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McD + for MPS - would you do it?

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:49 AM
  #76
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I came to this thread to read people's assessment of the trade proposal. Sadly, it seems people are unable to argue their points without getting personal. In the end, everyone will believe what they believe.

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07-19-2011, 09:56 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You're talking about looking in the mirror and knowing it all?

Talk about hypocrisy.

First off, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Ola.

Second, I don't give a **** when you were born. There are a vast number of people who know more then you do, despite their age, they don't need to put "Boom "Boom" in their screen name to make them feel more privileged because of their age. You have been "watching" hockey for so long and you still don't understand the value of a defenseman over a winger, one that isn't "elite" for that matter.

Third, because you have a differing opinion, doesn't mean you need to post pictures of books to make your point. Its pathetic. And you look more like a teenage child then the old wise man you want to believe you are.
It doesn't matter who you were talking to. And it doesn't matter which thread you were saying it in. The lining of each and every single one of your posts can best be described as a know-it-all. You don't give yourself the benefit of doubt by posting things like "I think" or "imo". Instead, you throw around your opinions like they're facts.

MPS doesn't have to be elite to be a likely candidate for this team going forward. McDonagh will never be elite at anything, so I don't see where the problem with this proposal is.

It's more of the same with you. Overrate our guys, and underrate the outsiders. I tend to overhype and overrate my guys too, because, unfortunately, I can be a bit of a homer. But I watch enough hockey outside the Rangers to have an idea of how good a player is, and can be.

The swap I took at you about your age/experience was meant as some food for thought. When you go around telling people what wins games, it's kind of a slap in the face to them considering they already know what wins games. They don't need your proffesional outlook. Your tutoring. Your mentoring. Ola's been watching the game longer than both of us. Is he that ****ing stupid where he needs a lesson from someone half his junior?

Fact is MPS can potentially impact this team more than a guy like McDonagh. You can't argue this. The gears in motion within our organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Only a fool would assume a scoring winger like MPS isn't as vital as a second-pairing LD.

Would I pull the trigger on this trade? Maybe. There are quite a few variables that i'm oblivious to at this very point of the season. If Erixon and Del Zotto are ready to game this fall, then a McD/MPS swap has its merits.


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07-19-2011, 10:03 AM
  #78
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Every team needs 4 top 4 dmen. We have 4 (Staal, Girardi, McD and Sauer). Until someone else PROVES that they can handle top 4 minutes, none of them are expendable.

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07-19-2011, 10:08 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I maybe the minority here, but I'd seriously consider it, as long as the "+" wasn't significant.

You guys are heavily underrating MPS. While I think McD is going to be a fantastic dmen, we have guys in our system who can replace him.

Staal-Girardi
Erixon-Sauer
Del Z-Snuffleuffigus
Chill fellas, it is July!
Anyway...This above was a bit of my reasoning here when I made the proposal. Not that I at all advocate the trade of McD really, who looked great as a rookie. Just that it would in theory fill a void up front that we have that MIGHT be able to fill from within in a year or two...given we need a stopgap maybe now.

Better yet might be to suggest MDZ + our 2012 1st round pick? for MPS and EDMs second rounder (3rd?) in 2012. How does that sound? Doubt EDM would do it though - as they are more looking for some ready pieces to fill out their young team with. Their main need is nonetheless now on the D...

RBs Fistric for Christ deal would then be a good one too imo...

I drool a bit at this theoretical lineup:

FORWARDS
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson ($1.525m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.000m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.000m)
Wojtek Wolski ($3.800m) => Chris Kreider in 2012/ Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m) => Christian Thomas in 2012
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) => Carl Hagelin in 2012/ John Mitchell or Kris Newbury (MAX $0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / Mark Fistric ($1.000m) => McIllwrath in 2012/2013
Pavel Valentenko ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($0.875m)

BUYOUTS
Chris Drury ($3.716m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000
CAP PAYROLL: $63,145,834
BONUSES: $1,900,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,154,166

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07-19-2011, 10:09 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Every team needs 4 top 4 dmen. We have 4 (Staal, Girardi, McD and Sauer). Until someone else PROVES that they can handle top 4 minutes, none of them are expendable.
This is what it really boils down to. It's mis-management to make a McDonagh-Paajarvi swap at this juncture -- it would make more sense next offseason, if Erixon proved himself capable of top-4 minutes. Even then, why trade either? You could potentially have a 1st pair caliber defenseman on each pairing -- that's the kind of depth that wins you championships.

