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If Kovalev called PG and offered him 1Y/1M.. Would you?

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:48 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
oh i can write a book on why i wouldnt want him back. I dont feel its necessary its self explanatory
Well educate me then saints96. I've got a couple of hours to kill.

Seriously though, some of you have brought up some very good points as to why adding Kovalev would be a bad idea, regardless of the term/salary of his contract. Not that I disgree with some of what I've read. I just think for 1mil, he's worth the risk. If he doesn't work out, you dump him.

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07-19-2011, 10:04 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Favre4Favre View Post
Well educate me then saints96. I've got a couple of hours to kill.

Seriously though, some of you have brought up some very good points as to why adding Kovalev would be a bad idea, regardless of the term/salary of his contract. Not that I disgree with some of what I've read. I just think for 1mil, he's worth the risk. If he doesn't work out, you dump him.
If we're talking salary/risk then i agree with you 1mil wouldnt hurt. HOWEVER someone with his character, lazy, at times unmotivated can have a rippling effect in the locker room and on the bench. Especially coming from a veteran who should be displaying the exact opposite. Talent wise, he is an incredible hockey player. He had/has all the tools and skills to be an elite player but he does lack heart. If his heart matched his talent we wouldnt be having this convo. Also i dont think he and Martin would get along because we all know he isnt known for his back-checking and defensive efforts and Martin would rip his head off!

edit: Also considering that we probably have the best locker room in the NHL, chemistry counts for so much and it translates on the ice. Its no coincidence that Gainey and now Gauthier are aquiring character players, players who are proven winners, warriors, hard workers and all in all good people. Kovy wouldnt fit that mold if ya know what i mean.


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07-19-2011, 10:13 AM
  #203
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Agreed, but he wouldn't be added just for helping the PP. This is only one of the areas he would be used in. Also, what other options for our second PP unit would you consider to be better than Kovalev? Desharnais, Eller, Cole, Darche?
Well, just for arguments sake...Desharnais had 2 LESS PP points than Kovalev did in 26 less games. Kovalev managed 6 PP goals last year. This isn't 4 years ago. Also, Cole & Darche would have specific roles on the PP, they would screen the goalie and score the 'ugly' goals...not the same role as Kovalev.

Personally, from watching Kovalev the last few years...he's only effective on the right-wing half board, and teams have caught up to that. He's not nearly as dangerous and effective as he was a few years ago.

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Last year, we had minimal offense coming from our 3rd/4th lines. Adding a player like Kovalev to our third line, would help take some of the offensive pressure off of our top six. As when he is "On", opposing coaches would have to focus more on whatever line he's on, leaving our top six to face lesser opponents.
Sorry, I don't think coaches worry about Kovalev being "on"...he's not an effective player at even strength, I think theoretically, it's a good idea of having a guy like that on the 3rd line to alleviate some pressure from your top 6. But I don't think Kovalev is a "3rd line type of guy". He's either got to play alot of minutes and have alot of responsibility, or else he just floats through games.

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I'd agree with you if we only had 1mil left to spend. The fact is, the Habs can add Kovalev and a 4th line (Halpern) type player, while still having cap space left over.
Agreed...but I just don't think Kovalev brings any added value to the Habs and as i've stated before, he's not a system-fit for the Habs...which is important.

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I'll agree with you on that. This time around though, he wouldn't be needed to carry the team. He would be a second tier option, who at 1mil would be easy to get rid of if he doesn't work out
I don't believe in this theory of "getting rid of him if it doesn't work out"...I don't think you do certain things just because you can sweep it under the rug if ever it goes wrong.

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07-19-2011, 10:24 AM
  #204
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The bottom line is he's worth the risk even if he doesn't work out we have the cap space to take him on even if only a 10% chance he succeeds. If he does succeed here it's a grand slam home run. If he doesn't succeed here we're stacked enough to let him retire here and waste 1 million in cap space.
A couple of questions...

- why is he worth it even if he doesn't work out? I could say the same about signing Steve Bernier to a 1M deal...hell, you can say the same about alot of players.

