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Old
07-19-2011, 09:07 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
READ.

I gave the philly analogy for the case of the end of the 2009 season. We should have traded Kovalev, Komisarek, Koivu, Tanguay, Schneider for that matter for young players and picks. That we would have gotten less than philly got is irrelevant, as we would have gotten more than we ended up getting. The worst case scenario is a half-dozen 2nd rounders.
Whatever. I won't change my mind, and you won't change yours. I don't want to see us trade away our UFAs when we are going to make the playoffs.

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07-19-2011, 09:22 AM
  #77
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Huet played on fire after he was traded and almost took a terrible washington team past the flyers. If boston can beat Vancouver anyone can win in a final, that is why they play the games duuuuh.

Everyone would complain we didn't trade our starting goalie right before the playoffs after having the best season in 20 years? Wanna come back and try again?



Oh noes, i've lost all credibility with nail jenkins on hfboards! Whatever will I do? If you want to kiss gaineys ass and make excuses go ahead just don't come in here tossing around "lost all credibilities!!?!?!1!" on an internet forum alright?

The team was on fire that year, everyone was jelling and we were looking like a true contender. Then Huet gets traded for nothing, the team was very shakey in front of Price and he collapses. The rest is history.

Go find me another team that traded their starting goaltender right before the playoffs for nothing.

Tanguay is quite amazing with Iginla, we traded good picks for him and let him go for nothing. Total waste of assets and anyone who throws assets away for nothing doesn't belong near an NHL team.
But that's exactly what you did when you say that we would have won the cup with Huet. It's that brutal a comment. And for a guy who likes to preach about how other people are too optimistic/unrealistic about the team you sure as hell are drinking the grape kool-aid if you actually believe we'd have won the cup with Huet.

First of all a big part of the reason they lost game 7 was Huet allowed a softy. Second of all they lost in the first round and didn't get passed Philly.

Thirdly I really doubt Gainey has a crystal ball and could have known Tanguay would ***** out of playing in the playoffs when the doctors okay'd him to play. If you'd re-sign a guy who bailed out on your team during the playoffs just because he was a pending UFA and worried about his next contract then you shouldn't be anywhere near an NHL team as general manager.

I love how you talk like you're better than Gainey or could have done a better job when it's clear as day not only could you never even do 10% of what Gainey did. You're so deluded you think the Huet trade was the only thing standing between us and the cup

So when a poster says you lost all credibility don't try to turn around and laugh it off with a stupid joke while inserting a bunch of drivel along the way. You aren't better than Gainey, you certainly have lost all credibility though that was long ago not in this thread.

Even a poll on the habs forum you'd lose by a landslide claiming we'd have won the cup with Huet.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 07-19-2011 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Removed some unnecessary comments.
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07-19-2011, 09:24 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Whatever. I won't change my mind, and you won't change yours. I don't want to see us trade away our UFAs when we are going to make the playoffs.
You would have kept Rivet over Gorges and Pacioretty?

Interesting.

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07-19-2011, 09:28 AM
  #79
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The Niinima trade was worst than the Gomez trade. The stars have had a close to a PPG player for the last 5 years. If you take the highest scoring Hab from the last 5 years, they wouldn't have the PPG that Ribeiro has.

Gomez while horrible last year, was integral to building a locker room chemistry for the first time in 15 years in Montreal that has been cohesive. He and Gill were integral to setting the tone in the locker room, then Gionto complimented that by leading on the ice with his work ethic. Secondly there was nobody better available to replace him last year or this year. His cap hit isn't holding us back, we have $8m in cap space, that is enough to go after Brad Richards.

Ribero trade <<< Gomez trade

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07-19-2011, 09:38 AM
  #80
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The Niinima trade was worst than the Gomez trade. The stars have had a close to a PPG player for the last 5 years. If you take the highest scoring Hab from the last 5 years, they wouldn't have the PPG that Ribeiro has.