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07-19-2011, 10:27 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
It doesn't matter who you were talking to. And it doesn't matter which thread you were saying it in. The lining of each and every single one of your posts can best be described as a know-it-all. You don't give yourself the benefit of doubt by posting things like "I think" or "imo". Instead, you throw around your opinions like they're facts.

MPS doesn't have to be elite to be a likely candidate for this team going forward. McDonagh will never be elite at anything, so I don't see where the problem with this proposal is.

It's more of the same with you. Overrate our guys, and underrate the outsiders. I tend to overhype and overrate my guys too, because, unfortunately, I can be a bit of a homer. But I watch enough hockey outside the Rangers to have an idea of how good a player is, and can be.

The swap I took at you about your age/experience was meant as some food for thought. When you go around telling people what wins games, it's kind of a slap in the face to them considering they already know what wins games. They don't need your proffesional outlook. Your tutoring. Your mentoring. Ola's been watching the game longer than both of us. Is he that ****ing stupid where he needs a lesson from someone half his senior?

Fact is MPS can potentially impact this team more than a guy like McDonagh. You can't argue this. The gears in motion within our organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Only a fool would assume a scoring winger like MPS isn't as vital as a second-pairing LD.

Would I pull the trigger on this trade? Maybe. There are quite a few variables that i'm oblivious to at this very point of the season. If Erixon and Del Zotto are ready to game this fall, then a McD/MPS swap has its merits.
"You can't debate it".

And you say other people "know it all".

Im not going to get into a drawn out argument here.

Again, if you don't like my opinion, don't read it. Plain and simple.

Ola and I have had many debates on these boards, and never has it been personal. And neither was this one. We are allowed to argue our opinions without an intermediary.

Im 100% positive Ola and I have a mutual respect.

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07-19-2011, 10:30 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Every team needs 4 top 4 dmen. We have 4 (Staal, Girardi, McD and Sauer). Until someone else PROVES that they can handle top 4 minutes, none of them are expendable.
I don't think many people here would jump on this trade unless they actually see how the players in discussion look early on in the season. I certainly wouldn't.

This hypothetical scenario is based on a number of assumptions. If MPS was available for a dmen. If Del Zotto plays steadier than his sophomore season. If Erixon can make that transition to the NHL. Lot's of If's.

Quality proposal, imo. Value wise it's excellent (unless you're an Oilers fan). Putting value aside though, I think it also makes sense, if those "If's" come to fruition.

Is it unrealistic to assume Del Zotto becomes a bona fide NHL player this season? I'm not the most optimistic guy in the world, especially when it comes down to this team, but I can't imagine how MDZ's not ready this year.

I don't have the slightest clue with Erixon though. People here swear he's not only NHL ready, but more.

Like I said, we would have to see how all the players in discussion look in camp, preseason, and regular season.

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07-19-2011, 10:36 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Not sure that's true. While it's too early to know for sure, everything I've heard about Erixon leads me to believe that he can be just as good, if not better.
If thats true then why trade him for a redundate peice in MPS when krieder will be him in the nhl next year?

Could you image having a young D-Core of Staal, Mcdonagh, Erixon - all being top pairing dmen, with guys like McIlrath, Sauer and MDZ being added to them.. That would then make Girardi expendable in a year or two, where he will be turning 29. We can then deal Girardi with some other peices for a major upgrade on offense.

Im just not cool with getting rid of one of the best young defenders we have had since Marc Staal. I believe Erixon and Mcdonagh will challenge Staal eventually.

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07-19-2011, 10:45 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
"You can't debate it".
Quote:
Fact is MPS can potentially impact this team more than a guy like McDonagh
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And you say other people "know it all".
This line doesn't make me a knowitall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Im not going to get into a drawn out argument here.

Again, if you don't like my opinion, don't read it. Plain and simple.

Ola and I have had many debates on these boards, and never has it been personal. And neither was this one. We are allowed to argue our opinions without an intermediary.

Im 100% positive Ola and I have a mutual respect.
I think we're having a discussion. Not an argument. It's not even about your direct post to Ola. It has more to do with the way you carry some of your opinions. It's kind of hard to take someone seriously when they firmly believe a prospect like Kreider is not only ready for the NHL, but ready for a 1st line role. Or that a prospect like McDonagh is that much more valuable to this team than a player like MPS would. Or that nobody in our pipe-line can potentially replace him.