- also, why is he a 'grand slam home run' if it works out? How many players who are still left unsigned this late in July, coming off 2 putrid seasons, knee operations and would hypothetically sign 1 year 1M deals, become 'home runs'???

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The positives imo far outweigh the negative but we're all entitled to our opinions. 417 makes some valid points but I just think we'd have to see it for sure to be certain. I don't want to go assuming a guy who has had past success on our team all of the sudden wouldn't just based on a system. I'm also not entirely convinced Kovalev can't play in a defense first system. It's mostly a bunch of speculation based on nothing that people use as "proof" he can't succeed here. He's only proven the opposite and if one thing is true it's that a motivated Kovalev can play hockey regardless of the system, an unmotivated Kovalev will suck no matter how good the situation is for him.
There is multiple evidence of proof...he doesn't mesh well in a structured system. This has been proven throughout his career, hell he even says so himself. Kovalev needs freedom to express his talent.

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To me it's a matter of motivation not so much whether he would fit. He goes to Ottawa and stinks it up for one season and all of the sudden the haters come out of the wood work (not referring to you 417, you actually came up with valid arguments, but I'm referring to the people in this thread who are clearly just haters and have no validity to their statements
I can't speak for others...but I've watched him extensively in Ottawa and Pittsburgh and the reasons I wouldn't want him back have little to do with his perceived 'attitude' or 'lack of effort' and has everything to do with his deteriorating skills (don't get me wrong, he's still got a ton of individual skill).

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07-19-2011, 10:40 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
A couple of questions...

- why is he worth it even if he doesn't work out? I could say the same about signing Steve Bernier to a 1M deal...hell, you can say the same about alot of players.
Sorry 417, but your comparision here is weak. As Kovalev has atleast proven in the past that when he wants to play, he can make a difference. Where as Bernier has proven, well to be blunt, nothing.

As for the other players, this is a thread about Kovalev. If this thread consisted of a list of several different players who would be available for 1mil, maybe my answer would be different. I actually replied to Darz's post by saying that I'd take Zherdev over Kovalev.


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- also, why is he a 'grand slam home run' if it works out? How many players who are still left unsigned this late in July, coming off 2 putrid seasons, knee operations and would hypothetically sign 1 year 1M deals, become 'home runs'???
I never said he would be a "grand slam home run". I said he would be someone that I would consider at that price. Considering his love for Montreal, and that fact that I believe he would be motivated to play for the Habs. I'm not 100% sold on the fact that he would fit in. For 1mil though, I'd be willing to take the risk.


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There is multiple evidence of proof...he doesn't mesh well in a structured system. This has been proven throughout his career, hell he even says so himself. Kovalev needs freedom to express his talent.
That's true, but there's also plenty of evidence to prove that when Kovalev is "On". He can be a dominant player, regardless of the system you put him in.


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I can't speak for others...but I've watched him extensively in Ottawa and Pittsburgh and the reasons I wouldn't want him back have little to do with his perceived 'attitude' or 'lack of effort' and has everything to do with his deteriorating skills (don't get me wrong, he's still got a ton of individual skill).
Agreed, his last two seasons do not support my case very well. Personally I think he was just going through the motions, and did not want to be in either Ottawa or Pittsburgh. It's just my humble opinion, but I believe that if brought back to Montreal, we would see a more motivated Kovalev.

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07-19-2011, 10:43 AM
  #206
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It will be pychologically difficult for Gauthier to just sit on 4 million dollars in cap space.

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07-19-2011, 10:47 AM
  #207
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07-19-2011, 10:51 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Even if I disagree with H10H, I can't respond negatively.

He is impossible to hate.
Haha, thanks Harry.

I don't mind if people disagree with my opinions. If we all agreed, this place would be incredibly boring. Plus I really do enjoy reading other peoples opinions, especially ones that differ from my own.