Gomez while horrible last year, was integral to building a locker room chemistry for the first time in 15 years in Montreal that has been cohesive. He and Gill were integral to setting the tone in the locker room, then Gionto complimented that by leading on the ice with his work ethic. Secondly there was nobody better available to replace him last year or this year. His cap hit isn't holding us back, we have $8m in cap space, that is enough to go after Brad Richards.

Ribero trade <<< Gomez trade
Yeah I feel the same way. We gave up a good player in both deals (Ribeiro >> McDonagh) but at least Gomez can still be a positive contributor. He had a terrible year but there's a chance he can bounce back - with Niinimaa there was absolutely no hope of the guy being anything other than a 7th D playing out his final year, much of it being spent in the press box.

And if people are going to point to his cap hit as a hinderance, well it hasn't been so far.

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07-19-2011, 09:45 AM
  #81
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You would have kept Rivet over Gorges and Pacioretty?

Interesting.
Rivet was scratched a few times prior to the trades and clearly, it wasn't working in Montreal anymore. Trading him was a good move for sure.

But you don't trade away players who are essential to the team. Koivu was our #1 centre, Kovalev was a go to guy, Souray was the reason we had a PP...

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07-19-2011, 10:03 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You wanna buy in years when you're good and sell in years when you're bad, it's not quantum physics.
Except this team was never bad enough to warrant trading away a bunch of key players. They were in the hunt for a playoff spot. No team has a fire sale when they're sitting in 7-10th place.

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07-19-2011, 10:11 AM
  #83
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Except this team was never bad enough to warrant trading away a bunch of key players. They were in the hunt for a playoff spot. No team has a fire sale when they're sitting in 7-10th place.
This team was a bona fide contender in 2007-08.

It was anything but in 2008-09.

I hold that to be fairly obvious.

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07-19-2011, 10:25 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You would have kept Rivet over Gorges and Pacioretty?

Interesting.
That was Gaineys best trade..What a steal..The Ryan O'Byrne trade might end up this way if Bournival is a flop and O'Byrne develops to be a solid defensive d-man..

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07-19-2011, 10:30 AM
  #85
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That was Gaineys best trade..What a steal..The Ryan O'Byrne trade might end up this way if Bournival is a flop and O'Byrne develops to be a solid defensive d-man..
Incredibly doubtful.

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07-19-2011, 11:02 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I gave the philly analogy for the case of the end of the 2009 season. We should have traded Kovalev, Komisarek, Koivu, Tanguay, Schneider for that matter for young players and picks. That we would have gotten less than philly got is irrelevant, as we would have gotten more than we ended up getting. The worst case scenario is a half-dozen 2nd rounders.
The biggest problem of your analogy is, of course, that Philly traded their two top centers because they were having unresolvable locker-room issues, not for hockey reasons.

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07-19-2011, 11:04 AM
  #87
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The biggest problem of your analogy is, of course, that Philly traded their two top centers because they were having unresolvable locker-room issues, not for hockey reasons.
Exactly. No one in their right mind would trade Mike Richards for Schenn and Simmonds as a hockey move.

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07-19-2011, 11:08 AM
  #88
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The biggest problem of your analogy is, of course, that Philly traded their two top centers because they were having unresolvable locker-room issues, not for hockey reasons.
The biggest problem with your non-response is, Gainey blew up the team due to locker room issues and hockey reasons.

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07-19-2011, 11:18 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The biggest problem with your non-response is, Gainey blew up the team due to locker room issues and hockey reasons.
The habs nor the Flyers changed their core in the middle of the season; in both cases, they waited for the summer. So I still don't see what your point is.

Why didn't the Flyers traded Leino at last year's trade deadline if they wanted to change their core and weren't expecting to sign him back? Because they were still thinking about making and going far in the playoffs. Just like the habs back in 2009.

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07-19-2011, 11:30 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
This team was a bona fide contender in 2007-08.

