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Old
07-16-2011, 05:49 PM
  #51
Sawdalite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer View Post
if you look at it that way then every single pro athlete is overpaid. i interpreted what the OP said as the Flyers had to pay Briere more to play here, which wasn't true. an athlete being overpaid and a team having to overpay an athlete to play in their respective city are two different things.
The way I look at it is it's a little complicated in this particular case due to a few circumstance... The Flyers at that point were coming off a season where the worse team in the NHL by a pretty large margin and were in a large change mode with the management and coaching being changed in season and the team going in a wholesale sell off... The reputation off the team took a huge hit and confidence in a quick turnaround was not there.

The Flyers, normally a team that players wanted join because they knew they would be at least in the hunt every season and were treated well, now had to gain back most of that lost confidence in them and needed players to see that they were not only willing to bring in quality players bu also willing to pay them enough to buy patience and maybe a season or so before they again would contend for the Cup.

At they same time three major number one centers were on the open market and desired greatly by many teams... The Flyers would have to not only pay premium dollars/be competitive but offer perks that would give them an advantage; NMC and a long front-loaded contract were two perks. They also had to convince one of the top UFA centers to play in Philly rather than the other major markets in the hunt.

Turns out Briere took the Flyers deal, which was in total lower, over his hometown Montreal team... and over all else the other teams offered -- I believe at a certain point money is enough and over that point other factors come into play... and Briere felt he had enough cash on the table and went with other factors.

Competing teams will pay what the open market will bear... So is that market price an overpayment or merely the cost of such a player at that time and with those circumstances?

With that I also feel that Free Agency has caused bidding wars and raised the bar in certain years... and when hat happens ALL the players who take advantage of the circumstances are overpaid -- Before FA it was pretty much a play or don't play situation in sports... you sit you get no pay... and the pay was proportionally much lower even when inflation is factored in.

Long story short... for all those who have read this far... Briere got a lot of money and a lot of it upfront for a long period of security and a full no movement clause, but left money on the table to play with the Flyers... The Flyers got the marque player that they wanted from the top three centers and gained credibility and talent while conceding control and having less cap space for others. Turns out that the Flyers got the best of the three by a huge margin and without much argument and Briere got to go to the Conference Final twice and the Stanley Cup Final once and seems happy and can call his shots in regards to where the plays during the rest of the current contract.

So yes your statement is true... and yes, the Flyers overpaid... and yes, most.all star athletes are overpaid... and yes, the Flyers also got a reduced price from Briere... and it is all okay because everybody is happy about it... including most Philly fans who are normally hard to make happy... IMO.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 07-16-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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Old
07-16-2011, 07:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Accelleratii View Post
Briere is a beast...
Yes he is

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07-16-2011, 08:24 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FlaFlyersFan View Post
Yes he is
Albeit a little one. Like a opossum, or wolverine.

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
The way I look at it is it's a little complicated in this particular case dues to a few circumstance... The Flyers at that point were coming off a season where the worse team in the NHL by a pretty large margin and were in a large change mode with the management and coaching being changed in season and the team going in a wholesale sell off... The reputation off the team took a huge hit and confidence in a quick turnaround was not there.

The Flyers, normally a team that players wanted join because they knew they would be at least in the hunt every season and were treated well, now had to gain back most of that lost confidence in them and needed players to see that they were not only willing to bring in quality players bu also willing to pay them enough to buy patience and maybe a season or so before they again would contend for the Cup.

At they same time three major number one centers were on the open market and desired greatly by many teams... The Flyers would have to not only pay premium dollars/be competitive but offer perks that would give them an advantage; NMC and a long front-loaded contract were two perks. They also had to convince one of the top UFA centers to play in Philly rather than the other major markets in the hunt.

Turns out Briere took the Flyers deal, which was in total lower, over his hometown Montreal team... and over all else the other teams offered -- I believe at a certain point money is enough and over that point other factors come into play... and Briere felt he had enough cash on the table and went with other factors.

Competing teams will pay what the open market will bear... So is that market price an overpayment or merely the cost of such a player at that time and with those circumstances?