This doesn't mean I would pull the trigger on the OP's proposal. Based on the players ceilings, and our organizations strengths/weakness's, it's an interesting idea that could benefit our team and ultimately improve it. I can't imagine how anyone could argue this. Again, it's all hypothetical, but the odds of those "if's" pan out aren't that far-fetched.

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07-19-2011, 10:51 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
This line doesn't make me a knowitall.



I think we're having a discussion. Not an argument. It's not even about your direct post to Ola. It has more to do with the way you carry some of your opinions. It's kind of hard to take someone seriously when they firmly believe a prospect like Kreider is not only ready for the NHL, but ready for a 1st line role. Or that a prospect like McDonagh is that much more valuable to this team than a player like MPS would. Or that nobody in our pipe-line can potentially replace him.

This doesn't mean I would pull the trigger on the OP's proposal. Based on the players ceilings, and our organizations strengths/weakness's, it's an interesting idea that could benefit our team and ultimately improve it. I can't imagine how anyone could argue this. Again, it's all hypothetical, but the odds of those "if's" pan out aren't that far-fetched.
Do you take Gordie Clark's opinion seriously? Because he said Kreider is ready and said Kreider could step into the NHL.

Look at the "Miller" thread. Rangerboy posted a video interview with Clark and Gorton.

Just because I have a passionate opinion, or feel passionately about hockey, doesn't mean I believe I know everything.

If you don't want a personal argument, then please don't try making personal attacks. I don't want or need any personal arguments, vendettas, or attacks.

Talking hockey is one thing. Having strong opinions about hockey related matters is one thing.

If we disagree, then disagree. No need for personal attacks.

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07-19-2011, 11:00 AM
  #86
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[
Quote:
QUOTE=Brian Boyle;35163149]I never really listed any stats regarding why he wouldn't "slump". It's just that your typical sophomore slump is due to the attention that said rookie garners from his outstanding season. Paajarvi wasn't really on anyone's radar by the end of last season.
Dude what? Think about that for a second.. it makes no difference how much exposure or attention a rookie gets. A sophmore slump or ANY slump can happen to anyone.

Quote:
Why? A similar player, Nikolai Kulemin, had a very similar statline, but he did so while being 2 years older than Paajarvi.
Just because they are similiar players does NOT mean that they will have the same success. Only time will tell. Look at Prucha, he had better stats than any of them.. Now where is he?

Quote:
Besides -- no one has really said anything different(other than your typical over hypers). His ceiling is a ~60-~70 point, two-way winger. That statement still rings somewhat true -- it was just he didn't live up to his rookie "hype". The "hype" some of these players get is ridiculous -- I wouldn't use it to determine any player's future.
I was talking about people from the Oilers board on how much they were overhyping him. While I agree that is his ceiling, i just dont know if i can see him reaching his full potential. I get what your saying and would love to have him, but lets not forget we already have Dubinsky and another similiar player in krieder coming NEXT YEAR. Why should we give up one of the best defenseman we have seen come here since Marc Staal for a peice that wont be as good?

Quote:
He averaged 15:23 a game. When he was given more ice-time at the end of the year, this is what his game log looked like:

GameGAP+/-PPSHSSHFTTOI
Apr 10 '11 EDM @ COL01100032216:28
Apr 08 '11 MIN @ EDM000-10012017:23
Apr 06 '11 EDM @ CGY10100052418:43
Apr 05 '11 VAN @ EDM10101062420:09
Apr 02 '11 EDM @ VAN10100032417:11
Mar 31 '11 EDM @ MIN011-10031916:46
Mar 29 '11 LAK @ EDM000-10032016:18
Mar 26 '11 CGY @ EDM10100062619:22
Mar 24 '11 EDM @ STL000-10011918:27
Mar 22 '11 EDM @ NSH00000042016:40
Mar 19 '11 COL @ EDM01110082522:54
Mar 17 '11 PHX @ EDM101-20122121:54

This was the most ice-time he averaged throughout the entire season; before these games, he hadn't played over 20 minutes yet in any game. He had 8 points in these 11 games -- and if you arrange the chart by shifts, you see the more shifts he got, the more consistent he was in his point production. He was also, assuredly, more comfortable on NA ice and at the NHL pace.
Great table and facts but if you look at who he played and the level of competition, you will see that there are only 4 games against playoff teams, the rest is against ****** teams at the end of the season. Doesnt really get much easier than that when teams are already out of the playoff picture and dont have a good team to begin with. Plus lets not kid ourselves here, he got around 18minutes a game if you include PP time and PK time which you have with every other player so lets keep it the same. 18minutes per game is solid 2nd line minutes and had plenty of chances to succeed with solid linemates.


