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If Kovalev called PG and offered him 1Y/1M.. Would you?

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Old
07-17-2011, 09:49 AM
  #51
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
It's like you didn't read the post you quoted. I'll explain again.

What Martin will do is unknown to you and me. At any rate, he won't have the same options he had last year. Also one could make the argument that what Martin experimented with in game 7 (ie DD on the wing) is a better measure of what is going to happen in the future than what happened earlier in the year before Martin had the idea of switching DD to wing.

Not only that, but what Martin thinks doesn't matter at all because if you wanna go down that route, then I could make the claim that Martin hates players like Kovalev and likely wouldn't want him at all to play on the third line and would keep him on the 4th line because he's a liability. You see how dumb and useless that argument is ? Neither one of us is in Martin's head, so what Martin thinks doesn't matter since we both don't have a clue what it is. Especially if we're talking about hypothetical situations in the future....

If you reply to me again that you observed something in the past in different circumstances and you've thus figured out exactly what Martin will do in the future despite the fact that's meaningless in our discussion I won't bother with you anymore.
What I said before, is that I think if Martin doesn't want Kovalev he won't be signed here.

Your point, if I understand it correctly, is that the roster is different from last year, so we shouldn't project based on his decisions last year. OK, and I agree. There are two changes imo. First, the addition of Cole means that the threshhold for Darche and Moen to be on the top - 6 is now, at a minimum, one additional injury than last year. Second, Pacioretty will start the season in Montreal, so two additional injuries. That's good.

Right now, when looking at predicted rosters and this could change, it seems that AK46 is the best candidate to join the top-6 when one of Gionta, Cammalleri, Pacioretty, Cole gets injured. That's very good imo. What happens when two of them are injured?

If Desharnais is ready for that role, then management probably knows this.

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07-17-2011, 09:52 AM
  #52
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If he stays unsigned all summer (real possibility), than I wouldn't be opposed to inviting him to training camp and have him try to earn a spot on the team.

I think he could potentially still be useful but strictly as a PP specialist.

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07-17-2011, 10:03 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
What I said before, is that I think if Martin doesn't want Kovalev he won't be signed here.
Of course, that's true for every player. We're discussing what we would like to do. What Martin thinks is useless to the argument because we don't really know what he thinks.

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Your point, if I understand it correctly, is that the roster is different from last year, so we shouldn't project based on his decisions last year. OK, and I agree.
Yes that's part of it.

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There are two changes imo. First, the addition of Cole means that the threshhold for Darche and Moen to be on the top - 6 is now, at a minimum, one additional injury than last year. Second, Pacioretty will start the season in Montreal, so two additional injuries. That's good.

Right now, when looking at predicted rosters and this could change, it seems that AK46 is the best candidate to join the top-6 when one of Gionta, Cammalleri, Pacioretty, Cole gets injured. That's very good imo. What happens when two of them are injured?

If Desharnais is ready for that role, then management probably knows this.
I'd also personally include DD in there as a potential winger option. Martin tried it as his last decision before we were eliminated. It might be indicative of something he wants to try again next year, or might not. Regardless of that... I think a lot of people think DD will play as a winger at times next season if Eller, Plekanec and Gomez are all healthy at the same time.

The point I'm making is very simple...

A lot of people think DD is a preferable option to Darche/Moen as a top 9 winger. What Martin thinks doesn't matter and can't be accurately predicted so it's useless to talk about it especially given that we'd only speculate based on what happened in past circumstances that don't really exist anymore (ie lack of other options to Moen/Darche in the top 9 since no Cole, Injured Cammy, no Pacioretty for half the year, no DD for half the year, etc).

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Old
07-17-2011, 10:30 AM
  #54
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It's incredible how many Don Cherry lovers are on this board!!! It's SOOOO annoying how so many complain about AK46 showing up whenever but none of those people ever complain about Cammalleri when he only "shows up 1 game out of 5".. Kostsytsin has done better than ANY winger except possibly Brian "shoot from the red line" Gionta this year and with half the opportunities a guy like Cammy got! And when people say he doesn't backcheck is annoying.. thank God I get to actually be there at practically every game to really see what is going on and i don't have to listen to benoit brunet's propaganda..

People complain more about the AKs than they do about any NA player including Gomez or whatever with the stupid excuse that at least they try!! I can try as well but I suck.. Talent is also important, specially in a team that is lacking so much of it upfront.

