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Alzner signed to two-year deal ($1.285M cap hit)

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Old
07-15-2011, 05:24 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
A victim of what?
You might argue he's a victim of the system, man.

Seriously though, he is their best shutdown Dman, and he's getting paid less than Erskine. He's worth more than the market would ever give him, it's not all that outrageous for him to hope the Caps remember that when his next contract comes around and he does have some leverage.

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07-15-2011, 05:28 PM
  #102
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“There was no other offer out there so that was all I had,” Alzner, 22, said. “So it was either take it or leave it.”
Sorry if posted.

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07-15-2011, 05:30 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
You might argue he's a victim of the system, man.

Seriously though, he is their best shutdown Dman, and he's getting paid less than Erskine. He's worth more than the market would ever give him, it's not all that outrageous for him to hope the Caps remember that when his next contract comes around and he does have some leverage.
Lavar and Dukes are impossible to listen to. It's the same song with every player they talk to. "How has the (insert local team) screwed you?" It's gross.

Alzner is definitely worth more but at this point he's accomplished less in his career than Jeff Schultz or Erskine when they got their contracts. He sounded like he was at a funeral.

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07-15-2011, 05:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Lavar and Dukes are impossible to listen to. It's the same song with every player they talk to. "How has the (insert local team) screwed you?" It's gross.

Alzner is definitely worth more but at this point he's accomplished less in his career than Jeff Schultz or Erskine when they got their contracts. He sounded like he was at a funeral.
It's got to be a strange situation for him all around. No leverage to get a better deal, even if you're worth more than you're being given. He's not getting screwed, so much, and media sensationalizing it that way is tiresome. At the same time it's not a situation you can exactly jump for joy at if you're a player.

I'm not complaining though. He'll get his payday eventually, and everyone knows it.

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07-15-2011, 05:33 PM
  #105
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This is a nice finish to a mostly very good offseason. Bringing back Hannon would be awesome, I just don't see them parting with Schultz.

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07-15-2011, 05:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
It's got to be a strange situation for him all around. No leverage to get a better deal, even if you're worth more than you're being given. He's not getting screwed, so much, and media sensationalizing it that way is tiresome. At the same time it's not a situation you can exactly jump for joy at if you're a player.

I'm not complaining though. He'll get his payday eventually, and everyone knows it.
Yeah, you could argue he has right to be frustrated but I don't think the Caps did anything unreasonable with his contract. I believe Schultz had 3 years of NHL exp. and was a +50 prior to getting his deal. Green had 56 points and 3 years NHL exp.

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07-15-2011, 05:47 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Yeah, you could argue he has right to be frustrated but I don't think the Caps did anything unreasonable with his contract. I believe Schultz had 3 years of NHL exp. and was a +50 prior to getting his deal. Green had 56 points and 3 years NHL exp.
Hell, I don't think the Caps did anything unreasonable with his development. In my opinion, getting Alzner in the big show right away instead of Hershey is the kind of move that would have stifled whatever offensive growth he was capable of. Using the AHL (and two very successful playoff runs) as a stepping stone for him to be a big contributor as one of the team's best defensemen with a compatible partner was huge for his development as a stout defensive defenseman, to be relied on in situations like that again, but also for his offensive game, to be able to work a little more on moving the puck without being pressured by an NHL forecheck just yet.

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07-15-2011, 06:04 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Lavar and Dukes are impossible to listen to. It's the same song with every player they talk to. "How has the (insert local team) screwed you?" It's gross.

Alzner is definitely worth more but at this point he's accomplished less in his career than Jeff Schultz or Erskine when they got their contracts. He sounded like he was at a funeral.
Pretty sure Lavar is a Pens fan anyway.

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07-15-2011, 06:33 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
Hell, I don't think the Caps did anything unreasonable with his development. In my opinion, getting Alzner in the big show right away instead of Hershey is the kind of move that would have stifled whatever offensive growth he was capable of. Using the AHL (and two very successful playoff runs) as a stepping stone for him to be a big contributor as one of the team's best defensemen with a compatible partner was huge for his development as a stout defensive defenseman, to be relied on in situations like that again, but also for his offensive game, to be able to work a little more on moving the puck without being pressured by an NHL forecheck just yet.
That's about the best rational I have heard. Nice write up. I cant dispute it with facts, its all speculative. But its not rocket science trying to change a kid into something he is not and probably never will be. in your example, offensive. DId you notice an expanded offensive game this year, over last, or the year before that? I didnt. He was stuck behind Ovi on the PP and late in games down a goal. An unrealistic expectation IMO. I can only presume he had a LOT of reps being offensive in his X years as a kid growing up going right through the hitmen. If he was going to be offensive, it was probably going to be obvious before age 20. You would have heard it on the scouting reports. Offensive upside. Untapped offensive potential.

What they had him working on more than becoming offensive IMO, was being aggressive and abandoning the stay at home gene imprinted in his DNA. And playing RD, obviously. Any time in Washington, he did fine at LD. He was caught in a numbers game early on. When they cleared juice for him, he was at RD over proven vets like Poti Sarge Erskine and Sloan. It didnt work. Up came Carlson. They freed an LD spot proper and viola, he did fine. All year.

