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10-17-2003, 02:13 PM
  #1
gruntsplatter
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What do you think it is?

What do you think is going on with the team, is there any buzz in the local media? Is it chemistry with the news guys fitting in, being overly confident and not working hard enough, teammates wondering about Federov after his comments about staying in Detroit, Federov wondering what heh's done to himself...

I'm a Sharks fan, but I have seen the Ducks plenty of times because of the division games, and the last year or so I watched them when I could because you guys have/had guys I like, and a goalie tandem that more teams would have been jealous of before the playoffs if they were paying attention. It seemed like such a tight team last year, and while I haven't gotten to see a game in it's entirety yet this year what I have seen just doesn't have that same conviction.

Being a Sharks fan it also takes me back to their start last year, and how it just snowballed from there, granted you didn't have the holdouts but are coming off a franchise best season the way they were. So I'm just curious what the early theories are.

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10-17-2003, 02:15 PM
  #2
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Adjusting. Last year they started slow because it took Oates and Sykora a bit of time to adjust to Orange County. Now it's Fedorov and Prospal who need to adjust. Once they got it, they'll climb to normal.

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10-17-2003, 02:34 PM
  #3
lux_interior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntsplatter
What do you think is going on with the team, is there any buzz in the local media? Is it chemistry with the news guys fitting in, being overly confident and not working hard enough, teammates wondering about Federov after his comments about staying in Detroit, Federov wondering what heh's done to himself...

I'm a Sharks fan, but I have seen the Ducks plenty of times because of the division games, and the last year or so I watched them when I could because you guys have/had guys I like, and a goalie tandem that more teams would have been jealous of before the playoffs if they were paying attention. It seemed like such a tight team last year, and while I haven't gotten to see a game in it's entirety yet this year what I have seen just doesn't have that same conviction.

Being a Sharks fan it also takes me back to their start last year, and how it just snowballed from there, granted you didn't have the holdouts but are coming off a franchise best season the way they were. So I'm just curious what the early theories are.
I don't think it's overconfident. I agree with ducksflytogether, that it's a matter of the team needing time to get used to one another. So many changes at high levels amongst players. It just will take time to "gel". I hope we get our act together.

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10-17-2003, 02:43 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux_interior
I don't think it's overconfident. I agree with ducksflytogether, that it's a matter of the team needing time to get used to one another. So many changes at high levels amongst players. It just will take time to "gel". I hope we get our act together.
i agree..
i mean sometimes these players can just click and others not..
but let's see how it is with the shuffle of the first and 2nd line now..

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10-18-2003, 08:12 AM
  #5
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It's bad luck. Three games in a row the first star was the other team's goalie. The Ducks will get their bounces, but it's a matter of creating them. Chistov and Lupul (and now McDonald) have been the only ones skating hard and driving to the net, but it's hard to praise anyone when the team scores two goals in four games.

The other reason is Carney's absence. He means a lot to this team and they never have played well without him.

This is the point where the Ducks really miss Kariya. Remember, a lot of his goals last year were the first in the game. They have to adjust to not having that spark.

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10-18-2003, 08:26 AM
  #6
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It's predictable and there are real and measureable reasons:

1. Cup final hangover. You can SAY we haven't won a thing yet all you want, but the fact is the Ducks playoff run through the heart of the NHL was exceptional. The fact they finished a bit short doesn't in any way lessen the accomplishment. Now, they have to get their hunger back, and it takes awhile.

2. Federov. It'll take him awhile, always does. Sort of like going from the NL to the AL and finding out they throw curves on a fastball count. He'll be fine.

3. Kids. Ducks have some exceptional young talent that needs time to find its way. Chistov and Lupul will be top drawer NHLers, but they need to struggle and find success. Should be readsy come playoff time.

4. The goalie. Was out of this world last season, regular and post. Got lots of attention, maybe didn't settle in to getting ready for the season like he did a year ago.

5. Turnover. Changed a few deck chairs for a championship team, as mentioned with Federov comment. But this also applies to losing Kariya, who probably had the respect of the whole room.

Sometimes a young team advances deep in one year, craps the bed the next one, then comes back with killer instinct the following season.

This could be the cycle the Ducks are in now.

Trade ya.