It was anything but in 2008-09.

I hold that to be fairly obvious.
Well obviously. But no team is a seller when they have a realistic chance of making the playoffs. I hold that to be fairly obvious as well.

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07-19-2011, 11:35 AM
  #91
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The biggest problem with your non-response is, Gainey blew up the team due to locker room issues and hockey reasons.
The problem with your like is you use hind-sight to back every single one of your arguments. Which, destroys any integrity your posts might, or might not, have.

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07-19-2011, 11:55 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
********.

A lot of fans knew that Souray, Tanguay, Kovalev, etc should be traded at the deadline. I knew, it was the obvious thing to do.

Look at the Philadelphia GM. He sees a sinking ship, so one year after the cup finals he trades away his two stars for a boatload of picks and young studs.

As for 2007-08, we were the number one team in the Eastern Conference. Price was a young guy in a stressful position and had a nervous breakdown against Philadelphia. We were scoring goals, but his save percentage that series was under .900, as such winning was inconceivable.
While I will concede that I would have liked Souray traded at the deadline, I can also see why it would have been difficulty to do so considering we were in a playoff race. Regardless, I'll grant you that one. On the other hand, I don't think anyone considered trading Tanguay or Kovalev at the deadline that year. In fact, I think Gainey would have been assassinated if he had done so. To move 2 of our top 4 forwards while we hold a playoff position in the centennial season? There's no way to justify that.

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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
READ.

I gave the philly analogy for the case of the end of the 2009 season. We should have traded Kovalev, Komisarek, Koivu, Tanguay, Schneider for that matter for young players and picks. That we would have gotten less than philly got is irrelevant, as we would have gotten more than we ended up getting. The worst case scenario is a half-dozen 2nd rounders.
Absolutely not, in fact we would not have gotten a second rounder for ANY of those assets at the end of the season. Besides the disparity between the calibre of the 5 players you listed and the two that Philly shipped out, those guys were all UFAs, who have next to no trade value (see James Wisniewski- who is in fact younger and more valuable than any of the players above). Philly traded two franchise type players who are locked into longterm deals. Those are assets that will net you a return.

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You would have kept Rivet over Gorges and Pacioretty?

Interesting.
This wasn't even directed at me, but you are taking context out of the equation. Generally speaking it isn't a good idea to sell your vets (even UFAs) at the deadline while you're making a playoff push, but Rivet had been a healthy scratch that season and had stormed out on the club on one occasion that he was scratched. He was not in our top 6, not in our long term plans and quickly becoming a distraction - this is why that particular veteran UFA was moved.

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07-19-2011, 12:48 PM
  #93
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And if Carolina won the cup, and Edmonton made it to the final, anyone can win if they make the playoffs. That's why it took some balls to trade away Huet at the deadline. That's also why you don't trade away players like Souray, Koivu and company at the deadline when you are in or really close from the playoffs.



We don't exactly have the players to aquire a boatload of picks and young studs do we? Or maybe you want to trade Price and Subban?
Anyone with a brain or a clue watching that habs team knew it was half dead completly reliant on Souray. It didn't stand a chance so no, not every team has a chance. You are telling me a team that couldn't even MAKE the playoffs had a chance to win the cup? What was the last 8th place team to win a cup?

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Hahaha wtf

Your shtick is so tired, and now you're resorting to flat-out lying and re-writing history to try and prove your points. Good job.
The caps made the playoffs by 2 points in a terrible division where no one else made the playoffs and needed Huet to go on a 11-2 tear to do it. Then Huet almost carried them over the flyers. You are calling me a liar? Don't embarrass yourself further.

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Detroit and Pittsburgh were much better teams in the playoffs than the Canadiens that year. Huet could stand on his head every night but the fact that the team couldn't bury the best of chances in the second round was just as much a problem as Carey's weak glove hand.