I wonder what his contract would have been if he had been here for two years at LD, including our monster year. 2M I would guess.

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07-15-2011, 06:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
Hell, I don't think the Caps did anything unreasonable with his development. In my opinion, getting Alzner in the big show right away instead of Hershey is the kind of move that would have stifled whatever offensive growth he was capable of. Using the AHL (and two very successful playoff runs) as a stepping stone for him to be a big contributor as one of the team's best defensemen with a compatible partner was huge for his development as a stout defensive defenseman, to be relied on in situations like that again, but also for his offensive game, to be able to work a little more on moving the puck without being pressured by an NHL forecheck just yet.
I agree with Randy, nice write up. The Caps pretty much justified their handling of Alzner with his play last season (or is it this season). Unless someone can prove that he would be twice as good had he been brought up earlier.

I mean look at Thomas Hickey. Still in the AHL with the Monarchs after being taken one spot ahead of Alzner. Then again LA's D-Corp has ridiculous depth.

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07-15-2011, 06:49 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
That's about the best rational I have heard. Nice write up. I cant dispute it with facts, its all speculative. But its not rocket science trying to change a kid into something he is not and probably never will be. in your example, offensive. DId you notice an expanded offensive game this year, over last, or the year before that? I didnt. He was stuck behind Ovi on the PP and late in games down a goal. An unrealistic expectation IMO. I can only presume he had a LOT of reps being offensive in his X years as a kid growing up going right through the hitmen. If he was going to be offensive, it was probably going to be obvious before age 20. You would have heard it on the scouting reports. Offensive upside. Untapped offensive potential.

What they had him working on more than becoming offensive IMO, was being aggressive and abandoning the stay at home gene imprinted in his DNA. And playing RD, obviously. Any time in Washington, he did fine at LD. He was caught in a numbers game early on. When they cleared juice for him, he was at RD over proven vets like Poti Sarge Erskine and Sloan. It didnt work. Up came Carlson. They freed an LD spot proper and viola, he did fine. All year.

I wonder what his contract would have been if he had been here for two years at LD, including our monster year. 2M I would guess.
I don't believe they tried to break his mold and make him into an offensive defenseman, or even anything really close to that. All I really mean is that his time in Hershey was time spent logging big minutes and dealing with more physically mature players, moving faster and hitting harder than in Juniors, and allowing Alzner time to read that game and get comfortable moving the puck out of his own zone against a faster paced forecheck. I remember reading an article from while Alzner and Carlson were with the Bears, gearing up for Calder Cup round 2, where he talked about learning to get a little more comfortable offensively, and about learning some offensive tools from his D partner, Carlson (while Carlson in turn picked up a whole lot about positioning from Alzner, or so they say).

I thought I noticed a more capable breakout game with Alzner as he grew in Hershey, and while his decision making with the puck never struck me as "bad", I think it got better with time. He matured physically with some less talented, harder working AHL competition, and I think he's better off for it now. At any rate, I certainly don't think he resents the organization for the time spent there. Yeah, I remember the boards being pretty furious that he was down there toiling away while Sloan logged minutes, and I was on that bandwagon, but after watching that last Calder Cup run, and how it translated over his first full season in the NHL, I'll gladly retract that complaining. I think it was great for his development, and was the main reason he stepped in and played a 1st pairing role instead of a 3rd pairing role.

Besides, though definitely different, didn't he all but request to go back to Calgary for his last WHL season to try to captain his team to the Memorial Cup? I can't remember if that was spin or a real desire, but it wouldn't surprise me if he chose to go back. Different, but he's just never struck me as the kind to be bitter because he didn't get his shot right away.

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07-15-2011, 06:58 PM
  #112
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@Ero: 106.7 is garbage. The only reason I listen to it at all is because they hold the Nats radio broadcast rights, but you get better sports discourse at the freaking corner Barbershop than on that abomination of a station.

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07-15-2011, 07:03 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
I agree with Randy, nice write up. The Caps pretty much justified their handling of Alzner with his play last season (or is it this season). Unless someone can prove that he would be twice as good had he been brought up earlier.

I mean look at Thomas Hickey. Still in the AHL with the Monarchs after being taken one spot ahead of Alzner. Then again LA's D-Corp has ridiculous depth.
Thomas Hickey's selection and rational should never come up in the same sentence. Worst move by Lombardi in rebuilding that franchise. Wasted #4 pick.

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07-15-2011, 07:35 PM
  #114
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so, to be clear....are you saying the "chickens are coming home to roost....another year"?

he was always a class act.....he addressed vets as "Mr." his first camp because he "hadnt earned the right to call them by first name". Which is why I (and maybe others) pointed out that your "coming home to roost" comments held no water and were baseless
To comment on the first paragraph: Yep thats what i got out of it. Mr. Atlas didn't disappoint

...and in regards to Alzner: Man, this kid is a C material (and no i'm not implying anything about OV's captaincy) just to me he seems to get it... team wise, hard work, etc.,

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07-15-2011, 07:38 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by TheFountainhead View Post
@Ero: 106.7 is garbage. The only reason I listen to it at all is because they hold the Nats radio broadcast rights, but you get better sports discourse at the freaking corner Barbershop than on that abomination of a station.
the Junkies can be amusing...when they aren't talking sports.