As for Kovalev, I think the reason he was horrible in Ottawa is simple.. It's Ottawa!! I would be depressed as well playing there.. As far as Pittsburgh, he was playing on the left point on the PP (weird) which is why they brought him in.

The only two valid reasons not to bring him here and give him a chance, IF HE WAS THE MOTIVATED ONE, would be taking the place of a young guy and/or potentially being a bad example for the young ones..

I happen to know a few guys that played with him and they all said the same thing about him.. They basically told me that he was simply a very silent independent guy that practices hard and minds his own business. All the him and Koivu hating each other rumors are BS.. He is just a guy that minds his own business..

The part that would work with our team is we desperately need more offense and another to 9 WINGER. DD is not a winger.. In my opinion he needs to compete with the other centers for icetime BUT EVEN if JM dreams of making him the next St-Louis on the wing, WE KNOW FOR SURE WE WILL GET INJURIES and when we do, Darche and Moen don't fit the bill. To win without ANY super elite talent upfront in this league you need 3 LINES that can score.. We are almost there with no injuries but definitely not with as little as one injury..

I would try him if HE CONTACTS PG and seems to be motivated.. The one thing he has in common with our other guys is he has won a cup and he is amazing in the playoffs.. If he is a cancer OR complains or whatever, what is the problem with sitting him out or getting rid of him at 1 mil..

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Old
07-17-2011, 10:36 AM
  #55
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It will never end. I can't wait for Kovalev to retire. It's the only way people will stop wishing for his return. He sucks.

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Old
07-17-2011, 10:43 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KingKovy View Post
It's incredible how many Don Cherry lovers are on this board!!! It's SOOOO annoying how so many complain about AK46 showing up whenever but none of those people ever complain about Cammalleri when he only "shows up 1 game out of 5".. Kostsytsin has done better than ANY winger except possibly Brian "shoot from the red line" Gionta this year and with half the opportunities a guy like Cammy got! And when people say he doesn't backcheck is annoying.. thank God I get to actually be there at practically every game to really see what is going on and i don't have to listen to benoit brunet's propaganda..

People complain more about the AKs than they do about any NA player including Gomez or whatever with the stupid excuse that at least they try!! I can try as well but I suck.. Talent is also important, specially in a team that is lacking so much of it upfront.

As for Kovalev, I think the reason he was horrible in Ottawa is simple.. It's Ottawa!! I would be depressed as well playing there.. As far as Pittsburgh, he was playing on the left point on the PP (weird) which is why they brought him in.

The only two valid reasons not to bring him here and give him a chance, IF HE WAS THE MOTIVATED ONE, would be taking the place of a young guy and/or potentially being a bad example for the young ones..

I happen to know a few guys that played with him and they all said the same thing about him.. They basically told me that he was simply a very silent independent guy that practices hard and minds his own business. All the him and Koivu hating each other rumors are BS.. He is just a guy that minds his own business..

The part that would work with our team is we desperately need more offense and another to 9 WINGER. DD is not a winger.. In my opinion he needs to compete with the other centers for icetime BUT EVEN if JM dreams of making him the next St-Louis on the wing, WE KNOW FOR SURE WE WILL GET INJURIES and when we do, Darche and Moen don't fit the bill. To win without ANY super elite talent upfront in this league you need 3 LINES that can score.. We are almost there with no injuries but definitely not with as little as one injury..

I would try him if HE CONTACTS PG and seems to be motivated.. The one thing he has in common with our other guys is he has won a cup and he is amazing in the playoffs.. If he is a cancer OR complains or whatever, what is the problem with sitting him out or getting rid of him at 1 mil..
very well said.

Kovalev on a 1M$ flyer would be well worth the risk. He's an egnimatic player, but a few things are clear:
- he loves playing in montreal
- his career is very near it's end
- he has played well under just about any style of coach (though it's also true that he's played poorly under just about every coach... always a question of what he decides to do)
- when he's motivated, he's a very dangerous player and a useful asset

adding Kovalev would only give us another offensive weapon, and for a team that struggled so much to score, that's not a bad thing.
with the cap space we do have, a 1yr/1M$ contract is very manageable, even if it doesn't work out and we end up cutting ties with him regardless of the 35+ factor.

all of a sudden we could have 3 very dangerous lines:

Kovalev- Pleks- Kost
MaxPac- Gomez- Gionta
Cammalleri- DD- Cole

it would mean that Eller/DD (and I'd hope Gomez) would have to battle it out for top-9 roles, but injuries are almost a given, including Eller being out to start the season (this would allow the team to be very patient bringing him back, even giving him a solid conditioning stint in the AHL to get back up to speed).

being able to have DD or Eller centre a line with Cammalleri/Cole would be terrific for them, and we'd have a 3-line attack that would cause match-up nightmares for other teams... one of the lines would get to face considerable time against "bottom-pairing" duo's.


with B.Morrison off the market, i'd say that's one of the better options left as far as adding a top-9 UFA to round out our fwd group.

