kadri will perhaps be a good player in the NHL, but he was certainly a reach at #7, he doesn't have quite the upside that most thought he did. 3rd line energy guy maybe decent 2nd line winger someday.
What has he done or not done to make you say this? He is one year pro and played both in the NHL and AHL in that time. Kadri has high end skill, speed and a nasty mean streak. He is a little small right now and needs time to develop still but he definitly has top 6 potential. If the Leafs are careful and continue to be patient with his development he has top 3 potential. Not saying Kadri for Turris isn't fair to the Leafs or anything but Turris seems to be developing at the same pace as Kadri really.

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07-15-2011, 01:56 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Agreed. Im not saying Kadri is crap, Id take him in Boston anyday. He has similar game to Marchand (minus the yapping). Kadri cna be a valuable piece to Toronto future success, he just has to put it all together. It was just my opinion that the general assumption was that Kadri would be a lock as a top line player in Toronto & I dont agree with that asessment. He could perhaps be a 20 goal 45 point guy on your 2nd or 3rd line someday. Which im sure most sane Leaf fans will gladly take.
Bingo.

This is one thing i do admire about Burke's drafting of prospects with some edge/bite/tenacity; if they can't put the offensive tools together, they've got the mean streak to battle it out on the 3rd lines. I've never been a fan of drafting prospects for pure offensive talent unless it's a given they'll reach it.

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07-15-2011, 01:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Agreed. Im not saying Kadri is crap, Id take him in Boston anyday. He has similar game to Marchand (minus the yapping). Kadri cna be a valuable piece to Toronto future success, he just has to put it all together. It was just my opinion that the general assumption was that Kadri would be a lock as a top line player in Toronto & I dont agree with that asessment. He could perhaps be a 20 goal 45 point guy on your 2nd or 3rd line someday. Which im sure most sane Leaf fans will gladly take.
Obviously Seguin will be a better player in the future, but I don't think you have seen much of Kadri when it comes to skill. IMO, Kadri has more pure skill than Seguin, although Seguin is better all around.

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07-15-2011, 01:58 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I just don't see it in him. He looks like a fast "chip the puck in the corner & chase it" kind of guy. Early on in Toronto I saw him trying to stick handle too much (which seems as if coaching put a stop to that) & got himself into trouble. His shot is decent, he's an ok passer, got good speed but not overly-quick... & he's small. There just isn't one element to his game that's very impressive. He's just a good all around player, but imo doesnt posess the raw talent of a potential top-line winger. Again, which isn't a slight.. every team only has 3 top line players. I see Kadri as a long term very solid 3rd line energy winger who can perhaps one day help bring the Cup back to Toronto.
Be honest, you haven't seen much of Kadri at all have you?
In earlier posts you say Kadri's AHL numbers aren't impressive at all and Turris is the better prospect yet Kadri has had much better numbers in the A than Turris.

Kadri does have a mean streak but he is not a dump and chase guy at all. He is all about skilled puck movement. He has amazing hands, maybe the best in the league some day. There are big holes in his game and he needs to learn when to and when not to dangle, his shot isnt great, and he is week on the puck but he is all skill.







Oh and he will probably be one of the top shootout specialists in the league.







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07-15-2011, 01:58 PM
  #66
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Why is TO urgently trying to ship out Kadri?
Lulz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I love how some Toronto fans are saying they wouldn't do this deal. Even if Kadri turns out to be the better player going based totally on what we've seen of both and the leafs needs.... Burke would be a moron not to pull the trigger on this deal.

A few years ago leafs fans were saying similar things about Bozak, how he'd be such a good player

Burke takes this deal and laughs all the way to the bank.
What the hell are you talking about?


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07-15-2011, 02:01 PM
  #67
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I don't see why the leafs would move kadri for another unproven player. not really a move that makes a bunch of sense to me.

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07-15-2011, 02:14 PM
  #68
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I think that most non-Leaf posters on HFBoards underrate Kadri and most Leaf posters overrate Kadri.

He probably falls somewhere in the middle. I think he has top 6 upside, though I don't think he'll be a good top liner. I think he should be a good 2nd liner though. 45 - 65 points a year.

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07-15-2011, 02:20 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I think that most non-Leaf posters on HFBoards underrate Kadri and most Leaf posters overrate Kadri.

He probably falls somewhere in the middle. I think he has top 6 upside, though I don't think he'll be a good top liner. I think he should be a good 2nd liner though. 45 - 65 points a year.
I think that is a fair assessment tho I think he will be one of the top shootout specialists in the league on top of it.

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07-15-2011, 02:21 PM
  #70
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If a team woefully short of skilled centers trades Turris for someone just as unproven I will be one pissed off Coyotes' fan.

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07-15-2011, 02:23 PM
  #71
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I don't see why the leafs would move kadri for another unproven player. not really a move that makes a bunch of sense to me.
This. No point in trading for what might be a slight upgrade with a prospect. Proven players are a different story. I would have traded Kulemin and Kadri for Richards no problem, just as an example. Why spend 2 years teaching the kid to play your way just to trade for another unproven player?

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07-15-2011, 02:27 PM
  #72
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Bingo.

This is one thing i do admire about Burke's drafting of prospects with some edge/bite/tenacity; if they can't put the offensive tools together, they've got the mean streak to battle it out on the 3rd lines. I've never been a fan of drafting prospects for pure offensive talent unless it's a given they'll reach it.
It is a quality of Burke that I admire. Kadri seems like a "Boston Bruin type" guy. Chippy rugged with some offensive flair. The type of guy you want rolling over the bench as Kulemin & Kessel come off the ice. Not every player is a top line player, but quality depth is the difference between contenders & pretenders. I dont think any Bruins fan will argue that had Brad Marchand not perfomed as he did this past post season, Boston would not have hoisted the Cup.

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07-15-2011, 02:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I think that most non-Leaf posters on HFBoards underrate Kadri and most Leaf posters overrate Kadri.

He probably falls somewhere in the middle. I think he has top 6 upside, though I don't think he'll be a good top liner. I think he should be a good 2nd liner though. 45 - 65 points a year.
i think your right, we dont know for sure if his slick hands will translate to the NHL yet. Guys who like to deke a bit to much (imo) get a reputation for it and then Dmen look for it, and eventually they catch on and see it coming...

its not like the AHL or juniors, top NHL dmen know their opposition, and can make them pay big time for getting to fancy. These overly-danglers it bites a team in the ass HARD if they get caught.

not saying the WILL happen to Kadri, just saying its no shoe-in his style translates.

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07-15-2011, 02:30 PM
  #74
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An EFFF no from Phoenix, in my opinion of course. We've spent a lot of time trying to develop Turris, and things seem to be looking up. Why would we take a step back in the process?

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07-15-2011, 02:42 PM
  #75
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Do French's credentials extend beyond HB?

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