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07-19-2011, 10:52 AM
  #209
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Sorry 417, but your comparision here is weak. As Kovalev has atleast proven in the past that when he wants to play, he can make a difference. Where as Bernier has proven, well to be blunt, nothing.
I wasn't comparing Bernier to Kovalev, they're two totally different players...he's just the first name that came to mind. Though personally, I'd just as much role the dice on Bernier over Kovalev personally (if we're in the mood to roll the dice that is), at least Bernier brings added value IMO (right handed shot, big body, and he goes to the net). Now relax Kovy-groupies...this doesn't mean that I think Bernier is better, just that I think he would bring something the Habs need.

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As for the other players, this is a thread about Kovalev. If this thread consisted of a list of several different players who would be available for 1mil, maybe my answer would be different. I actually replied to Darz's post by saying that I'd take Zherdev over Kovalev.
Fair enough...

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I never said he would be a "grand slam home run". I said he would be someone that I would consider at that price. Considering his love for Montreal, and that fact that I believe he would be motivated to play for the Habs. I'm not 100% sold on the fact that he would fit in. For 1mil though, I'd be willing to take the risk.
Actually, you said exactly that...

"If he does succeed here it's a grand slam home run."...

Sorry, I don't see how Kovalev at this stage in his career would be a 'grand slam home run' for anyone. He's just not an effective player anymore, he's more of a specialist who specialty is inconsistent. Also, I tend to to think that Kovalev's 'love for the Habs' is overstated...this is the same guy who when offered a 4.5 or 5M deal by Gainey 2 years ago, had to sit down and think about it.

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That's true, but there's also plenty of evidence to prove that when Kovalev is "On". He can be a dominant player, regardless of the system you put him in.
I disagree...Kovalev is not a dominant player at this stage in his career, he can have occasional flashes but dominant is pushing it. I just personally don't want to deal with a guy who we always have to wonder if he's 'on' or 'off'...Habs already have Kostitsyn. If the Habs had decided to move Kostitsyn or not qualify him, then I could see and even understand the interest in adding a Kovalev on the 3rd line. But we've already got a resonable fascimile in Kostitsyn...

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Agreed, his last two seasons do not support my case very well. Personally I think he was just going through the motions, and did not want to be in either Ottawa or Pittsburgh. It's just my humble opinion, but I believe that if brought back to Montreal, we would see a more motivated Kovalev
See that's my issue...I see red flags in a guy who after deciding to wait on the Habs offer, he ends up signing for 2 years at 5.5M in Ottawa, just 'goes through the motions' as you said. Do you not see something patently wrong with that?

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07-19-2011, 11:14 AM
  #210
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He sure would have been useful when Cammy was injured for so long last year AND/OR when he was "floating" around for 3 out of 4 games. (I don't actually believe that I just understand that most scorers are that way but Kovy gets overly criticized for this)..

One thing people seem to forget is that Markov has NEVER had success on the PP playing right point and that he only had success with a LH shot from the right point.. I would have one PP unit with:

Markov-Yemelin

DD(or AK46)-Pleks-Kovy

And another with:

Subban-Weber

Gio-Gomez-Cammy

none of them being number 1 or 2.. whichever one produces plays more..

my next 3 on PP would be Eller, AK46 or DD, followed by Cole..

Cole is not a good PP player and I am ecstatic we got him because he helps solve 2 of our biggest problems (ES and size)

For the habs to be successful OUR ONLY HOPE is to be a top 5 PP in the league.. With Cole attracting so many penalties we should get more PP time.. Part of the reason our PP did well last year (although not as well as the Kovy days) is how few opportunities we got.. Hopefully that changes next year.

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07-19-2011, 11:20 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I wasn't comparing Bernier to Kovalev, they're two totally different players...he's just the first name that came to mind. Though personally, I'd just as much role the dice on Bernier over Kovalev personally (if we're in the mood to roll the dice that is), at least Bernier brings added value IMO (right handed shot, big body, and he goes to the net). Now relax Kovy-groupies...this doesn't mean that I think Bernier is better, just that I think he would bring something the Habs need.
Fair enough, I've just never been a fan of Berniers. I'd rather sign one of our posters to fill a roster spot, than sign him.


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Actually, you said exactly that...

"If he does succeed here it's a grand slam home run."...