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10-18-2003, 08:34 AM
  #7
Jerky Leclerc
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What the Ducks really need is a goal. They need to get the monkey off their backs and build some confidence. Right now, nothing seems to be going in.

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10-18-2003, 09:49 AM
  #8
lux_interior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
It's predictable and there are real and measureable reasons:

1. Cup final hangover. You can SAY we haven't won a thing yet all you want, but the fact is the Ducks playoff run through the heart of the NHL was exceptional. The fact they finished a bit short doesn't in any way lessen the accomplishment. Now, they have to get their hunger back, and it takes awhile.

2. Federov. It'll take him awhile, always does. Sort of like going from the NL to the AL and finding out they throw curves on a fastball count. He'll be fine.

3. Kids. Ducks have some exceptional young talent that needs time to find its way. Chistov and Lupul will be top drawer NHLers, but they need to struggle and find success. Should be readsy come playoff time.

4. The goalie. Was out of this world last season, regular and post. Got lots of attention, maybe didn't settle in to getting ready for the season like he did a year ago.

5. Turnover. Changed a few deck chairs for a championship team, as mentioned with Federov comment. But this also applies to losing Kariya, who probably had the respect of the whole room.

Sometimes a young team advances deep in one year, craps the bed the next one, then comes back with killer instinct the following season.

This could be the cycle the Ducks are in now.

Trade ya.
I appreciate your objectivity. Not the "Ducks suck" BS that is rampant on HFBoards right now. I agree with most of the points here. But, I think Giguere has played well enough in 2 out of the 3 games he has started. Problem is, the Ducks have scored a total of 1 goal in those 3 games. And in the two (Phoenix and Ottawa) where he has played well, the Ducks have scored 0 goals. Tough to win like that.

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Old
10-18-2003, 10:40 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
It's predictable and there are real and measureable reasons:

1. Cup final hangover. You can SAY we haven't won a thing yet all you want, but the fact is the Ducks playoff run through the heart of the NHL was exceptional. The fact they finished a bit short doesn't in any way lessen the accomplishment. Now, they have to get their hunger back, and it takes awhile.

2. Federov. It'll take him awhile, always does. Sort of like going from the NL to the AL and finding out they throw curves on a fastball count. He'll be fine.

3. Kids. Ducks have some exceptional young talent that needs time to find its way. Chistov and Lupul will be top drawer NHLers, but they need to struggle and find success. Should be readsy come playoff time.

4. The goalie. Was out of this world last season, regular and post. Got lots of attention, maybe didn't settle in to getting ready for the season like he did a year ago.

5. Turnover. Changed a few deck chairs for a championship team, as mentioned with Federov comment. But this also applies to losing Kariya, who probably had the respect of the whole room.

Sometimes a young team advances deep in one year, craps the bed the next one, then comes back with killer instinct the following season.

This could be the cycle the Ducks are in now.

Trade ya.

Thanks for the postive attitude and good knowledge of the greatest game on earth that you show on this board

It's been very frustrating so far. I do feel that we ouplayed the last 3 opponents by a good margin but at this point we can't buy a goal - while our opponents score on either on a PP or a even worse on a fluke play.
Oh well Boston is in town - we need to bury these guys for good.

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Old
10-19-2003, 12:52 AM
  #10
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Lowetide: EXCELLENT POST! Stick around and keep the trolls like Sementhead out, willya?

Lux (Luthor) already brought up the good points about Jiggy. All things considered, this is probably a GOOD start for him.

While all of your reasons are probably valid as contributing factors (although I frankly can't see Kariya, aka Captain Cardboard, having the respect of the whole room.... my morning bowl of corn flakes is more motivating), they don't account for the lapses in effort we've seen this year. Maybe the team is mentally exhausted from last year's run, maybe they're just wilting under the pressure.

The lack of goal scoring despite getting good offensive pressure isn't all luck. Our forwards are not crashing the net with any zeal. We usually get one guy in there who promptly gets creamed by the collapsing d-men, while our other forwards stand outside the crease hoping to get a stick on it. IT ISN'T WORKING. Get your butts right in the opposing goalie's face. Make someone *cross-check* you out of there. I gotta give it to Andy Mac, he was right back in there. The kid has more balls than brains and I love him for it.