With that I also feel that Free Agency has caused bidding wars and raised the bar in certain years... and when hat happens ALL the players who take advantage of the circumstances are overpaid -- Before FA it was pretty much a play or don't play situation in sports... you sit you get no pay... and the pay was proportionally much lower even when inflation is factored in.

Long story short... for all those who have read this far... Briere got a lot of money and a lot of it upfront for a long period of security and a full no movement clause, but left money on the table to play with the Flyers... The Flyers got the marque player that they wanted from the top three centers and gained credibility and talent while conceding control and having less cap space for others. Turns out that the Flyers got the best of the three by a huge margin and without much argument and Briere got to go to the Conference Final twice and the Stanley Cup Final once and seems happy and can call his shots in regards to where the plays during the rest of the current contract.

So yes your statement is true... and yes, the Flyers overpaid... and yes, most.all star athletes are overpaid... and yes, the Flyers also got a reduced price from Briere... and it is all okay because everybody is happy about it... including most Philly fans who are normally hard to make happy... IMO.
He may not have actually taken less than what the Habs offered due to the QC tax situation. Regardless, he's in the driver's seat for the rest of this contract.

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:49 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
He may not have actually taken less than what the Habs offered due to the QC tax situation. Regardless, he's in the driver's seat for the rest of this contract.
I heard the difference was 2 million more and one additional year on the contract. With the difference in taxes that's probably not an insignificant difference in real salary. That's about as reliable as a Yugo, but it's what I heard.

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07-16-2011, 08:58 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I heard the difference was 2 million more and one additional year on the contract. With the difference in taxes that's probably not an insignificant difference in real salary. That's about as reliable as a Yugo, but it's what I heard.
I think there are also a lot of Quebecois players who don't want to play in Montreal because of the media pressure there. All of that probably factored into his decision.

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07-16-2011, 09:09 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I think there are also a lot of Quebecois players who don't want to play in Montreal because of the media pressure there. All of that probably factored into his decision.
I'd imagine it's a tough spot to raise three kids too (at least as far as NHL players' situations go). It's messy business already with out your children having targets on their backs among their peers.

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07-16-2011, 09:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
I dont think you realize that he's scored 94 points in 93 career playoff games. That's over a point per game for his career.

How many active NHL players are over 1.00 ppg over their career in the playoffs?

Answer: 2 . Danny Briere and Sidney Crosby. That's it.

Not to mention he's done it in Philly as well. In elimination games the numbers are even better

Yeah he's worth every penny and the #'s prove it.
You forgot Ovechkin and Malkin. Danny is just under 1.00 ppg with 96 pts in 97 games.

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07-16-2011, 10:19 PM
  #59
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The only time I question the cap hit of Briere is when I think about signing a higher priced player and wanting to get his salary off the books without having to move several other players. Overall though I think that his production, as long as he's healthy, and the leadership he brings is worth his contract.

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07-16-2011, 10:36 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
You forgot Ovechkin and Malkin. Danny is just under 1.00 ppg with 96 pts in 97 games.
Excluding the six playoff games with the Yotes he has 94 points in 91 Postseason games... At one point this Postseason he was a goal over IIRC but after the Boson series he ended up being one point under the PPG pace... With the Sabres he was exactly at a PPG, and with the Flyers he has been 2 points over that pace.

Oddly enough his NHL Regular Season s% is the exact same as his NHL Postseason one... 15.3%... I believe that would mean that he is shooting at a higher rate per game in the Playoffs. I believe he ups his shots and goal crashing in key games... in the postseason he seems to always be banging and mucking around the crease, or at least more so than he seems to be during the 82 games.

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07-17-2011, 12:12 AM
  #61
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Why are we excluding his six games in Phoenix again?

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07-17-2011, 04:58 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Excluding the six playoff games with the Yotes he has 94 points in 91 Postseason games... At one point this Postseason he was a goal over IIRC but after the Boson series he ended up being one point under the PPG pace... With the Sabres he was exactly at a PPG, and with the Flyers he has been 2 points over that pace.

