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Rangers Prospect Poll: #18 TIE-BREAKER

View Poll Results: Who is the #18 Rangers prospect?
Dale Weise 45 57.69%
Mikhail Pashnin 33 42.31%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-17-2011, 06:44 PM
  #1
Beacon
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Rangers Prospect Poll: #18 TIE-BREAKER

After more than 27 hours of voting, Dale Weise and Mikhail Pashnin are tied at 26 votes each, so it's time to do a tie-breaker round.

Dale Weise
Right Wing
Born Aug 5 1988 -- Winnipeg, MAN
Height 6.02 -- Weight 206 -- Shoots R

2010-11 Hartford Wolf Pack/CT Whale AHL 47 18 20 38 73

Tied for AHL lead in shorthanded goals, energy player who has been compared to Callahan by the Rangers. Gordie Clark believes he can score at the NHL level.

"He's very underrated as a goal-scorer, so I would have expected close to 20 in his first year, and I'm not at all surprised he got this many (28) in his second year. I think this is a big off-season for him in getting himself prepared to take a run at a position on the Rangers. He had a great year for us in Hartford... He's got a combination of size and skating. The thing we licked about him in juniors was his penchant for finishing checks. He still does and can pop anybody. He plays an all-around game and plays in all positions."
- Gordie Clark


"I do have some skill, too. I'm not a guy that just fights and mucks. I think I can score, and eventually someday, I can probably score 20 goals in the NHL."
- Dale Weise


__________________________________________________ ____


Mikhail Pashnin
Defense
Born May 11 1989
Height 5.11 -- Weight 187

2010-11 CSKA Moscow KHL 43 2 2 4 38

Hard-hitting defenseman with an all-around game. Similar in style to Scott Stevens, though obviously nowhere near as talented.

"Pashnin is a warrior, who goes all out in games and does everything it takes to win. He is a good influence on his teammates, because he has great character and is a solid, hard-working player... He acclimated very well on the Red Army team and to the big city. Since playing at the KHL level, he has really improved his intensity and quickness. His body-checking has become harder and he plays a stronger physical game. He is a very hard player to play against and he plays with a lot of confidence."
- Vladimir Lutchenko, the Rangers' Russian scout.


"He plays like a North American. I loved what I saw from him in the 2008 Canada-Russia Challenge series. The Canadian players came after the Russians, and this guy just gave it right back to them. He's just a real warrior."
- Gordie Clark in 2010


"The KHL arenas have wider ice, and there's very little hitting, but Pashnin's game is a North American game, and that's why he stood out at Development Camp last year. The way he plays is very North American. Defenseman Mikhail Pashnin, the Rangers' seventh-round pick in the 2009 NHL Entry Draft, celebrates the MHL championship he won with Red Army 2, the top affiliate of CSKA Moscow on April 22, just a few weeks before he turned 22 years old... He came here and he opened a lot of eyes"
- Gordie Clark in 2011

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Old
07-17-2011, 06:46 PM
  #2
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Went with Weise because he has been able to dominate the AHL as a scoring power forward, while Pashnin (at the same age, give or take a few months) is only a borderline KHL player. I bet if Pashnin was the one called up last year, people would see which is better by a mile.

People just have unreasonable hopes for players they have no seen. KHL and AHL are similar quality leagues and Weise is easily a better player at that level. By a mile.

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07-17-2011, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Went with Weise because he has been able to dominate the AHL as a scoring power forward, while Pashnin (at the same age, give or take a few months) is only a borderline KHL player. I bet if Pashnin was the one called up last year, people would see which is better by a mile.

People just have unreasonable hopes for players they have no seen. KHL and AHL are similar quality leagues and Weise is easily a better player at that level. By a mile.
Umm what? Have you ever seen Pashnin play?

The kid has a ton of talent and has been putting it together in the khl which is one of the hardest leagues to play in and better than the AHL. He wasnt a borderline KHLer. He was on the top d pairing then was sent down to play in the playoffs when the main team was eliminated.

Pashnin is a warrior and a player who would add some nice snarl on our back end. Plus his game is tailor made for NA hockey and you can see that every time he plays. I think he will stand out in the ahl.

I like weise alot but i just dont see anything more to him than a 4th line player.

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07-17-2011, 08:24 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Umm what? Have you ever seen Pashnin play?

The kid has a ton of talent and has been putting it together in the khl which is one of the hardest leagues to play in and better than the AHL. He wasnt a borderline KHLer. He was on the top d pairing then was sent down to play in the playoffs when the main team was eliminated.

Pashnin is a warrior and a player who would add some nice snarl on our back end. Plus his game is tailor made for NA hockey and you can see that every time he plays. I think he will stand out in the ahl.

I like weise alot but i just dont see anything more to him than a 4th line player.