Oh, and SERGEI. Wipe that mewling, "woe is me" look off of your mug already. You want leadership? You want to be the man? Then STEP UP for chrissakes and tell everyone that this ***** is UNACCEPTABLE. Give us some indication that you actually have some STANDARDS for this team's performance. Otherwise, arrange a buyout and go retire in Florida with the other two crybabies, Bure and Jagr. You can all play Pinochle, talk about how your supermodel girlfriends dumped your sorry ***** and decide which one of you gets to use the testicle that night.

And finally, much as I hate to say it given the incredible job he did last season, I think Babcock really dropped the ball this preseason. The team didn't come out mentally ready to play... that's his responsibility. I think we concentrated too much on developing what appears to be a new offensive style rather than hammering home the basics and bringing in the changes GRADUALLY and on non-factors like who gets to be the team's goon. I'm fully on board with you now, Booger! I don't care WHO drops the gloves for this team!!! BRING BACK WARREN RYCHEL!!!!

I still think we're going to bust it open against Boston tomorrow night, especially after their dramatic comeback against the Queens (and my goodness, that meltdown was a thing of beauty, wasn't it?). We get Raycroft, we get a tired, perhaps emotionally exhausted team. I think we'll win, but should this team wind up 0-5, I *demand* that Babcock or somebody on the team dramatically (and publically) ***** them out.

MoneyP

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Old
10-19-2003, 05:17 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
4. The goalie. Was out of this world last season, regular and post. Got lots of attention, maybe didn't settle in to getting ready for the season like he did a year ago.
What about the change in goalie pads? Giguere was one of the goalies that had to use new, smaller pads because of the new rules (if I am not mistaken). I think as far as goaltending goes, Giggy hasn't really dominated/stolen any games so that probably plays into part of it.

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10-19-2003, 05:35 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHBlain
What about the change in goalie pads? Giguere was one of the goalies that had to use new, smaller pads because of the new rules (if I am not mistaken). I think as far as goaltending goes, Giggy hasn't really dominated/stolen any games so that probably plays into part of it.
you are mistaken
Giguere's using the same size pads he had last year
Gerber has bigger pads then Giguere, and both are inside the limit

I think mainly it's the shortened off-season coupled with new players and the loss of some leadership in the room.
Giguere got married in the short off-season as well as other functions, so it's possible he didn't have as long to get ready for the season as before

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Old
10-19-2003, 07:07 PM
  #13
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i dont know what it is but whatever it is,it sucks...we had everyone at camp except sykora but he only missed like 2 days of it but everyone was there,they did preseason so i dont understand how they cant get a win...when the schedule came out in july,i looked at it and i seriously said wow this looks like a hard schedule wit all the good teams we're gonna play and guess what,its not looking good..we got sj and then philly next...everyone might say we will win against Sj but who knows,i have a feeling we will but i had a feeling would beat nashvill and boston tonight..its just a matter of time before they the feeling of each other and start playing like a team...we might have started bad last season but it wasnt this bad...i think come nov/dec we will be all gelled and playing Ducks hockey..thats how i see it..

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10-19-2003, 08:05 PM
  #14
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i'll summarize and reiterate my post from another thread...

the ducks will be fine... this isn't gonna last all season... it's when they break the funk is what matters... they just aren't deep and experienced enough to claw back like the Av's or Devils. so falling too far behind for any good team that is a 6-8 seed is a nightmare that you aint gonna wake up from.

federov signing good but the PR necessity fuzzed out Murray's logic when it came to sergei's deal.

prospal signing bad... i was all over people on our board who *****ed when you picked him up... saying all this bladder about Taylor dropping the ball.

CJ? don't even get me started... you guys just took our bad juju (you're welcome)... how can you be considered one of the fastest skaters in the league, and never end up anywhere?

i'm not sold on Giggy... he overachieved a bit and got really hot, and damn near pulled one off... but the fact is... rarely does a goaltender (Patty Roy comes to mind) ever start off as the man that early in his career, and end up the man throughout... Felix Potvin got to game 7 of the conference finals in both his rookie and second year, Jim Carey won the Vezina... etc. etc. i think Giggy is a bit overrated... good, not great... at least yet.

you don't have a number one defenseman... no booty about Carney either! he's an exceptional number 3 guy and i've always liked him. an absolute necessity on the blue line, but not the go to guy... he's too blue collar, and he too overachieved last season.

bottom line... games like this, and the ass whipping we took last night happen... boston is a good team, and the majority of that team has been together some time now. they can read each other and jump on the opportunities very well. the positive thing is you got scoring from multiple players, and everyone seemed to have woken up a bit and played rather well considering... i mean this was not the same dreadful ducks we've watched so far this season.

so... put that in your quack pipe and shmoke it!