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07-17-2011, 10:46 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
very well said.

Kovalev on a 1M$ flyer would be well worth the risk. He's an egnimatic player, but a few things are clear:
- he loves playing in montreal
- his career is very near it's end
- he has played well under just about any style of coach (though it's also true that he's played poorly under just about every coach... always a question of what he decides to do)
- when he's motivated, he's a very dangerous player and a useful asset

adding Kovalev would only give us another offensive weapon, and for a team that struggled so much to score, that's not a bad thing.
with the cap space we do have, a 1yr/1M$ contract is very manageable, even if it doesn't work out and we end up cutting ties with him regardless of the 35+ factor.

all of a sudden we could have 3 very dangerous lines:

Kovalev- Pleks- Kost
MaxPac- Gomez- Gionta
Cammalleri- DD- Cole


it would mean that Eller/DD (and I'd hope Gomez) would have to battle it out for top-9 roles, but injuries are almost a given, including Eller being out to start the season (this would allow the team to be very patient bringing him back, even giving him a solid conditioning stint in the AHL to get back up to speed).

being able to have DD or Eller centre a line with Cammalleri/Cole would be terrific for them, and we'd have a 3-line attack that would cause match-up nightmares for other teams... one of the lines would get to face considerable time against "bottom-pairing" duo's.


with B.Morrison off the market, i'd say that's one of the better options left as far as adding a top-9 UFA to round out our fwd group.
I stopped reading when i got to the bolded part

The fascination with retreads around here is just...........fascinating

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07-17-2011, 10:53 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
I stopped reading when i got to the bolded part

The fascination with retreads around here is just...........fascinating
I guess your right...

i mean, how stupid was Anaheim to bring back Selanne after he sucked so bad in Colorado, or Carolina for bringing back Cole after he stunk it up in Edmonton

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07-17-2011, 10:57 AM
  #59
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AK-Pleks-Kovy
Cammy-Gomez-Gio
Pac-DD-Cole

Yes

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07-17-2011, 11:02 AM
  #60
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Cammalleri was brought in to replace Kovalev's production, and has done so. He's ~10 years younger, he gets the first line nod over Kovalev.

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07-17-2011, 11:09 AM
  #61
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Nah..

He'd be useless on the third line and not good enough to play on our top 6. So no use for him here.

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07-17-2011, 11:10 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
he'd spend sometimees the full 2 mins on the ice for the PP
In a forum *filled* with people that obviously follow the team quite closely, do you actually think anyone is going to believe this?

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07-17-2011, 11:13 AM
  #63
E = CH²
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Originally Posted by KingKovy View Post
As for Kovalev, I think the reason he was horrible in Ottawa is simple.. It's Ottawa!! I would be depressed as well playing there.. As far as Pittsburgh, he was playing on the left point on the PP (weird) which is why they brought him in.
Or it could just be that he's declining big time. I think it's a better reason than the city he lives in being boring.. common..

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The only two valid reasons not to bring him here and give him a chance, IF HE WAS THE MOTIVATED ONE, would be taking the place of a young guy and/or potentially being a bad example for the young ones..
Well, that's two excellent reasons right there.

But there's also the fact that we don't know if he'll be motivated or not.

We also don't know how him and Martin would work out. I suspect not very well.

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I happen to know a few guys that played with him and they all said the same thing about him.. They basically told me that he was simply a very silent independent guy that practices hard and minds his own business. All the him and Koivu hating each other rumors are BS.. He is just a guy that minds his own business..
Training is not the issue. It's between the ears that's the problem. He wasn't sent home because he's a model player. He's a headcase and he's always been a headcase for coaches. Don't really care what his fellow teammates might or might not have told you.

