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Nazem Kadri for Kyle Turris?

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:59 AM
  #426
Carolinas Identity
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Kadri should (and probably will) turn into a very productive 2nd liner, the hate he gets here is pretty unfounded, but he DOES need to work on defence and has to learn how to pass. That being said, he's a decent talent, but comparing him to Stamkos, Hall, Duchene, Skinner etc etc...?

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07-19-2011, 10:38 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by lance uppercut 83 View Post
it's true his defensive play was the reason he was sent down to the marlies at the beginning of the season. however, if you actually watched him play, once he was called back up his play was much improved. he was making smart plays and limiting his turnovers. if anything this kid has shown he's coachable, willing to do whatever it takes to make the NHL and he's not the defensive liabilty everyone around here wishes he was.

the bolded part is just flat out idiotic. kadri is a pass first type player and the reputation he has around here as a pug hog is absolutely hillarious. just goes to show you don't even watch the player but act like you have the entire scouting report on him. kadri set up some nice goals in hi short 30 game rookie season, one that just popped into my head was a slick no look pass to macarthur near the end of the season. i could probably dig up a few more on youtube too, if i cared enough. his passing along with his stickhandling are easily his strong points. thanks for coming out though.

this season can't start soon enough.
you could not have watched him play if you think he is PASS FIRST. He is not as good as you think. I watched him in the OHL for two years and i watched him on the leafs. The leafs need to draft better players in the First Round i do not like how they draft.

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07-19-2011, 11:07 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by rick3652 View Post
you could not have watched him play if you think he is PASS FIRST. He is not as good as you think. I watched him in the OHL for two years and i watched him on the leafs. The leafs need to draft better players in the First Round i do not like how they draft.
By god, with your level of drafting expertise, you should go above Brian Burke's head, directly to Cliff Fletcher and demand to be placed on the scouting staff.

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07-19-2011, 11:09 AM
  #429
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If this rumour does have any truth to do it, I have no idea which way I would be leaning. Absolutely love both players. But maybe since the Leafs need a real number one center, and eventually Turris can become that, I go with Turris. I'm ecstatic to have Naz though.

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07-19-2011, 11:13 AM
  #430
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I hope this happens from a Sens fan point of view, because I simply can't stand Kadri's face so I wont be seeing him 4 times a season.

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07-19-2011, 11:45 AM
  #431
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rick3652 you could not have watched him play if you think he is PASS FIRST
Could not agree more with you. He did pass pretty well to the other team while manning the point on the powerplay to set up lots of short-handed chances. Other than that, Kadri was like a lone wolf with the puck and his linemates really didn't need to go down the ice with him. I too saw him for 2 years with the Knights and man I wished Hunter would have traded him to get something in his last year to stock the cupboard for the future.
All I know is I hope Montreal never gets him. I hope he stays with the Leafs as that will put Montreal ahead of the Leafs in the standings every year.

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07-19-2011, 12:07 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton;35165625[B
FWIW, I think looking at OHL playoff stats is a very flawed way of comparing prospects. The sample size, age, team-mates, huge variation in the level of play in the OHL, etc... can have a dramatic impact. A player can dominate in the OHL and even dominate in the AHL, and never make a good pro (and visa versa). [/B]
Just for argument's sake, prove this while using Kadri as an example. I will even allow you to use any first rd pick as far as 10 years back to 01-02 and not limit it to #7th overall. Just how many flawed prospects that finished in the top 10 in scoring are there. I'll start you off at Shremp, when you have your results compare the one's that made it to the one's that didn't.

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07-19-2011, 12:19 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Wow a tad upset today are we?

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers guy, all Im saying is Kadri is a good all around player but doesnt have anything elite in his 'tool box'.. And since you brought up Seguin lets discuss, you're right maybe Seguin becomes nothing more than a 3rd line winger.. but at least we see game breaking speed & dynamic shot in his game already. He's extremely raw, but he's consistently shown elite speed & shot. Hey maybe it never materializes to anything, but its there. I just dont see anything 'elite' to Kadris' game yet.
Kadri is a fantastic passer, has great hands, and a killer instinct.

He's working on his defense, and needs to find the right balance of strength and agility, but he's gonna be a hell of a player.

I've got nothing against Turris, but there's no way I do this deal if I'm Burke. Leafs won't need their center prospects to step up for another 2 years- by then Kadri will be bigger, stronger, and more defensively aware- he'll probably be ready to switch back to center, and if not, we also have McKegg and Colborne.