Quote:
Omark is basically a more flashy, less defensively responsible version of Zuccarello. Very skilled, but he was in the same boat as Paajarvi -- except for the fact that he's 3 years older. He put up nearly identical numbers to Zuccarello, too. As for Gagner -- he's a slow, ~45 point center. He isn't exactly a dynamo out there.



Stepan was coming out of the North American developmental system -- Paajarvi out of the European system. The ice being different, and the pace of the game being different, are very important factors that you have to take into account when evaluating these 20 year old players.

Also, Stepan's combinations:

FrequencySituationCenterRWLW
15.59%EVSTEPAN,DEREKZUCCARELLO,MATSWOLSKI,WOJTEK
5.66%EVSTEPAN,DEREKGABORIK,MARIANPROSPAL,VACLAV
5.46%EVSTEPAN,DEREKCALLAHAN,RYANDUBINSKY,BRANDON

He also averaged over a minute more of ice-time than Paajarvi -- getting more PP time as well.
[/QUOTE]

Oh boy lol. Omark and Gagner are basically the same type of players that Stepan played with the entire season. Omark has very good offensive abilities, and gagner although a little slow, still had 45pts! not really sure how u can say he didnt have good linemates if they were able to put up over 40pts. Stepan was put in the same situation and succeeded more than MPS.

I dont care where MPS was coming out of, look at what Zucca did, they came from the same league, Zucca only played half the season and still was only about 10pts less than what MPS put up. Give me a break about this it takes time to acclomate to a new rink. I played hockey on both size rink and yes while it does take time to get used to the change but its still hockey and doesnt take years to do so. It takes maybe a quarter of the season to change with it. Zucca was able to do it, but he just ran out of gas, but they basically both came from overseas, with the different style of play and rink sizem, so i dont see the difference there.

Oh please, the reason Stepan averaged over a minute more was because we had a ton of injuries and he was putting up pts and playing a solid two way game. He earned his minutes.. Oh and by the way that chart you just put up about Stepan's linemates. your helping to prove my point. The majority of stepans time was with Zucca and Wolski.. He BARELY played with Dubinsky and Callahan or Gaborik.

Lets also not forget that Stepan came out of Wisconsin college where they play alot less games against less talent than where MPS came from.

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07-19-2011, 11:05 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Do you take Gordie Clark's opinion seriously? Because he said Kreider is ready and said Kreider could step into the NHL.

Look at the "Miller" thread. Rangerboy posted a video interview with Clark and Gorton.

Just because I have a passionate opinion, or feel passionately about hockey, doesn't mean I believe I know everything.

If you don't want a personal argument, then please don't try making personal attacks. I don't want or need any personal arguments, vendettas, or attacks.

Talking hockey is one thing. Having strong opinions about hockey related matters is one thing.

If we disagree, then disagree. No need for personal attacks.
I'm still failing to see where I personally attacked you. Questioning how you go about your opinions wasn't intended to insult you. I think anyone who devotes their free time to a hockey forum in freaking July, knows a thing or two about hockey and is more than passionate about the game.

Clark suggesting Kreiders NHL ready doesn't mean he's a likely candidate for our 1st line right away. That was all you

As far as the trade, I'd much rather explore other alternatives than moving McDonagh, because I think he's going to be a stud. I'd probably move MDZ or Erixon over him, unless they both blow away my expectations in the next year or two. If they do, then the OP's proposal is fair. Value + Need. From our perspective, anyway.

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07-19-2011, 11:10 AM
  #88
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Erixon is in the same exact mold as Staal and McDonagh. So yes, the Rangers have SOMEONE who can fill that hole if need be, but why? Why not have one of the best set of LD's for the next 10 years?