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10-19-2003, 08:56 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat

you don't have a number one defenseman... no booty about Carney either! he's an exceptional number 3 guy and i've always liked him. an absolute necessity on the blue line, but not the go to guy... he's too blue collar, and he too overachieved last season.
Carney and Ozolinsh are great #2 defensemen in my opinion. How many teams have a real #1 defensmen? Theres maybe 5-10 teams with #1 defensmen.

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10-19-2003, 09:01 PM
  #16
lux_interior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat

CJ? don't even get me started... you guys just took our bad juju (you're welcome)... how can you be considered one of the fastest skaters in the league, and never end up anywhere?
At least we didn't trade Wayne Gretzky to acquire him.

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10-19-2003, 09:43 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux_interior
At least we didn't trade Wayne Gretzky to acquire him.
hey man we got Roman Vopat, Patrice Tardiff, Peter Hogan, and Matt Zultek too... all game breakers baby!

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10-19-2003, 09:56 PM
  #18
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I don't think there is anything bad about having Craig Johnson as our fourth line/penalty killing specialist...hes much better than Dan Bylsma, who should just retire...and keep his color commentator job that hes been filling in on the radio broadcasts.

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10-19-2003, 11:21 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
I don't think there is anything bad about having Craig Johnson as our fourth line/penalty killing specialist...hes much better than Dan Bylsma, who should just retire...and keep his color commentator job that hes been filling in on the radio broadcasts.
we've had both and i'd take bylsma's heart in a second!

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10-19-2003, 11:43 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat
we've had both and i'd take bylsma's heart in a second!
I like what I have seen of Johnson so far, but I like Bylsma more.

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10-20-2003, 12:23 AM
  #21
McDonald19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jshibley
I like what I have seen of Johnson so far, but I like Bylsma more.
With Johnsons 3way contract do u think he will get sent to the AHL when Bylsma comes back? I thought Johnson was an upgrade but if you guys dont think so...I dont think we need them both, they play the same role.

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10-20-2003, 05:10 AM
  #22
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2 words:

Keith Carney...

His loss hurts this team a lot. Locker Room and On Ice.

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10-20-2003, 07:59 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtyduk8
2 words:

Keith Carney...

His loss hurts this team a lot. Locker Room and On Ice.


I tell you what's wrong with the Ducks. We have 4 D-Man, Mister Invisible (Vish), Mister Turnover's (Ozo and Sauer) and Mr. "Keep taking stupid penalties") that all play at about 1/3 of their playoff plays last year.
Babcock better sit any of the three tomorrow night and give Ward a chance. None of them deserves to be in the line up with what they have shown so far.
Can you see the contract negotations with Keith Carney next year:

BM: Ok Keith what kind of money are we looking for next year
KC: Well my family really likes OC, the Weather, the Malls, and I like
playing golf in the off season, lets say 8 Mil
BM: Ok, done

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10-21-2003, 12:44 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDonald19
With Johnsons 3way contract do u think he will get sent to the AHL when Bylsma comes back? I thought Johnson was an upgrade but if you guys dont think so...I dont think we need them both, they play the same role.
Maybe send Burnett down if we aren't going to play him..... when carney gets back I am assuming ward gets sent down because he isn't playing either.

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10-21-2003, 01:25 PM
  #25
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Carney's a fine player, but a truly great team defense should never fall apart because of one guy being out. However, his absence does underscore the fact that we, unlike other contending teams, do not have a true superstar defenseman. He's the closest we have to a top-pairing guy, and while Ozo is an impact player he's not well-rounded enough to hold the fort on his own.

That's why we need to move quantity for quality. Defensive depth is fine, but having a great defense is not really about having a solid top 6, it's more about having the best top 4 possible, and filling out #5 and #6 with guys who will just hold the fort.

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