There's no reason to give up on Kadri for a guy who's development has stalled a bit, just because he's a center, and Kadri has been temporarily moved to wing- something Turris would need to do to crack TO's line-up anyways.

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07-19-2011, 12:23 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
I hope this happens from a Sens fan point of view, because I simply can't stand Kadri's face so I wont be seeing him 4 times a season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootscores View Post
rick3652 you could not have watched him play if you think he is PASS FIRST
Could not agree more with you. He did pass pretty well to the other team while manning the point on the powerplay to set up lots of short-handed chances. Other than that, Kadri was like a lone wolf with the puck and his linemates really didn't need to go down the ice with him. I too saw him for 2 years with the Knights and man I wished Hunter would have traded him to get something in his last year to stock the cupboard for the future.
All I know is I hope Montreal never gets him. I hope he stays with the Leafs as that will put Montreal ahead of the Leafs in the standings every year.
Lmao blind hatred

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Old
07-19-2011, 12:25 PM
  #435
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Kadri is a great passer, if he knows that the pass is going to look better than the goal. Or else he'd rather just score.

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07-19-2011, 12:31 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by The Chiddler View Post
Lmao blind hatred
Cry much.

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Old
07-19-2011, 12:41 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Just for argument's sake, prove this while using Kadri as an example. I will even allow you to use any first rd pick as far as 10 years back to 01-02 and not limit it to #7th overall. Just how many flawed prospects that finished in the top 10 in scoring are there. I'll start you off at Shremp, when you have your results compare the one's that made it to the one's that didn't.
I'm not sure which side you're on, but I'm game:

Eric Staal finished 7th in his draft year.
Bobby Ryan finished 6th, 10th and 8th in his last 3 years.
Patrick Kane finished 1st in his only OHL season
Sam Gagner finished 5th in the same year
Logan Couture finished 9th in 2009.

The last 3 drafts really should count, as most of the players haven't had a real chance to show how good they are, so that's about it for top-10 finished in OHL points while being drafted in the top-10 in the draft. Other than Gagner, all of them have went onto pretty good careers so far, and two have won Cups as key players.

Outside top 10 shouldn't really count, so I'm ignoring Schremp, Wolski and others.

There's not many players that were drafted top 10 and finished top-10 in points in the OHL ever that even became a less than expected player. Of course, this doesn't mean that Kadri is definitely going to be good, but I do think the fact that he was drafted high (thereby the scouts liked him as a player) and he got points (which means he has offensive talent) means there's probably a better chance that he will.

With all that said, however, no team would still trade anything of certain value for him right now, IMO.

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Old
07-19-2011, 12:52 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
I'm not sure which side you're on, but I'm game:

Eric Staal finished 7th in his draft year.
Bobby Ryan finished 6th, 10th and 8th in his last 3 years.
Patrick Kane finished 1st in his only OHL season
Sam Gagner finished 5th in the same year
Logan Couture finished 9th in 2009.

The last 3 drafts really should count, as most of the players haven't had a real chance to show how good they are, so that's about it for top-10 finished in OHL points while being drafted in the top-10 in the draft. Other than Gagner, all of them have went onto pretty good careers so far, and two have won Cups as key players.

Outside top 10 shouldn't really count, so I'm ignoring Schremp, Wolski and others.

There's not many players that were drafted top 10 and finished top-10 in points in the OHL ever that even became a less than expected player. Of course, this doesn't mean that Kadri is definitely going to be good, but I do think the fact that he was drafted high (thereby the scouts liked him as a player) and he got points (which means he has offensive talent) means there's probably a better chance that he will.

With all that said, however, no team would still trade anything of certain value for him right now, IMO.
I'm on the right side, the point of this excercise for him is for every one rob shremp 25th pick not #7 overall there are are more perry's and or the players you named or are named in your list. Making kadri very likely to be less a bust and more of a boom pick. The relation of scoring playoffs or regular season to 1st rd picks is a very reliable indicator.

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07-19-2011, 12:58 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
So if I understand you correctly, what you are concluding from your OHL Playoff stats analysis is that Kadri will be a better player than Duchene, Stamkos, Seguin and Taveres...and on par with Skinner and Hall?