Boston beat Vancouver because Vancouver rolled over and died the second the Bruins turned up the intensity, I wouldn't have expected that from Detroit at all. Huet is also no Tim Thomas. He never was and never will be.



Yes. Everyone complains that we let Souray walk for nothing, that we let Koivu walk for nothing, that we let Ryder, Kovalev, Komisarek, Tanguay walk for nothing. Why wouldn't they complain that we let Huet walk for nothing?

Your argument only really makes sense if the team had won the cup, which they wouldn't have. Huet wasn't as big a part of the teams success that year as some people (generally people who like to complain about everything) would like to believe. The team was second in goals scored that year for God's sake.



The team was 11-3 when Price played in nets after the trade. I don't know how that's considered a collapse. He was also just fine in the Boston series. It wasn't just Price that messed up the Philly series, as I pointed out earlier.



What the hell were we gonna get for Tanguay? Trade him at the deadline while we're trying to secure a playoff spot? Trade him in the offseason after coming off a so-so year and a very questionable injury? If Wiz gets you a 5th-7th rounder after the best season of his career, what the hell do you expect to get for a possibly severely injured Tanguay?
Washington and Pittsburgh were much better teams too, means next to nothing when you have a hot goaltender. Ask Leighton and then ask boston.

Leighton is no tim thomas either but he went right to the finals too didn`t he? I guess Huet is no leighton either. It makes me laugh that you "fans" and I use that term loosely, have no expectations of going to the finals after dominating all year. God the excuses are just thick.

I already explained why Huet shouldn't have been let go and why it would have been acceptable to let him walk, go back and read.

My argument makes perfect sense to pretty much every GM that has ever existed apparently. Go and find me another GM that has traded his starting goaltender a couple weeks before a big playoff run. Go ahead look.

Price wasn't fine, he wasn't ready. We almost lost to poor boston team and he was not ready at all in the philly series. He let in terrible weak goals and cost us all momentum after we completely dominated them. Pretty straight forward stuff here.

If you know you aren't going to sign a player you gave up good assets for you trade his right. Doesn't matter what we got for Tanguay, something is better than nothing. Makes your meandering arguments pretty moot.

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But that's exactly what you did when you say that we would have won the cup with Huet. It's that brutal a comment. And for a guy who likes to preach about how other people are too optimistic/unrealistic about the team you sure as hell are drinking the grape kool-aid if you actually believe we'd have won the cup with Huet.

First of all a big part of the reason they lost game 7 was Huet allowed a softy. Second of all they lost in the first round and didn't get passed Philly.

Thirdly I really doubt Gainey has a crystal ball and could have known Tanguay would ***** out of playing in the playoffs when the doctors okay'd him to play. If you'd re-sign a guy who bailed out on your team during the playoffs just because he was a pending UFA and worried about his next contract then you shouldn't be anywhere near an NHL team as general manager.

I love how you talk like you're better than Gainey or could have done a better job when it's clear as day not only could you never even do 10% of what Gainey did. You're so deluded you think the Huet trade was the only thing standing between us and the cup

So when a poster says you lost all credibility don't try to turn around and laugh it off with a stupid joke while inserting a bunch of drivel along the way. You aren't better than Gainey, you certainly have lost all credibility though that was long ago not in this thread.

Even a poll on the habs forum you'd lose by a landslide claiming we'd have won the cup with Huet.
It is optimistic to expect a cup after finishing top 3 in the league with two hot goalies (before trade)? Wow erxpectations have really sunk low, I thought this team used to be the best now you guys barely expect to make the playoffs let alone contend. I was being more realistic than anything and if you ever watch hockey you will notice many teams gel for a single amazing year and then the window closes and they come back down. Edmonton, Calgary, Boston and Montreal in recent memory have all had cinderella runs for one reason or another and that was our year.

Wow Huet let in a softy? They would have missed without him and Price let in several softies a night. Point irrelevant.

