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Old
07-15-2011, 12:18 PM
  #126
Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
I would not mind Bailey.

DD, Eller and him would all be fighting for the 2nd center spot. A little competition among the young wolves would not hurt us.

And someone knows about Matt Martin and Travis Hamonic?
DD has no shot at that spot. He's a fill in at C until Eller is back plain and simple. Eller is easily hands down the better player. If DD wants to stick in the NHL he'll have to learn to play the wing or continue to be a bubble player

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07-15-2011, 12:22 PM
  #127
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How would it be circumvention of the cap to give inflated 1-year contracts?
I was trying to say that teams looking to reach the floor and purposely line up a team of nobodies with max contracts is just as bad as teams trying to lower cap hit over a long period of time.

In my opinion getting a plugger from the ahl and offering him one year 9 million dollar contract just to reach the floor is a form of circumvention.

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07-15-2011, 12:45 PM
  #128
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***************
@dorffxmosh @iltah883107 First of all Gomez has 2 agree 2 trade(Islanders are still on NTC) Snow would give up mid-level player(s) no Bailey

***************
@gpl_03 From what i hear Islanders want back either a 1st rd pick for taking Gomez or a D-Man that would be able to crack lineup this year



So we'd take a mid-level player back and the Islanders want a D-man/1st rounder as well. Could we possibly give them both Gomez and Spacek?

That would give us the cap space to get Hannan to really shore up our defense.

But if no Bailey, who plays center? Cammalleri? I don't see a viable center coming back from the Isles.

doesn't matter what we get back, really, replacing Gomez will not be an issue. We need to ignore his resume, and simply look at his level of play with the team. Even with the brief stint of productive hockey he had in the 2nd half last season, on the whole Gomez has been nothing more than a very average, soft, poor at faceoffs, top-6 fwd for us.

if we didn't get a centre back, the simple solution would be to sign Brendan Morrison...

far more productive than Gomez last season (in smaller minutes), better defensively, better in the faceoff circle, and obviously much cheaper.

Pleks
DD/Eller
Morrison

that's as good or better centre depth than we have right now, plus we'd have 5-6M$ in extra cap space once the season got going. a few quality players get moved every year for cap reasons, this would leave us in a position to take advantage of such a move to further bolster our roster.

other options to act as a stop-gap would be Stillman, or if the team was confident enough in DD/Eller, a guy like Madden to give us depth.


Hudler is another player who is rumored to be available, wouldn't cost much, and could play some minutes at centre for us.


looking at the UFA crop for 2012, it's shaping up to be weaker/thinner than this year, so having a nice cushion of cap space (without dropping the level of play of our current roster) is a no-brainer, as it will allow us to be aggressive in the trade market.

if we don't move gomez before next year, we will be in a very tough cap situation...

as it sits, we'll have 12 roster spots to fill with only 26M$ in cap space to use (notwithstanding any increases in the cap).

with Price/Subban, & Gorges(this year) all in line for substantial raises, plus Eller/Kost/emelin needing new deals (and hopefully raises... since it would mean they had a good 2011-2012 campaign), we will be very tight to simply retain our group, let alone upgrade it.


the thing is that even if Gomez plays "well" by reasonable expectations, his cap hit will still be a burden. Unless he's able to play at a quality top-line centre level, which he doesn't appear capable of at this point (and really at any point other than 1-2 seasons in the swamp), he needs to be moved, and better to do it at the earliest possible opportunity, than to cross-fingers and hope some other team bites on the cap vs. salary savings a year from now.

as much as people seem to think Gomez will bounce back, what if he actually regresses even further? we have to be aware that it is a possibility, and how scary is that thought


Last edited by Miller Time: 07-15-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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Old
07-15-2011, 12:53 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
***************
@dorffxmosh @iltah883107 First of all Gomez has 2 agree 2 trade(Islanders are still on NTC) Snow would give up mid-level player(s) no Bailey

***************
@gpl_03 From what i hear Islanders want back either a 1st rd pick for taking Gomez or a D-Man that would be able to crack lineup this year



So we'd take a mid-level player back and the Islanders want a D-man/1st rounder as well. Could we possibly give them both Gomez and Spacek?

That would give us the cap space to get Hannan to really shore up our defense.

But if no Bailey, who plays center? Cammalleri? I don't see a viable center coming back from the Isles.


There are huge holes in ***************'s logic for his rumors....



He's the one who said Gomez refused to waive his NTC to go to long Island... so we didn't get Richards... and now Habs would still be trying to trade him to the Isles....


I know this is the non-credible rumors, but you don't even need to say it is... just reading his rumors show that they are non-credible.