Sorry, I don't see how Kovalev at this stage in his career would be a 'grand slam home run' for anyone. He's just not an effective player anymore, he's more of a specialist who specialty is inconsistent. Also, I tend to to think that Kovalev's 'love for the Habs' is overstated...this is the same guy who when offered a 4.5 or 5M deal by Gainey 2 years ago, had to sit down and think about it.
Hmmm...I don't remember using those words. If I did, and he does succeed in doing what I hope he would do. Wouldn't you consider that to be a "grand slam home run?" Or at the very least, a 400 ft 3 run shot?

What do you expect for 1mil? If he was, we wouldn't be having this conversation, as his asking price would be 4 or 5 times this amount, maybe more. I'm talking about adding someone for our 3rd line, 2nd PP unit. Not someone to take a spot in our top six.

You may be right, but I feel it was more Kovalev overestimated his own value to the team. Or listened to the advice of his agents, and felt he had more time to negotiate the best price possible.

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I disagree...Kovalev is not a dominant player at this stage in his career, he can have occasional flashes but dominant is pushing it. I just personally don't want to deal with a guy who we always have to wonder if he's 'on' or 'off'...Habs already have Kostitsyn. If the Habs had decided to move Kostitsyn or not qualify him, then I could see and even understand the interest in adding a Kovalev on the 3rd line. But we've already got a resonable fascimile in Kostitsyn...
You misunderstood me. I never said he was a dominant player. What I meant was he can show flashes of being dominant, when he is "On". Which is all we would need from him offensively, being on the third line.

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See that's my issue...I see red flags in a guy who after deciding to wait on the Habs offer, he ends up signing for 2 years at 5.5M in Ottawa, just 'goes through the motions' as you said. Do you not see something patently wrong with that?
I see them too, I've also pointed out a few times that I do have concerns. We're not talking about signing him to a 2 year 5.5M contract though. We're talking about a 1 year, 1M contact. If he shows up every 4th game, you still get your monies worth.

Of course I do, which is why I would never offer Kovalev a contract of more than what is being discussed here. The difference between those situations though (Ottawa/Pittsburgh), I believe Kovalev will be motivated if he returns to Montreal.

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07-19-2011, 11:21 AM
  #212
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and for those of you that said he was bad in playoffs with pens.. you probably didn't watch the pens this post season.. Kovy was at the worst position he could play at and still looked good most of the time.. we all know he sucked in Ottawa but we also all know that he plays a lot better when motivated and that if he called PG to offer his services for 1 M would mean he would be ultra motivated..

I would not take him back any other way..

to compete, we would also need a faceoff specialist AND for Yemelin not to be treated the same way JM treats every other Russian. If he is given a fair chance, we need him to have a good enough shot to be on PP once in a while and be what Komisarek was next to Markov.. with these 2 things, i am confident we would have the depth for the inevitable injuries not to make us a barely playoff team like last year

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07-19-2011, 11:21 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by KingKovy View Post
He sure would have been useful when Cammy was injured for so long last year AND/OR when he was "floating" around for 3 out of 4 games. (I don't actually believe that I just understand that most scorers are that way but Kovy gets overly criticized for this)..

One thing people seem to forget is that Markov has NEVER had success on the PP playing right point and that he only had success with a LH shot from the right point.. I would have one PP unit with:

Markov-Yemelin

DD(or AK46)-Pleks-Kovy

And another with:

Subban-Weber

Gio-Gomez-Cammy

none of them being number 1 or 2.. whichever one produces plays more..

my next 3 on PP would be Eller, AK46 or DD, followed by Cole..

Cole is not a good PP player and I am ecstatic we got him because he helps solve 2 of our biggest problems (ES and size)

For the habs to be successful OUR ONLY HOPE is to be a top 5 PP in the league.. With Cole attracting so many penalties we should get more PP time.. Part of the reason our PP did well last year (although not as well as the Kovy days) is how few opportunities we got.. Hopefully that changes next year.
Pens fans must of thought the same thing when they acquired him for a 7th round pick to cover the losses of Crosby/Malkin, heading into the playoffs.

pffftt

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07-19-2011, 11:27 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Pens fans must of thought the same thing when they acquired him for a 7th round pick to cover the losses of Crosby/Malkin, heading into the playoffs.

pffftt
the last place Kovy should play on a PP is at Markov's spot on the Left point.. Bylsma should have known better than that..