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07-19-2011, 11:17 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Dude what? Think about that for a second.. it makes no difference how much exposure or attention a rookie gets. A sophmore slump or ANY slump can happen to anyone.
That's what is usually the main culprit in these supposed "sophomore slumps". Why would a player slump JUST because he's a 2nd year player? Factors such as opposing teams knowing to key in on said player more are valid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Just because they are similiar players does NOT mean that they will have the same success. Only time will tell. Look at Prucha, he had better stats than any of them.. Now where is he?
Prucha had 1 good year in 2005-2006. Gionta had 48 goals that year. I'm not using that year as a barometer for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
I was talking about people from the Oilers board on how much they were overhyping him. While I agree that is his ceiling, i just dont know if i can see him reaching his full potential. I get what your saying and would love to have him, but lets not forget we already have Dubinsky and another similiar player in krieder coming NEXT YEAR. Why should we give up one of the best defenseman we have seen come here since Marc Staal for a peice that wont be as good?
I wouldn't trade McDonagh for him. Just arguing Paajarvi is better than you have said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Great table and facts but if you look at who he played and the level of competition, you will see that there are only 4 games against playoff teams, the rest is against ****** teams at the end of the season. Doesnt really get much easier than that when teams are already out of the playoff picture and dont have a good team to begin with. Plus lets not kid ourselves here, he got around 18minutes a game if you include PP time and PK time which you have with every other player so lets keep it the same. 18minutes per game is solid 2nd line minutes and had plenty of chances to succeed with solid linemates.
He still produced. With top-6 icetime all season next year, he should hit the 50 point mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Oh boy lol. Omark and Gagner are basically the same type of players that Stepan played with the entire season. Omark has very good offensive abilities, and gagner although a little slow, still had 45pts! not really sure how u can say he didnt have good linemates if they were able to put up over 40pts. Stepan was put in the same situation and succeeded more than MPS.
I don't think Paajarvi had a better year than Stepan, but you're overrating Omark/Gagner. Gagner had 45 points getting spoonfed top ice time. It isn't really impressive at all. Paajarvi never got to play with any players that are as good as Callahan/Dubinsky/Prospal/Gaborik, unlike Stepan, who got that opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
I dont care where MPS was coming out of, look at what Zucca did, they came from the same league, Zucca only played half the season and still was only about 10pts less than what MPS put up. Give me a break about this it takes time to acclomate to a new rink. I played hockey on both size rink and yes while it does take time to get used to the change but its still hockey and doesnt take years to do so. It takes maybe a quarter of the season to change with it. Zucca was able to do it, but he just ran out of gas, but they basically both came from overseas, with the different style of play and rink sizem, so i dont see the difference there.
Zuccarello was older than Paajarvi, and also got time in the AHL before he was called up -- they aren't really comparable.

Doesn't matter where you played hockey, we're talking about the NHL, here. The pace/speed of the game is different in NA compared to the SEL, It takes time to adjust. Daniel Sedin had roughly the same statline as Paajarvi did this past season, and look at him now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Oh please, the reason Stepan averaged over a minute more was because we had a ton of injuries and he was putting up pts and playing a solid two way game. He earned his minutes.. Oh and by the way that chart you just put up about Stepan's linemates. your helping to prove my point. The majority of stepans time was with Zucca and Wolski.. He BARELY played with Dubinsky and Callahan or Gaborik.
Using math:

Both played the majority of their time with Gagner/Omark and Wolski/Zuccarello. Okay. Equal.

The other ~10% or so, Paajarvi was not playing with players of Callahan/Dubinsky/Gaborik/Prospal's caliber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Lets also not forget that Stepan came out of Wisconsin college where they play alot less games against less talent than where MPS came from.
They actually play a similar amount of games. 50 for Paajarvi in 2009-2010. 40 for Stepan in 2009-2010.

For the record, I'm not saying Paajarvi had a better year than Stepan. You're the one who made the comparison in the first place, it isn't really a relevant discussion.

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07-19-2011, 11:19 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
It doesn't matter who you were talking to. And it doesn't matter which thread you were saying it in. The lining of each and every single one of your posts can best be described as a know-it-all. You don't give yourself the benefit of doubt by posting things like "I think" or "imo". Instead, you throw around your opinions like they're facts.

MPS doesn't have to be elite to be a likely candidate for this team going forward. McDonagh will never be elite at anything, so I don't see where the problem with this proposal is.
First off, MPS would be good for this team yes but we do have a VERY simliar player in Krieder who from Clark and Gortons mouth is ready to play and play WELL in the NHL. I personally would rather try and trade MDZ + or whenever we find out how good our youngster end up being, to trade Girardi +.

How can you say McDonagh will never be elite at anything? Can you see into the future? do you know this already? If so you should be a scout for us so we can draft all the best guys. McDonagh is 21yo and in his first season he played OUTSTANDING. He has all the talent and skill to be just as good as Staal.