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Old
07-15-2011, 12:54 PM
  #130
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How many times does this have to be explained?
If anyone thinks that if Gomez is getting traded this year, then I would highly suggest him/herself to get a reality check. Does anyone really think we can trade such an overpaid 2nd line center who just hit a career low for anything?

Next summer will be a different matter though. There are still UFAs left for some teams to reach the floor.

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Old
07-15-2011, 01:12 PM
  #131
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Am I the only one who doesn't want to trade Gomez, especially if we're giving away picks and with no one to replace him as the 2nd line centre?

Hell, it's not like the Habs have any salary cap problems either.

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07-15-2011, 01:15 PM
  #132
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Am I the only one who doesn't want to trade Gomez, especially if we're giving away picks and with no one to replace him as the 2nd line centre?
Nope. I like him too. Definitely would like to see him produce more but he's a big part of the team for a number of reasons. One reason alone is his speed and ability to gain the zone for example. People just get fixated on points. Fact is he's still young and will bounce back I have no doubt.

But I wouldn't worry about him getting traded anyway. Definitely don't see it happening unless an experienced center is coming back.

Most of the proposals I've seen are scary and would cripple us down the middle.

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Old
07-15-2011, 01:22 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
DD has no shot at that spot. He's a fill in at C until Eller is back plain and simple. Eller is easily hands down the better player. If DD wants to stick in the NHL he'll have to learn to play the wing or continue to be a bubble player
I am not sure why so many people discount what Desharnais has done (other than his size).

The kid has dominated just about everywhere he has played.

Project his stats last season (his first 43 games in the HNL) over 82 games and he has 15G, 27A, 42P.

I agree that he probably isn't ready for second line duties, but he could be a very good 3rd line centre next season.

I would not be surprised at all if Desharnais puts up 18G and 40A next season.

This whole situation reminds me of Plekanec when he was breaking into the league and everyone said he could never become a #2 centre....look at him now.

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Old
07-15-2011, 01:25 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
If anyone thinks that if Gomez is getting traded this year, then I would highly suggest him/herself to get a reality check. Does anyone really think we can trade such an overpaid 2nd line center who just hit a career low for anything?

Next summer will be a different matter though. There are still UFAs left for some teams to reach the floor.
The Habs CAN trade Gomez...they'll just have to pay some type of premium to do it. Whether by including a prospect, a pick or taking back another undesirable contract.

Though I agree, i find it very unlikely that it will happen

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07-15-2011, 01:26 PM
  #135
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Most of the proposals I've seen are scary and would cripple us down the middle.


but but , Eller, but Desharnias are ready

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The Habs CAN trade Gomez...they'll just have to pay some type of premium to do it. Whether by including a prospect, a pick or taking back another undesirable contract.

Though I agree, i find it very unlikely that it will happen

That does not make any sense, at this point, we actually need Gomez and can use him as the second line center. Unless there is a deal on the table to get a center as good or better, trading him to anyone to help them reach the cap floor and giving them picks too? Taking back some other teams contract mistake and help them reach the floor? No need to do anything of the sort. Trade for a positive return or let him play here.


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Old
07-15-2011, 01:37 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
There are huge holes in ***************'s logic for his rumors....



He's the one who said Gomez refused to waive his NTC to go to long Island... so we didn't get Richards... and now Habs would still be trying to trade him to the Isles....


I know this is the non-credible rumors, but you don't even need to say it is... just reading his rumors show that they are non-credible.
The guy breaks stories day in and day out... MLB, NFL, NBA... and NHL to a lesser extent. He obviously has many sources... probably journalists who get info off the record and can't publish it.

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Old
07-15-2011, 01:44 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
There are huge holes in ***************'s logic for his rumors....



He's the one who said Gomez refused to waive his NTC to go to long Island... so we didn't get Richards... and now Habs would still be trying to trade him to the Isles....


I know this is the non-credible rumors, but you don't even need to say it is... just reading his rumors show that they are non-credible.
Apparently, he's Rupert Murdoch. He's got all the players miked up.

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Old
07-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
Most of the proposals I've seen are scary and would cripple us down the middle.


but but , Eller, but Desharnias are ready




That does not make any sense, at this point, we actually need Gomez and can use him as the second line center. Unless there is a deal on the table to get a center as good or better, trading him to anyone to help them reach the cap floor and giving them picks too? Taking back some other teams contract mistake and help them reach the floor? No need to do anything of the sort. Trade for a positive return or let him play here.
DD or Eller are ready to put up 30-40pts with top-6 ice-time/PP time/linemates and be sub-50% in the face off circle and average defensively... at least they are to anyone who watched them play last year.

Morrison would be a cheap upgrade over Gomez if the team didn't feel confident in going with the 2 young guys alone.