He would also give us at the very lest 3 to 5 more points because of shootouts and that makes a HUGE difference for a team like ours in today's NHL..

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07-19-2011, 11:33 AM
  #215
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07-19-2011, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
If we're talking salary/risk then i agree with you 1mil wouldnt hurt. HOWEVER someone with his character, lazy, at times unmotivated can have a rippling effect in the locker room and on the bench. Especially coming from a veteran who should be displaying the exact opposite. Talent wise, he is an incredible hockey player. He had/has all the tools and skills to be an elite player but he does lack heart. If his heart matched his talent we wouldnt be having this convo. Also i dont think he and Martin would get along because we all know he isnt known for his back-checking and defensive efforts and Martin would rip his head off!

edit: Also considering that we probably have the best locker room in the NHL, chemistry counts for so much and it translates on the ice. Its no coincidence that Gainey and now Gauthier are aquiring character players, players who are proven winners, warriors, hard workers and all in all good people. Kovy wouldnt fit that mold if ya know what i mean.
It's not that I disagree with you. I've watched Kovalev play a lot and I think I added a grey hair or two while watching him play for the Habs. I just think for the price listed in the OP, he would bring a lot more positive, than negative to the table.

I've read that a lot from posters who feel that Kovalev would be a disturbance to the chemistry of our team. The problem with that is, I've never heard or seen a report from a former player or coach where it has come out that he is. Even when Gainey pulled him aside and told him to go home, that blew over very quickly. Which was evident by Gainey himself, offering Kovalev a new contract at the end of the season.

As I mentioned earlier, for 1mil. If he doesn't work out, big deal.

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07-19-2011, 11:35 AM
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Hmmm...I don't remember using those words. If I did, and he does succeed in doing what I hope he would do. Wouldn't you consider that to be a "grand slam home run?" Or at the very least, a 400 ft 3 run shot?
Lol, I copy/pasted it from your post...but anyways, best case scenario...I think Kovy would be more of a ground rule double, then a grand slam homerun lol

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What do you expect for 1mil? If he was, we wouldn't be having this conversation, as his asking price would be 4 or 5 times this amount, maybe more. I'm talking about adding someone for our 3rd line, 2nd PP unit. Not someone to take a spot in our top six.
First of all...I don't think there's a possibility of Kovalev offering his services for 1M, ESPECIALLY to Montreal, I think his ego's way to big for that lol (just an assumption on my part, granted). But again, if the Habs are looking to add a cheap, player to their bottom 6, there are alot better option than Kovalev right now.

But let's just say, God forbid, today we find out Cammalleri hurt himself training in the offseason and will miss the first 3 months of the year. Then signing Kovalev would make more sense to me and it's something I might consider, at the right price of course.

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You may be right, but I feel it was more Kovalev overestimated his own value to the team. Or listened to the advice of his agents, and felt he had more time to negotiate the best price possible.
Well, like I said...I think his 'love of Montreal' is overstated. That was a competitive offer, had he 'loved' Montreal as much as many of his groupies think, he would of been all over that.

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Of course I do, which is why I would never offer Kovalev a contract of more than what is being discussed here. The difference between those situations though (Ottawa/Pittsburgh), I believe Kovalev will be motivated if he returns to Montreal
Kovalev spent the last 1 and a half on a putrid Ottawa Senators team, where he didn't get along with the coach and they missed the playoffs his 1st year and were even worse last year. He had an opportunity to play on a team heading to the playoffs...what more motivation do you need?

Do you guys really believe that the Montreal Canadiens are the center of the universe and some players will try harder here? Come on man lol...no offense, but that's just fantasy. Kovalev flopped in Pittsburgh because they play a high tempo style in Pittsburgh, Bylsma asks alot from his forwards in terms of forechecking and playing at a high tempo and Kovalev just didn't fit in with his 'slow it down' way of playing...and he's too stubborn, or maybe just unable at this point in his career, to adjust his game accordingly. I mean, they brought him over to score goals, the dude had 28 shots on goal in 20 games there

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Originally Posted by KingKovy View Post
the last place Kovy should play on a PP is at Markov's spot on the Left point.. Bylsma should have known better than that..