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The part that would work with our team is we desperately need more offense and another to 9 WINGER. DD is not a winger.. In my opinion he needs to compete with the other centers for icetime BUT EVEN if JM dreams of making him the next St-Louis on the wing, WE KNOW FOR SURE WE WILL GET INJURIES and when we do, Darche and Moen don't fit the bill. To win without ANY super elite talent upfront in this league you need 3 LINES that can score.. We are almost there with no injuries but definitely not with as little as one injury..
Kovalev, at this stage of his career, does not bring offense anymore.

Also, almost no teams have as much depth as you want. We should prepare for injuries in our top 9 by having 12 top 6 players? We're deep enough on O. We have 4 potential top 6 centers (Plek, gomez, Eller, DD). We have 6 potential top 6 wingers (Cammy, Cole, Pacioretty, Gionta, AK and DD). I just don't agree that we're desperate for offense anymore. We were last year, but not this year.

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I would try him if HE CONTACTS PG and seems to be motivated.. The one thing he has in common with our other guys is he has won a cup and he is amazing in the playoffs.. If he is a cancer OR complains or whatever, what is the problem with sitting him out or getting rid of him at 1 mil..
Sending Kovalev to the minors after the season has started or sitting him would be a huge distraction. Have you never followed the habs ? Medias would be all over it and it definitely would become a story. Kovalev would only be a distraction around here, and it would not work out with Martin, and we already have enough top 6 offensive players. People seem to think we'll have Moen/Darche in our top 6 all year still...

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07-17-2011, 11:14 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
In a forum *filled* with people that obviously follow the team quite closely, do you actually think anyone is going to believe this?
are you saying that didn't happen? Kovalev frequently stretched his shifts...it's been a career long issue for him

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07-17-2011, 11:18 AM
  #65
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$1 mil for 40-50 points is a steal.

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07-17-2011, 11:21 AM
  #66
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$1 mil for 40-50 points is a steal.
Not if it comes with drama off the ice, zero defense for a player under Martin and he requires prime ice time both 5v5 and on the PP to make it happen.

Look at the penguins for chrissakes. If there's a team starving for top 6 wingers it's them and they want nothing to do with bringing Kovalev back.

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07-17-2011, 11:26 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I would do it for many reasons:

1) He can't possibly produce badly at 1m and if he did #2
2) You could stop playing him if he were bad, 1 mil @ 1 year = no risk high reward
3) He adds depth, could fill a serious need on our team on the PP. Markov can't do everything and may get injured, he could be our PP insurance policy
4) Adding him allows us more comfort room in case of injuries, without injuries he gives us enough depth to move some pieces around if god forbid some aren't work, like I said though if he's the piece that doesn't work he can retire, be in the press box or go back to Russia.

It's win/win and I never heard anyone ever say they didn't like Kovalev as a teammate and have never heard his "showing up" questioned by teammates or coaches but rather just the media and fans. The whole "shows up 1/5 or 30% of the time" argument is deeply untrue and flawed for Kovalev and especially... reiterating ESPECIALLY for Andrei Kostitsyn. With Kovalev it's an exaggeration but with Kostitsyn it's a big exaggeration and just goes to show the level of bias we have to deal with on these forums against Euro/Russian players.

I'm not saying Kovalev works harder than PK or others but he certainly does show up a lot of nights and it's reflected in his stats. Stats aren't everything but when you're putting up points especially at the later stages of your career on a pretty small habs squad... look at these numbers

Montreal years:

69-23-42-65 -1
73-18-29-47 -19
82-35-49-84 +18
78-26-39-65 -5

If you look

47 + 18 = 65
84 - 19 = 65

So between those two seasons it actually does average out almost identically. He just put up more points in the "second half" of those 164 games.

Looks to me like he had one bad year with us which appears to be an anomaly, reason I say that is luck plays a part. Notice how the year he did badly is followed up by a year where he did amazingly? What are the odds, and then the other two seasons are dead even. What does this mean? Aside from this anomaly season he's been relatively statistically consistent in terms of average 65pts ish.

I fail to see how a 65pt 70-75gp guy is not showing up every game. It's due to this pre-conceived notion that Kovalev is more talented than Mario Lemieux but just chooses not to use this talent every single game. This is absolutely absurd. There are players here still that till this day he had chemistry with. He played well for us and he did some good things for the city. He loves the city and team and even had the balls to say after signing with Ottawa (kind of a dick move ) that Montreal was where he really wanted to play.

The guy has heart no matter how many of you try to make him out to be the heartless slacker he isn't and his stats with our team back it up. The kind of disrespect Kovalev and Kostitsyn get around here is just pathetic. Moen is another player deserving of a lot more respect around here than he gets.