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It's more of the same with you. Overrate our guys, and underrate the outsiders. I tend to overhype and overrate my guys too, because, unfortunately, I can be a bit of a homer. But I watch enough hockey outside the Rangers to have an idea of how good a player is, and can be.

The swap I took at you about your age/experience was meant as some food for thought. When you go around telling people what wins games, it's kind of a slap in the face to them considering they already know what wins games. They don't need your proffesional outlook. Your tutoring. Your mentoring. Ola's been watching the game longer than both of us. Is he that ****ing stupid where he needs a lesson from someone half his junior?
Everyone is going to overrate their own prospects regardless of who they are and what team they root for. I think alot of people watch hockey outside of the rangers and have their own views and opinions on players that differ from others.

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Fact is MPS can potentially impact this team more than a guy like McDonagh. You can't argue this. The gears in motion within our organization has its strengths and weaknesses. Only a fool would assume a scoring winger like MPS isn't as vital as a second-pairing LD.
The fact is, that you really dont know what your talking about and it can easily be argued. Each player ended up having a very good productive 1st year. Yes MPS would help our offense but Mcdonagh was HUGE for our defense last year. Both are extremley young and in their 1st nhl season. Mcdonagh came in and became a very good 2nd pairing dman, and to think he wont get better with each year and become a 1st pairing dman is just arrogant. Yes MPS will get better as well but i believe Mcdonagh had a better season than MPS and he only played half a season.

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Would I pull the trigger on this trade? Maybe. There are quite a few variables that i'm oblivious to at this very point of the season. If Erixon and Del Zotto are ready to game this fall, then a McD/MPS swap has its merits.
Id have no interest in trading Mcd for MPS. I have full confidence that Mcdonagh will become a #1 dman, along with possibly Erixon. Id rather have 2-3 #1 dmen signed at a very good price, who are all under 26yo than have MPS and Krieder fight it out for a top 6 spot. If we end up with a defense that we are all expecting then i think that would make Girardi expendable, where we can trade him with other peices for a more serious upgrade than MPS.

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07-19-2011, 11:35 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by NYRantLftyC19 View Post
He's not the only one who believes McD is ahead of Sauer. Sure, Sauer's defensive game is a bit more polished, as it should be because he has been playing the pro game longer... But to me it is obvious that McD has a higher potential than Sauer. Especially offensively.

It would be interesting to see a poll of who NYR fans think will be better, McD or Sauer..
Im so confident that Sauer will be better than Mcd that id bet money on it if there was such a thing lol. Problem is people would get crazy on what defines who is better.

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07-19-2011, 11:36 AM
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Not a chance.

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07-19-2011, 11:36 AM
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That's what is usually the main culprit in these supposed "sophomore slumps". Why would a player slump JUST because he's a 2nd year player? Factors such as opposing teams knowing to key in on said player more are valid.
People can go into slumps regardless of what year or how good a player is. Look at how gaborik did this year. Would that make more sense? Gaborik is more talented than most players in the league but still had a slump of a year. Slumps happen, doesnt matter how good you are or how long youve been in the nhl.



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I wouldn't trade McDonagh for him. Just arguing Paajarvi is better than you have said.
Ha, so why are we even argueing with each other about this. My whole point with all of this is that i woud NOT trade Mcdonagh for MPS. Im not trying to make it out where MPS isnt good but i just dont think hell be as good as alot of people here are stating.

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He still produced. With top-6 icetime all season next year, he should hit the 50 point mark.
Possibly, i guess well see what happens. Thats a big jump in pts.


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I don't think Paajarvi had a better year than Stepan, but you're overrating Omark/Gagner. Gagner had 45 points getting spoonfed top ice time. It isn't really impressive at all. Paajarvi never got to play with any players that are as good as Callahan/Dubinsky/Prospal/Gaborik, unlike Stepan, who got that opportunity.
I dont think im overrating Omark and Gagner. Compared to Wolski and Zucca there isnt a difference between the two lines. Please give me a break with Stepan playing with cally, dubinsky, (prospal)?, and Gaborik. He probably played a couple of minutes each game with them. But then you have to think, hmm, why did he play those minutes with those players.. Because he deserved it, he was playing well and producing. If MPS was doing that he wouldve gotten more ice time with better linemates.