In an unrelated post, I wrote that the KHL is superior to the AHL, but not vastly so. Right now, the KHL is not even the middle ground between the AHL and the NHL. If the AHL is zero and the NHL is 100, then the KHL is maybe 15-20.

But when Weise is a proven 30 goal AHL scorer and Pashnin gets sent down to Russian Juniors in the middle of the season, it's clear which of them is better.

I am not talking about the time when Pashnin was sent down after the Red Army team was eliminated. I am talking about his demotion midway through the season. Considering that the Red Army team didn't make the playoffs and was one of the worst teams in the KHL, one would expect that he wouldn't get demoted midway through January. And yes, he was on the top pairing, but it sounds like it happened only because he clicked with another (superior) defenseman, not because he was actually one of the top two defensemen on that non-playoff KHL team. It was something along the lines of Christensen playing on the top line for the Rangers for a while or the way Malik was playing with Rosie on the top pairing.

When the kid is 22 years old and is still an equivalent of Malik/Christ in the KHL, that's not a great NHL prospect.

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07-17-2011, 08:31 PM
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Weise

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07-17-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Umm what? Have you ever seen Pashnin play?

The kid has a ton of talent and has been putting it together in the khl which is one of the hardest leagues to play in and better than the AHL. He wasnt a borderline KHLer. He was on the top d pairing then was sent down to play in the playoffs when the main team was eliminated.

Pashnin is a warrior and a player who would add some nice snarl on our back end. Plus his game is tailor made for NA hockey and you can see that every time he plays. I think he will stand out in the ahl.

I like weise alot but i just dont see anything more to him than a 4th line player.
The guy has been nothing more then a depth d-man in the KHL. As mentioned, he was sent down mid-season. He's an undersized player for his style of play, and apart from playing physical, he doesn't appear to be good at anything else. When you factor in that he is already 22, you have yourself a pretty marginal prospect.

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07-17-2011, 09:27 PM
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Weise.

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07-17-2011, 11:32 PM
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Chalfdiggity3
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You may all be right but i think on a smaller ice surface his game could translate better. If i could i would change my vote now honestly. But i want to see how he plays this year in the AHL before i make up my mind on him.

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07-18-2011, 03:54 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
In an unrelated post, I wrote that the KHL is superior to the AHL, but not vastly so. Right now, the KHL is not even the middle ground between the AHL and the NHL. If the AHL is zero and the NHL is 100, then the KHL is maybe 15-20.

But when Weise is a proven 30 goal AHL scorer and Pashnin gets sent down to Russian Juniors in the middle of the season, it's clear which of them is better.

I am not talking about the time when Pashnin was sent down after the Red Army team was eliminated. I am talking about his demotion midway through the season. Considering that the Red Army team didn't make the playoffs and was one of the worst teams in the KHL, one would expect that he wouldn't get demoted midway through January. And yes, he was on the top pairing, but it sounds like it happened only because he clicked with another (superior) defenseman, not because he was actually one of the top two defensemen on that non-playoff KHL team. It was something along the lines of Christensen playing on the top line for the Rangers for a while or the way Malik was playing with Rosie on the top pairing.

When the kid is 22 years old and is still an equivalent of Malik/Christ in the KHL, that's not a great NHL prospect.
well every now and then, he has to defend against Jagr, Radulov, and other players with top NHL level talent. Let's not pretend like Jagr is easy to defend against. That said, he is still raw. And we are talking about, what... spot 18 or 19 on the list?

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07-18-2011, 05:31 AM
  #10
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Dale Weise's upside = Jason Ward.
Mikhail Pashnin = Vladimir Denisov, maybe. (He played for Hartford a few years ago.)

I voted Weise. Forgive me, but I'm not excited by this tie-breaker.

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07-18-2011, 06:05 AM
  #11
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Weise. I think he has a shot at being a solid player for this team.

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07-18-2011, 11:06 AM
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WOW Pashnin is getting such a raw deal in this poll. He should be so much higher than he is. This guy was drafted #1 overall in the KHL draft and he wrecks people. Fans are going to be SOOOOO surprised come camp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
Dale Weise's upside = Jason Ward.
Mikhail Pashnin = Vladimir Denisov, maybe. (He played for Hartford a few years ago.)

I voted Weise. Forgive me, but I'm not excited by this tie-breaker.
Correction
Mikhail Pashnin = Darius Kasparaitis, (He played for Hartford a few years ago.)

Dale Weise skates too slow to be like Jason Ward.


Last edited by vipernsx: 07-18-2011 at 11:15 AM.
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07-18-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
WOW Pashnin is getting such a raw deal in this poll. He should be so much higher than he is. This guy was drafted #1 overall in the KHL draft and he wrecks people. Fans are going to be SOOOOO surprised come camp.
While I do think Pashnin is a very good player, I must point out that the KHL draft is a gimmick, it means nothing, all the top Russian prospects are already locked up in the junior systems of their respective clubs, and aren't in the draft

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07-18-2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
WOW Pashnin is getting such a raw deal in this poll. He should be so much higher than he is. This guy was drafted #1 overall in the KHL draft and he wrecks people. Fans are going to be SOOOOO surprised come camp.
He was drafted 1st overall in the KHL because it was the 1st ever KHL draft. All of the KHL teams protected all their best players and then held a "draft" to redistribute the rest.