Is that what you are saying?
What I take from those numbers he posted is there is a stronger probability Kadri turns into a bonafide 70+ point player, than him fizzing out. HF seems to believe the latter and those statistics help to support the former.

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07-19-2011, 01:06 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Cry much.
lmao that was my 1st post in the thread and I thought it was pretty funny to see those 2 posts together.

Calm down buddy, how bout you cry more about having to see Kadri in your division

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Old
07-19-2011, 01:37 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by rick3652 View Post
you could not have watched him play if you think he is PASS FIRST. He is not as good as you think. I watched him in the OHL for two years and i watched him on the leafs. The leafs need to draft better players in the First Round i do not like how they draft.
i watched him in london and he was pretty much given free reign to do whatever he wanted. thats more the coaching staff's fault than his own. what a player can get away with in junior is alot different from the NHL. i guess in your fantasy world every player in the NHL plays exactly the same as they did at age 18, never growing or developing from that point on?

i watched every single leafs game this season so i saw plenty of him. in the beginning he looked out of place. too weak on the puck, making high risk plays, etc. all things you would expect from a rookie. never once was he shooting too much, if anything he was passing too much and trying to force plays. then he was sent back down to work on his overall game and strength. when he came back he was a much different player. he was on pace for the same amount of shots on goal (around 150) as clarke macarthur, whos considered the "pass first" playmaker on his line.

if it makes you feel better to come in here and look for any reason you can to make leafs fans think kadri is a bust, great, i'm happy for you. at least get your facts straight and watch the kid play at the NHL level before you come around pretending to know what you're talking about. you claim to have watched him at the NHL level but judging from your comments that's complete BS. you're just going off what he did in junior and assuming/wishing he's the same player.

what exactly is wrong with the leafs drafting? schenn was a solid 1st round pick. steen and coliacovo turned out to be decent NHLers. a 30 goal scorer in kulemin taken in the 2nd round. kaberle and gunnarsson were late picks. sounds good to me considering the lack of 1st round picks the leafs have had in recent history.

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Old
07-19-2011, 01:47 PM
  #442
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I know there are arguments both ways but I've been a fan of Turris for a while and the thoughts of our top 2 centers being Colborne and Turris REALLY sounds good to me

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07-19-2011, 01:53 PM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'm on the right side, the point of this excercise for him is for every one rob shremp 25th pick not #7 overall there are are more perry's and or the players you named or are named in your list. Making kadri very likely to be less a bust and more of a boom pick. The relation of scoring playoffs or regular season to 1st rd picks is a very reliable indicator.
Understood and agreed.

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Old
07-19-2011, 01:53 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I'm on the right side, the point of this excercise for him is for every one rob shremp 25th pick not #7 overall there are are more perry's and or the players you named or are named in your list. Making kadri very likely to be less a bust and more of a boom pick. The relation of scoring playoffs or regular season to 1st rd picks is a very reliable indicator.
Let me clarify a few things. First off, I'm not one that thinks Kadri will be a bust. I think at worst case he'll end up being a solid 2nd line player. I think he is a skilled player who needs time to develop (both physically and game-wise). I am not a "Kadri hater" so if you think I am coming from that angle, then you are sadly mistaken.

Second, your original email implied that Kadri would be better than all the players you listed. You implied this by stating (and I quote): "The definitive measure of a player is how they produce in the playoffs". Then went on to show how Kadri was number 1 in Playoff PPG on that list. By stating it is the "definitive measure" and then listing Kadri as #1 in PPG, it is reasonable to assume that you are stating that Kadri will be a better pro than the others you listed.

My original response was simply asking if you truly believed Kadri would be a better NHL player than those others you listed. Basically asking you to clarify and state your opinion in this matter, rather than throwing out data and skirting the issue. In the end, you still never answered that...which is fine.

If you truly feel that Kadri will be better than all of those based on OHL playoff PPG numbers, then I disagree and think you are over-estimating the impact of OHL Playoff PPG. If you are just saying that this data makes Kadri more likely to be a solid NHL player than a bust (like you just did in this most recent post), then fine and I have no problem with it and wouldn't have even responded, but that's not what you posted nor implied in your original post.

Anyhow, I think I've wasted enough time discussing a prospect that I neither like nor dislike. I guess I was just bored with it being off-season and all

Edit: I guess I should at least comment on the trade speculation. I have no idea why either team would entertain this. Turris seems like he might be finally turning the corner and I think Phoenix is looking to see him take the next step. Kadri has been the top prospect for Toronto and is still developing so why give up on him before he even has a chance. Seems like a fruitless, lateral trade (at best) move.