Stillman & Madden would be suitable depth additions as well in that case.


that's 4 separate and realistic options that would leave us as good, or better, if/when we move Gomez this offseason.

and all 4 are far more likely than Gomez all of a sudden stepping his game back up to a level where he is anything but a huge burden on the team when taking his cap hit into consideration, which, like it or not, does count.

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Old
07-15-2011, 02:07 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
Most of the proposals I've seen are scary and would cripple us down the middle.


but but , Eller, but Desharnias are ready




That does not make any sense, at this point, we actually need Gomez and can use him as the second line center. Unless there is a deal on the table to get a center as good or better, trading him to anyone to help them reach the cap floor and giving them picks too? Taking back some other teams contract mistake and help them reach the floor? No need to do anything of the sort. Trade for a positive return or let him play here.
They are ready, especially Eller.

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Old
07-15-2011, 02:12 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
Most of the proposals I've seen are scary and would cripple us down the middle.


but but , Eller, but Desharnias are ready




That does not make any sense, at this point, we actually need Gomez and can use him as the second line center. Unless there is a deal on the table to get a center as good or better, trading him to anyone to help them reach the cap floor and giving them picks too? Taking back some other teams contract mistake and help them reach the floor? No need to do anything of the sort. Trade for a positive return or let him play here.
Which is why I said it's unlikely to happen...I was just saying that trading Gomez is not impossible, they would just have to 'take a loss' in order to do it

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07-15-2011, 02:19 PM
  #141
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Eller is coming back from shoulder surgery, for a center it is a tough injury. Getting DD or Eller to be 30 - 40 point second line center would not be better( with the exception of progressing DD and Eller) so a lateral move instead of progressive. Gomez would not suddenly become better than his normal self, just gets two legitimate top 6 wingers to play with, achieves 50 - 60 points. Addition of Cole makes # 1 line better, let gio, max and gomez play together all year. Eller, Ak other top 9 winger play together should be beneficial for Eller if that line gets more higher than average 3rd line minutes. BTW who is the 9th forward?

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07-15-2011, 02:29 PM
  #142
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Eller is coming back from shoulder surgery, for a center it is a tough injury. Getting DD or Eller to be 30 - 40 point second line center would not be better( with the exception of progressing DD and Eller) so a lateral move instead of progressive. Gomez would not suddenly become better than his normal self, just gets two legitimate top 6 wingers to play with, achieves 50 - 60 points. Addition of Cole makes # 1 line better, let gio, max and gomez play together all year. Eller, Ak other top 9 winger play together should be beneficial for Eller if that line gets more higher than average 3rd line minutes. BTW who is the 9th forward?
I think Darche, Moen, and possibly DD are the realistic options...

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07-15-2011, 02:31 PM
  #143
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They are ready, especially Eller.
Hey, Eller put 17 pts in 77 games last year. It's horrible

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Old
07-15-2011, 02:33 PM
  #144
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If Gomez goes to the Islanders I see a player like Casey Cizikas coming back.
His story is definitely an interesting one, considering his manslaughter charge after the accidental death of a 15-year old boy.

Read the story here: http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2009/07/cc/

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Old
07-15-2011, 02:44 PM
  #145
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I am not sure why so many people discount what Desharnais has done (other than his size).

The kid has dominated just about everywhere he has played.

Project his stats last season (his first 43 games in the HNL) over 82 games and he has 15G, 27A, 42P.

I agree that he probably isn't ready for second line duties, but he could be a very good 3rd line centre next season.

I would not be surprised at all if Desharnais puts up 18G and 40A next season.

This whole situation reminds me of Plekanec when he was breaking into the league and everyone said he could never become a #2 centre....look at him now.
You just answered your question. Plekeanec is a number two / 1B centre. Montreal can ill afford to replace a Gomez with a smaller player like DD. They need size down the middle and Eller is that. Now Eller is not a number 1 C but he has all the tools to be. Size, Speed Vision and hands. All he needs is the ice time. Why would you take that away from him to give it to DD? Eller has a higher upside then DD. That's just my opinion.

DD would be a very good option as a number two C on a team with a legit number 1 Centre and size down the middle but Montreal does not have that luxury!

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07-15-2011, 02:59 PM
  #146
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You just answered your question. Plekeanec is a number two / 1B centre. Montreal can ill afford to replace a Gomez with a smaller player like DD. They need size down the middle and Eller is that. Now Eller is not a number 1 C but he has all the tools to be. Size, Speed Vision and hands. All he needs is the ice time. Why would you take that away from him to give it to DD? Eller has a higher upside then DD. That's just my opinion.