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Zuccarello was older than Paajarvi, and also got time in the AHL before he was called up -- they aren't really comparable.
How so? they were both rookies. yes zucca is a 2 years older and i believe zucca STARTED on the Rangers. Even if he didnt it was only a couple of games in the AHL. The jump is still difficult for both players. so they ARE comparable.

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Doesn't matter where you played hockey, we're talking about the NHL, here. The pace/speed of the game is different in NA compared to the SEL, It takes time to adjust. Daniel Sedin had roughly the same statline as Paajarvi did this past season, and look at him now.
Exactly my point. Stop trying to use the international ice surface and other ******** as excuses for MPS.


Using math:

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Both played the majority of their time with Gagner/Omark and Wolski/Zuccarello. Okay. Equal.

The other ~10% or so, Paajarvi was not playing with players of Callahan/Dubinsky/Gaborik/Prospal's caliber.



They actually play a similar amount of games. 50 for Paajarvi in 2009-2010. 40 for Stepan in 2009-2010.

For the record, I'm not saying Paajarvi had a better year than Stepan. You're the one who made the comparison in the first place, it isn't really a relevant discussion.
Again, like i stated before. Their ice time and linemates are and were of equal caliber. The 10% that Stepan recieved with those players was because he earned that spot. Other than that, Stepan produced MOST of his pts with Zucca and Wolski. Even if you take away the pts that Stepan had when he played with those guys he still out produces MPS.

I made the comparison because everyone is talking about how MPS had such a great season and It bothers me that people want to give up on a player of Mcdonagh's caliber and potential for him when we could get something better.

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07-19-2011, 11:38 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Im so confident that Sauer will be better than Mcd that id bet money on it if there was such a thing lol. Problem is people would get crazy on what defines who is better.
I dont think you could be more wrong lol. I love Sauer and i see him as the next Jeff Beukaboom but Mcdonagh has the skill set to be much better than Sauer. Mcdonagh is going to be a great two way dman, like Letang.

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07-19-2011, 11:39 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
If you can't deduct his value by watching his game then there is nothing I say that will change your mind.

I will say this...his skating ability and defensive positioning is on par or better than Staal's at the same stage of their careers.
Again lets design a poll instead of money and we can write who we think will be better Sauer or Mcd and we can check in at the end of next season, debating this by saying someone else is crazy or doesent know hockey is still a bit premature.

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07-19-2011, 11:41 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
I dont think you could be more wrong lol. I love Sauer and i see him as the next Jeff Beukaboom but Mcdonagh has the skill set to be much better than Sauer. Mcdonagh is going to be a great two way dman, like Letang.
I was listening to an interview with Sauer on Blueshirtunited.com and Mike stated he would like to model his game after Adam Foote. I think thats actually a pretty good comparison.

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07-19-2011, 11:41 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
I dont think you could be more wrong lol. I love Sauer and i see him as the next Jeff Beukaboom but Mcdonagh has the skill set to be much better than Sauer. Mcdonagh is going to be a great two way dman, like Letang.
He may have more skill but Sauer is much better right now and ill take my chances on Sauer than the slight chance Mcd will be some skilled Offensive D man which is very hard to become in this league.

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07-19-2011, 11:42 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
Again lets design a poll instead of money and we can write who we think will be better Sauer or Mcd and we can check in at the end of next season, debating this by saying someone else is crazy or doesent know hockey is still a bit premature.
Sounds like a good idea. Do it up. Lets see what our fellow ranger brethren say. I love both these players and think they will both be very good for us.. Lets not get angry at each other about this stuff. These are GREAT problems to have as a team!

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07-19-2011, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I was listening to an interview with Sauer on Blueshirtunited.com and Mike stated he would like to model his game after Adam Foote. I think thats actually a pretty good comparison.
yea i was thinking foote too, Sauer is a defensive Stalwart who can chip in the occasional goal.

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07-19-2011, 11:45 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
He may have more skill but Sauer is much better right now and ill take my chances on Sauer than the slight chance Mcd will be some skilled Offensive D man which is very hard to become in this league.
Right now, yes Sauer is better. But also remember that Sauer is a couple of years older and has been playing professional hockey for a couple of years, while this was Mcdonagh's 1st season as a professional. They will both be very very good players.

Slight chance? dude have you seen Mcdonagh play? He easily has the vision, passing, shot, skating skills, positioning, and defensive play to become a great two way dman like Letang. Not really sure how you can say he doesnt.

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