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Old
07-19-2011, 01:56 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
What I take from those numbers he posted is there is a stronger probability Kadri turns into a bonafide 70+ point player, than him fizzing out. HF seems to believe the latter and those statistics help to support the former.
It's just common sense, obviously it isn't an exact science, but the OHL is a very reliable league developing NHL talent. For every sceptic that points to Wolski or Schremp, I can point out 10+ names that have done very well in the NHL. Rick Nash
Eric Staal, Dustin Brown, Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Patrick Kane, Bobby Ryan, Jeff carter, Jeff Skinner, Taylor Hall, Matt Duchene ect...The odds that Kadri will succeed are very much in his favour. Will he be as good as the majority of these players on the list? Probably not, but given he has played only 30 NHL games, he can change a lot of people's opinion if he plays to his OHL form.

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07-19-2011, 01:57 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
I hope this happens from a Sens fan point of view, because I simply can't stand Kadri's face so I wont be seeing him 4 times a season.
But when PHX moves to Quebec you will

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Old
07-19-2011, 02:05 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Let me clarify a few things. First off, I'm not one that thinks Kadri will be a bust. I think at worst case he'll end up being a solid 2nd line player. I think he is a skilled player who needs time to develop (both physically and game-wise). I am not a "Kadri hater" so if you think I am coming from that angle, then you are sadly mistaken.

Second, your original email implied that Kadri would be better than all the players you listed. You implied this by stating (and I quote): "The definitive measure of a player is how they produce in the playoffs". Then went on to show how Kadri was number 1 in Playoff PPG on that list. By stating it is the "definitive measure" and then listing Kadri as #1 in PPG, it is reasonable to assume that you are stating that Kadri will be a better pro than the others you listed.

My original response was simply asking if you truly believed Kadri would be a better NHL player than those others you listed. Basically asking you to clarify and state your opinion in this matter, rather than throwing out data and skirting the issue. In the end, you still never answered that...which is fine.

If you truly feel that Kadri will be better than all of those based on OHL playoff PPG numbers, then I disagree and think you are over-estimating the impact of OHL Playoff PPG. If you are just saying that this data makes Kadri more likely to be a solid NHL player than a bust (like you just did in this most recent post), then fine and I have no problem with it and wouldn't have even responded, but that's not what you posted nor implied in your original post.

Anyhow, I think I've wasted enough time discussing a prospect that I neither like nor dislike. I guess I was just bored with it being off-season and all
Really Kadri has played 30 NHL games in the NHL, you were asking me a question you knew the answer to, this is why I didn't play along. I have never seen a player this unfairly judged this summer based on 1/3rd a season, where he was treated like a yo yo by Leafs Mgt. All I am saying is people should give this player a full season to judge instead of saying he doesn't belong with some of the players mentioned. Fact is it is too early to tell just what type of impact he will have in the NHL. If Kyle Turris is still seen as a great prospect after playing 131 NHL games, 2 additional years of development than Kadri, then why are people so quick to think Kadri(and I know you just said you don't)is a bust.

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07-19-2011, 02:10 PM
  #448
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All I am saying is people should give this player a full season to judge instead of saying he doesn't belong with some of the players mentioned. Fact is it is too early to judge.
No argument there. Personally I think people on these boards judge boom or bust way too soon. I wouldn't even cast final judgment on Kadri after 1 season. Some guys (Andrew Ladd and Justin Williams are prime examples) just take more time to develop.

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07-19-2011, 02:11 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Really Kadri has played 30 NHL games in the NHL, you were asking me a question you knew the answer to, this is why I didn't play along. I have never seen a player this unfairly judged this summer based on 1/3rd a season, where he was treated like a yo yo by Leafs Mgt. All I am saying is people should give this player a full season to judge instead of saying he doesn't belong with some of the players mentioned. Fact is it is too early to tell just what type of impact he will have in the NHL. If Kyle Turris is still seen as a great prospect after playing 131 NHL games, 2 additional years of development than Kadri, then why are people so quick to think Kadri(and I know you just said you don't)is a bust.
Because he's a Leaf.

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07-19-2011, 02:11 PM
  #450
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Let this thread die.

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