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07-16-2011, 07:00 AM
  #116
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Good points HTFN. I dont doubt that he continued to develop down in Hershey and presumably in the more offensive aspects, passing breakouts etc. Things I suspect he could have picked up on a president grade TOP offensive team, with room for error and learning, working with Ovi not Giroux. Back to Hersh, I think he got a lot of time on the PP at RD, but I suspect much less so at even strength. PP time was not the full training he needed for what they had planned for him, PP and ES offside play is a different animal. Agree there is no resentment but I suspect at the time, he was hurting a little bit inside. Normal for a top pick being demoted, one could surmise.

I am still thrilled George finally didnt retain SMo and created a LD spot for him and put a few of us out of our misery. Hockey is not a complicated sport. Alzner is here now and this case is closed. I am thinking about getting an Alzner T off the sale rack battling the insanity at the Kettle today.


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07-16-2011, 07:18 AM
  #117
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i think knowing what we know about alzner's mental makeup, he is not inclined to do anything but the safe play. the more riding on the game, the less likely he is going to make even an outlet pass that could go wrong.

seems to me he was far more likely to get comfortable out of the eyes of boudreau and mcphee than throwing away nhl games with rookie mistakes with the puck. at the nhl level he wouldnt even take a penalty when it was the right thing to do.

inside his comfort zone he needed little AHL time. to expand his comfort zone, he certainly did.

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07-16-2011, 08:43 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Lavar and Dukes are impossible to listen to. It's the same song with every player they talk to. "How has the (insert local team) screwed you?" It's gross.

Alzner is definitely worth more but at this point he's accomplished less in his career than Jeff Schultz or Erskine when they got their contracts. He sounded like he was at a funeral.
Seriously, I'm confused. Isn't that your song too? Not trying to be insulting but that's what you seem to be going on about in 90% of your posts so why do you find it "impossible to listen to"?

According to you and others, McPhee is ruining this team and BB is incompetent. Alzner was screwed over by this team and is harbouring a grudge. How is that different?


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07-16-2011, 01:00 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Vladiator16 View Post
To comment on the first paragraph: Yep thats what i got out of it. Mr. Atlas didn't disappoint

...and in regards to Alzner: Man, this kid is a C material (and no i'm not implying anything about OV's captaincy) just to me he seems to get it... team wise, hard work, etc.,
wasnt he the C on a stacked WJ team?

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07-16-2011, 01:08 PM
  #120
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wasnt he the C on a stacked WJ team?
I think he was the A then got a C in the summit series against Russia. I could be wrong on that though.

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07-16-2011, 01:17 PM
  #121
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Per wikipedia:

Quote:
Alzner was an assistant captain in the 2007 Super Series against the Russian junior team, and was named captain of Team Canada for the 2008 World Junior Championships, both of which were won by Canada. Alzner was named the WHL Player of the Year and Defenceman of the Year for the 200708 WHL season. He was also named the top defenceman in the Canadian Hockey League.

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07-16-2011, 01:30 PM
  #122
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Per wikipedia:
So I had it exactly backwards. Thanks.

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07-16-2011, 03:02 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
I agree with Randy, nice write up. The Caps pretty much justified their handling of Alzner with his play last season (or is it this season). Unless someone can prove that he would be twice as good had he been brought up earlier.

I mean look at Thomas Hickey. Still in the AHL with the Monarchs after being taken one spot ahead of Alzner. Then again LA's D-Corp has ridiculous depth.
The Caps taking the credit for Alzner's good play last year is a good one.

There is a body of work that has been laid down that is continuous. http://www.bchockey.com/story.aspx?c=2&id=1264

He was given the red light when others get the green.

Must be a Confunus charm at work.

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07-16-2011, 03:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Good points HTFN. I dont doubt that he continued to develop down in Hershey and presumably in the more offensive aspects, passing breakouts etc. Things I suspect he could have picked up on a president grade TOP offensive team, with room for error and learning, working with Ovi not Giroux. Back to Hersh, I think he got a lot of time on the PP at RD, but I suspect much less so at even strength. PP time was not the full training he needed for what they had planned for him, PP and ES offside play is a different animal. Agree there is no resentment but I suspect at the time, he was hurting a little bit inside. Normal for a top pick being demoted, one could surmise.

I am still thrilled George finally didnt retain SMo and created a LD spot for him and put a few of us out of our misery. Hockey is not a complicated sport. Alzner is here now and this case is closed. I am thinking about getting an Alzner T off the sale rack battling the insanity at the Kettle today.
Save an Alzner T for me too.

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07-16-2011, 03:24 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
So I had it exactly backwards. Thanks.
If I'm not mistaken, the Caps have 3 players that were captains of their National teams at the World Juniors: Ovechkin, Alzner, and Johansson.

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