Then Kovalev's Ottawa years playing on a horrible team managed horribly that had one line and Kovalev wasn't on it. Yeah I guess he's supposed to score a lot of goals and rack up assists playing on the PP unit QB'd by a over the hill Gonchar who had inflated stats in Pittsburgh and/or Phillips/Kuba. Give me a break the team is terrible. There's a reason they are too, we have their management that was good and made it to the finals. I have faith this group can learn from past mistakes and bag us a cup.

77-18-31-49 -8
54-14-13-27 -9

One mediocre season followed by another anomaly both being on horrible teams. That doesn't mean Kovalev is finished far from it. I saw him play in Ottawa and he looked like he didn't want to be there.

2-5-7 in 20 games in Pitts isn't great and neither is 1g 1a 2pt in 7 playoff games, but lets not pretend Pittsburgh with all their injuries were doing so hot in the first place. You can't expect Kovalev to carry your team but as a complimentary player, PP specialist, he could still put up great value for 1 million even if it's 20g 15a 35pt -5 in 65-75 games. In the playoffs he'll turn it up for us and like I said depth is key. At 1 million it's an absolute no brainer guys. Sorry but anyone saying no to a 1 mil 1 yr deal for Kovalev is just a hater. Even if he sucks and plays 10 games and retires it was worth a shot, 1 million in cap space for this year won't matter and he'll retire a hab which we all know he wants.

If we gave him 1 year 5 mil I'd be outraged but 1 mil 1 year is too huge of a possible reward to pass up.
very well said,

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07-17-2011, 11:26 AM
  #68
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I guess your right...

i mean, how stupid was Anaheim to bring back Selanne after he sucked so bad in Colorado, or Carolina for bringing back Cole after he stunk it up in Edmonton
Selanne and Kovalev are two entirely different players, his worst year 7 years ago was still better than Kovalev's last season where he was putrid..

Again, have you watched Kovalev play the last 2 years? what has convinced you to think that the decline would just cease just because he's playing in Montreal? You think all of a sudden he's going to learn how to play with his teamates, whoever they are? You think he's going to finally learn that 45 second shifts are optimal for keeping players fresh on the ice? You think he's finally going to get that backchecking is also part of a winger's duties? You think he's finally going to realize that a shot on net, is just as good as taking 1 hour to pick a shot off the crossbar and in?...

There was a time when putting up with Kovalev's high maintenance ways far outweighed being without him, but the Habs have come a long way since there.

and as for Cole played 63 games away from Carolina, not exactly a sufficient sample-size to assert that he 'stunk it up' in Edmonton.

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07-17-2011, 11:27 AM
  #69
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are you saying that didn't happen? Kovalev frequently stretched his shifts...it's been a career long issue for him
He stretched his shifts routinely. But I never recall him spending and entire two minute powerplay on the ice. Not even once.

So yes, I'm saying that *didn't* happen.

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07-17-2011, 11:27 AM
  #70
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For 1m, I would be ok with kovy retiring a hab.
Same here. He gived alot to this organisation

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07-17-2011, 11:28 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
$1 mil for 40-50 points is a steal.
He IS NOT getting 40-50 pts playing 3rd line minutes and 2nd wave or limited PP time.

Pls stop drinking from whatever it is you're drinking

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07-17-2011, 11:28 AM
  #72
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Regardless of what I think (which is "no I wouldn't"), the most outrageous part of this entire scenario is Kovalev signing for $1M. Seriously $1M, that's like going to Dollarama and expecting you can walk out with an iPhone for $1?

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07-17-2011, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
$1 mil for 40-50 points is a steal.
How the hell is Kovalev going to get 40-50pts playing on the 3rd line? When was the last time any Habs player, who played on the 3rd line, had 40-50pts???

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07-17-2011, 11:29 AM
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Worst idea of the summer, the team wouldn't take him if he paid them millions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
In a forum *filled* with people that obviously follow the team quite closely, do you actually think anyone is going to believe this?
You should ask yourself that question. Good job on cutting the whole post to emphasize one part of a phrase btw. Strong post content.

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Old
07-17-2011, 11:31 AM
  #75
417
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
He stretched his shifts routinely. But I never recall him spending and entire two minute powerplay on the ice. Not even once.

So yes, I'm saying that *didn't* happen.
sorry, it may not have been the FULL 2 mins...but at least 1:30 to 1:45. Which to me, means about the same

that *did* happen...and it happened frequently.

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