Oddly enough his NHL Regular Season s% is the exact same as his NHL Postseason one... 15.3%... I believe that would mean that he is shooting at a higher rate per game in the Playoffs. I believe he ups his shots and goal crashing in key games... in the postseason he seems to always be banging and mucking around the crease, or at least more so than he seems to be during the 82 games.
no doubt, these last two years danny has been fearless for as little as he is (and considering thats not really his style)
he really wants a cup while hes in his prime...its obvious at this point.

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07-17-2011, 07:29 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Why are we excluding his six games in Phoenix again?
I was merely eliminating his early seasons before he established himself as an NHL player and while with a bad team prior to the 'New' NHL... I did that for what I felt was a better perspective and just for comparison reasons... once he did establish himself.

Certainly his complete stats stand as what they are... this was merely a comment.

It must be pointed out IMO that his being waived was a wake up call according to Danny and in Buffalo he found his true game under the new rules.

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07-17-2011, 08:24 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Excluding the six playoff games with the Yotes he has 94 points in 91 Postseason games... At one point this Postseason he was a goal over IIRC but after the Boson series he ended up being one point under the PPG pace... With the Sabres he was exactly at a PPG, and with the Flyers he has been 2 points over that pace.

Oddly enough his NHL Regular Season s% is the exact same as his NHL Postseason one... 15.3%... I believe that would mean that he is shooting at a higher rate per game in the Playoffs. I believe he ups his shots and goal crashing in key games... in the postseason he seems to always be banging and mucking around the crease, or at least more so than he seems to be during the 82 games.
I think he pretty much has to seeing he's kinda small and that area hurts. A lot. So he's saving some for when it matters, as most players actually do.

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07-17-2011, 08:41 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
It's hard to go against him when all he does is produce in the playoffs. If you look at his 4 years here(playoffs), he has produced at a high rate in 8 of our 10 playoff series. The only series' where he didn't have a big impact on were the ECF in '08 and this past year vs Boston. He was unreal in the finals two years ago.
So what you're saying is, it's Danny fault we were eliminated in '08 and '11 because he wasn't clutch enough? TRADE HIM!


Last edited by CantSeeColors: 07-17-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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07-17-2011, 12:14 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
You forgot Ovechkin and Malkin. Danny is just under 1.00 ppg with 96 pts in 97 games.
Sorry the article I quoted was wrong.

These are correct. Career playoff ppg of active players (min of 50 points)

1) Ovechkin 1.35
2) Crosby 1.32
3) Malkin 1.18
4) St. Louis 1.08
5) Jagr 1.07
6) Briere .99

Jagr's 39 and 3 years out of the NHL, but what do the other 4 make per year?

Note: Giroux is 38pts in 40 games for a .95ppg. He's only 23 and hasn't played with the best players on his line for the most part.....


Last edited by Guffaw: 07-17-2011 at 12:42 PM.
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07-17-2011, 04:28 PM
  #67
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I think he pretty much has to seeing he's kinda small and that area hurts. A lot. So he's saving some for when it matters, as most players actually do.
Oh I'm not in any way knocking him for that... I think he puts his little frame in harms way the entire season and takes his lumps the entie season... I'm just saying that goes a little harder and the other team does also... IMO Danny smells blood and the opposition does whatever they can get away with and he often gets clobbered.

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07-17-2011, 10:58 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
He may not have actually taken less than what the Habs offered due to the QC tax situation. Regardless, he's in the driver's seat for the rest of this contract.
Actually figured it out a couple years ago, and the after tax value of his Flyers deal is better than the Montral offer.

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07-20-2011, 03:51 PM
  #69
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Trade the Hobbit

Send him to Columbus with "high and wide" surfer boy. We need another larger player at centre.

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07-21-2011, 03:57 AM
  #70
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Was that sarcastic?

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07-22-2011, 04:50 PM
  #71
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lets hope so ...

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07-22-2011, 04:53 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Albeit a little one. Like a opossum, or wolverine.
Or a honey badger. They aren't that big

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07-22-2011, 04:56 PM
  #73
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Was that sarcastic?
I'm never sure anymore around here.

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07-22-2011, 05:18 PM
  #74
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Albeit a little one. Like a opossum, or wolverine.
I the honey badger is a fair comparison?


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07-22-2011, 06:11 PM
  #75
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I the honey badger is a fair comparison?


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