He was drafted in the 7th round in the NHL draft, and not only because of the Russian factor.

Pashnin is currently not under contract. How anyone can think he's a better prospect that Weise, given what Weise has done in the AHL, is beyond me. Weise should be higher than 18th, but I guess other prospects are newer and shinier.

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07-18-2011, 12:26 PM
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He was drafted 1st overall in the KHL because it was the 1st ever KHL draft. All of the KHL teams protected all their best players and then held a "draft" to redistribute the rest.
Yeah like I said, it's a joke. This year someone drafted Huberdeau at #6 I mean come on wtf? They draft players who there is no chance in hell of them going to play in Russia, because there is no decent Russian talent left so theyjust think **** it and draft someone from NA

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07-18-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
WOW Pashnin is getting such a raw deal in this poll. He should be so much higher than he is. This guy was drafted #1 overall in the KHL draft and he wrecks people. Fans are going to be SOOOOO surprised come camp.




Correction
Mikhail Pashnin = Darius Kasparaitis, (He played for Hartford a few years ago.)

Dale Weise skates too slow to be like Jason Ward.
Lol.

The KHL draft is a joke, and going #1 overall means absolutely nothing. Every player that age is already committed to an organization by the time they are eligible for the draft.

I will make this bold statement right now: Pashnin will never play in the NHL on a consistent basis, ever. It's ridiculous how a few prospect camps where he played physical (obviously he is going to play physical, he's low on the totem pole and he wants to draw attention) have gotten him with our fan base.

I'm low on Weise as well, but he's still a much better prospect then Pashnin.

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07-18-2011, 01:44 PM
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I think those articles by the Rangers' website also helped inflate how good he really is. No one ever talked about him until that first article last year came out.

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07-18-2011, 01:54 PM
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I think those articles by the Rangers' website also helped inflate how good he really is. No one ever talked about him until that first article last year came out.
Thats not true. People were talking about Pashnin a couple of years ago when he was 20yo. Regardless, the kid is good and i truly believe he will surprise ALOT of you folks this season playing in the AHL. Only time will tell tho.

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07-18-2011, 02:05 PM
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please add: "who cares?"

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07-18-2011, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Thats not true. People were talking about Pashnin a couple of years ago when he was 20yo. Regardless, the kid is good and i truly believe he will surprise ALOT of you folks this season playing in the AHL. Only time will tell tho.
Yeah, people were talking about him because we had just drafted him when he was a 20 year old. No one really thought anything of the pick, he was barely known in his own country. No one in this forum began thinking of him as a legit prospect until that first PR article came out.

To me, it's utterly ridiculous that Weise, for all he has accomplished in the AHL, has fallen this low, much less fighting it out with a guy like Pashnin.

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07-18-2011, 03:02 PM
  #21
Jxmarts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
WOW Pashnin is getting such a raw deal in this poll. He should be so much higher than he is. This guy was drafted #1 overall in the KHL draft and he wrecks people. Fans are going to be SOOOOO surprised come camp.


Correction
Mikhail Pashnin = Darius Kasparaitis, (He played for Hartford a few years ago.)

Dale Weise skates too slow to be like Jason Ward.

Actually, Vladimir Denisov was a fiesty undersized D-man too, much like a poor man's Kasparaitis. One step at a time, though... let's see if Pashnin gets signed, makes the Whale, and has the kind of season Denisov did in 2008-09 (62 games, 20 points, 117 pim, +18).

I don't see how you can realistically compare an unsigned 7th round pick to a young Kasparaitis, who was the 5th overall pick in the 1992 NHL draft and wound up playing 863 NHL games. But if you're saying Pashnin equals the Kasparaitis that finished up his North American career in Hartford, then yes, you're probably right.


I won't take credit for the Jason Ward / Dale Weise comparison because someone else made it first, but I think it's accurate to say that Weise's upside probably matches Ward's. Ward had a couple of nice years in the minors in the Montreal system, but he gave up trying to play aggressively because he just wasn't cut out for it. I don't see Weise being effective as a banger either. Is Weise too slow to be like Ward? Jason Ward was no blazer. Ward's best NHL season actually was with the Rangers when he had 10 goals & 18 assists. If Weise ever manages to earn a spot in the NHL as a bottom 6 winger, I imagine he may top out at that.

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07-18-2011, 03:32 PM
  #22
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Looks like Weise won the tie-breaker by a decent margin. There's no way Pashnin makes up 12 votes this late in the poll. Please move on to Round 19.

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