DD would be a very good option as a number two C on a team with a legit number 1 Centre and size down the middle but Montreal does not have that luxury!
Nothing wrong with your size coming from a strong #3 centre like Jordan Staal. Eller could end up being that type of player.

If we had a strong third line, it would be pretty indistinguishable from a second line.

Pleks on the first, Gomez eventually replaced by Desharnais on the "second offensive line" and Eller on the strong "third two-way line" that actually matches up against a #1 or #2 line of the other team.

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Old
07-15-2011, 03:00 PM
  #147
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I was trying to say that teams looking to reach the floor and purposely line up a team of nobodies with max contracts is just as bad as teams trying to lower cap hit over a long period of time.

In my opinion getting a plugger from the ahl and offering him one year 9 million dollar contract just to reach the floor is a form of circumvention.
There is no possible reasonable definition of 'cap circumvention' that you can fit the original example into.

The phrase has become a meaningless catch all for 'anything I don't like'. "Did you see Lucic facewashing Subban in that scrum, that's cap circumvention that is..."

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Old
07-15-2011, 03:02 PM
  #148
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Eller is coming back from shoulder surgery, for a center it is a tough injury. Getting DD or Eller to be 30 - 40 point second line center would not be better( with the exception of progressing DD and Eller) so a lateral move instead of progressive. Gomez would not suddenly become better than his normal self, just gets two legitimate top 6 wingers to play with, achieves 50 - 60 points. Addition of Cole makes # 1 line better, let gio, max and gomez play together all year. Eller, Ak other top 9 winger play together should be beneficial for Eller if that line gets more higher than average 3rd line minutes. BTW who is the 9th forward?
I'm thinking that an Aaron Palushaj who is a bit undersized but fast and feisty could fit well with Eller and AK46 who both have size. He is also a good passer.

Also, Louis Leblanc is by nature a strong two-way player and if he progresses well, he could land in Montreal during his second pro season in 2012-13.

As people know, I would prefer Desharnais to play center, surrounded by some beef in two of Darche, Moen or White, and he could get PP minutes and also PK minutes. Desharnais could easily get 12 minutes a game even if technically on the "fourth line".

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07-15-2011, 03:08 PM
  #149
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Why would the Isles trade for him and waste a roster spot for him?
Only reason I can think of honestly is the same reason we went after Gomez in the first place.

At the time it seemed we couldn't land a single good UFA. Islanders are having the same predicament.

I'm not saying them landing Gomez would open the flood gates all I'm saying is they need to reach the cap floor and trading for overpaid players when none will sign with you seems realistic as any option other than overpaying remaining unsigned UFA players. You would basically need to sign a guy like say Ryder (if he was still available) to a 1 year 7 million dollar contract. That or sign a bunch of marginal AHLers don't be competitive and overpay them all.

Sure that would give the young ones time to develop but the problem is that sends a terrible message to fans and future UFA you're looking to sign. Most UFA don't want to be part of a rebuild unless it's some serious coin, but evidence of their last few UFA periods just goes to show they don't land UFAs. Pretty sure they've tried and either have to give astronomical overpayment or get rejected due to team direction. They're probably better off reaching the cap bottom and bottoming out for 2-3 years at this point. They could be even better. Tavares is good but they need much more. Homegrown talent seems like the way to go.

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07-15-2011, 03:22 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I am not sure why so many people discount what Desharnais has done (other than his size).

The kid has dominated just about everywhere he has played.

Project his stats last season (his first 43 games in the HNL) over 82 games and he has 15G, 27A, 42P.

I agree that he probably isn't ready for second line duties, but he could be a very good 3rd line centre next season.

I would not be surprised at all if Desharnais puts up 18G and 40A next season.

This whole situation reminds me of Plekanec when he was breaking into the league and everyone said he could never become a #2 centre....look at him now.
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Nothing wrong with your size coming from a strong #3 centre like Jordan Staal. Eller could end up being that type of player.

If we had a strong third line, it would be pretty indistinguishable from a second line.

Pleks on the first, Gomez eventually replaced by Desharnais on the "second offensive line" and Eller on the strong "third two-way line" that actually matches up against a #1 or #2 line of the other team.
Big difference between Eller on the third line and Jordan Staal....Hmmm what could that be? Oh Ya Crosby and Malkin as your 1 and 2....LOL

Plekanec and especially DD can't be compared.
Like I said on a team where there is a Stamkos or Crosby or Getzlaf DD is fine as a number 2 (potentially) but still Eller is a better option. In Montreal they have no Crosby Malkin ect....Eller has to be that number two if Gomez is gone. It's the only size they have at the position.

DD would get eaten alive a s a number two behind Plekanec!

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