He would also give us at the very lest 3 to 5 more points because of shootouts and that makes a HUGE difference for a team like ours in today's NHL..
Come on man lol...he didn't play there exclusively. They tried him out there because he wasn't doing anything in his usual right half-board position because he was reluctant to either shoot, or give the puck up.

The Pens tried alot of different things to accomodate Kovalev...but he just didn't fit anywhere, which is why he got benched for their most important game of the year, by one of the best coaches in the game...What does that tell you???

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07-19-2011, 11:43 AM
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It's not that I disagree with you. I've watched Kovalev play a lot and I think I added a grey hair or two while watching him play for the Habs. I just think for the price listed in the OP, he would bring a lot more positive, than negative to the table.

I've read that a lot from posters who feel that Kovalev would be a disturbance to the chemistry of our team. The problem with that is, I've never heard or seen a report from a former player or coach where it has come out that he is. Even when Gainey pulled him aside and told him to go home, that blew over very quickly. Which was evident by Gainey himself, offering Kovalev a new contract at the end of the season.

As I mentioned earlier, for 1mil. If he doesn't work out, big deal.
i agree with your post 100%. The only thing i can say is, even at 1 mil, as a fan i get really frustrated when i see a guy show up once every five, six games. Imagine his team mates, and especially his line mates. Watchin a guy coast along, waiting for the play to come to him, the puck to land on his stick,that's gotta be frustrating. I'd bet my pretty penny that other players are botherd by this type of player, even though they may not be vocal about it.

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07-19-2011, 11:43 AM
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Come on man lol...he didn't play there exclusively. They tried him out there because he wasn't doing anything in his usual right half-board position because he was reluctant to either shoot, or give the puck up.

The Pens tried alot of different things to accomodate Kovalev...but he just didn't fit anywhere, which is why he got benched for their most important game of the year, by one of the best coaches in the game...What does that tell you???

90 + % of the time he was at the left point with the pens.. you think he couldn't recreate the magic with markov?

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07-19-2011, 11:45 AM
  #220
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i agree with your post 100%. The only thing i can say is, even at 1 mil, as a fan i get really frustrated when i see a guy show up once every five, six games. Imagine his team mates, and especially his line mates. Watchin a guy coast along, waiting for the play to come to him, the puck to land on his stick,that's gotta be frustrating. I'd bet my pretty penny that other players are botherd by this type of player, even though they may not be vocal about it.
I guess you wouldn't have taken Mario Lemieux on your team..

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07-19-2011, 11:49 AM
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90 + % of the time he was at the left point with the pens.. you think he couldn't recreate the magic with markov?
I don't know how accurate this number is...but from having watched most of his games, I'd say you're way off.

As for recreating the magic with Markov...sure he could, but so could alot of players on the Habs. Markov makes everyone around him look that much better. I still don't think that would be worth all the other shortcomings he has as a player today.

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I guess you wouldn't have taken Mario Lemieux on your team..
Please explain the correllation between one of the greatest players to ever play the game, and Alex Kovalev.

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07-19-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Please explain the correllation between one of the greatest players to ever play the game, and Alex Kovalev.
calling Kovy a coaster is exactly what Lemieux critics have always said about him..

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07-19-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KingKovy View Post
calling Kovy a coaster is exactly what Lemieux critics have always said about him..
You shouldn't confuse "effortless" and "not putting the effort" when it comes to describing their respective play

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07-19-2011, 11:58 AM
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calling Kovy a coaster is exactly what Lemieux critics have always said about him..
Well i think most players coast...so that doesn't really matter.

Kovalev's perceived lack of effort has never been an issue with me.

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07-19-2011, 12:01 PM
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I guess you wouldn't have taken Mario Lemieux on your team..
your post is an insult to mario.

edit: and paul dipietro basically took the words out of my mouth

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