You don't move assets for a 1st line player and then throw them away, unless you want to be on the outside looking in.

You know what, the fact i would not have made the gomez trade already puts me head and toes above gainey, I can just sit on my hands and make sideways moves too. He rode past success and his playing career here, it really amazes me he lasted as long as he did.

I will laugh at anyone who throws around the "credibility" line on an internet forum. That is some funny ****.

I would lose in a poll by a landslide on these forums? That doesn't suprise me one bit, these are the same people who were more than overjoyed to get gomez and thought gainey was the best GM in the league. When people disagree with me on here I almost feel confirmation of my beliefs LOL

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07-19-2011, 01:09 PM
  #94
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Anyone with a brain or a clue watching that habs team knew it was half dead completly reliant on Souray. It didn't stand a chance so no, not every team has a chance. You are telling me a team that couldn't even MAKE the playoffs had a chance to win the cup? What was the last 8th place team to win a cup?
No team does that though. If you can realistically make the playoffs, then you don't trade away key players for picks. You don't. It doesn't happen.

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Washington and Pittsburgh were much better teams too, means next to nothing when you have a hot goaltender. Ask Leighton and then ask boston.

Leighton is no tim thomas either but he went right to the finals too didn`t he? I guess Huet is no leighton either. It makes me laugh that you "fans" and I use that term loosely, have no expectations of going to the finals after dominating all year. God the excuses are just thick.
Lol, so because I'm realistic I'm not a "fan"? I'd say the guy that wants to see the team fail for five years in a row so that we can MAYBE win a cup in another five years is the questionable fan.

I didn't have low expectations that year. I was pretty excited and I thought the team had a legitimate chance. Not because of Huet but because everything was clicking so well. When I saw the team slowly lose it's touch during the Boston series and into the Philly series, I realized that Huet wouldn't have been the solution. Like I said, the team couldn't buy a goal against the Flyers, how the hell would Huet have changed anything?

Leighton really wasn't that hot either. The Habs were just awful in that series. He didn't look so hot against Chicago did he?

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I already explained why Huet shouldn't have been let go and why it would have been acceptable to let him walk, go back and read.
Yeah, and it's a lame explanation and only makes sense if you're genuinely delusional enough to believe that Huet was the only thing keeping this team from winning the cup.

Quote:
My argument makes perfect sense to pretty much every GM that has ever existed apparently. Go and find me another GM that has traded his starting goaltender a couple weeks before a big playoff run. Go ahead look.
I never said it was a good move, it might have bought us a few more wins against the Flyers but I doubt much more than that. But if we didn't trade him and we let him walk, I guarantee you'd be complaining that we didn't try to move him at the deadline.

Similarly, you find me a team that was fighting for a playoff spot, no matter how bad, that gave up key players at the deadline for pick. Go ahead look.

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Price wasn't fine, he wasn't ready. We almost lost to poor boston team and he was not ready at all in the philly series. He let in terrible weak goals and cost us all momentum after we completely dominated them. Pretty straight forward stuff here.
I'm not talking about the playoffs. I'm talking about the final month of the regular season, where he went 12-3. And even in all the domination on the ice, the team couldn't bury ridiculous open net chances. Would Huet have been able to score on all those open nets?

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If you know you aren't going to sign a player you gave up good assets for you trade his right. Doesn't matter what we got for Tanguay, something is better than nothing. Makes your meandering arguments pretty moot.
Alright, so Gainey should have preoccupied himself with getting 7th round picks for busted up players coming off some of their worst seasons instead of focusing on the draft and free agency, gotcha.

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Edmonton, Calgary, Boston and Montreal in recent memory have all had cinderella runs for one reason or another and that was our year.
LOL

So you want us to be like Edmonton and Calgary? That would satisfy you? And Boston didn't have a cinderella run. They were third in the conference, had an incredibly deep team, and had an awesome goaltender who had been amazing from day one of the regular season.

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07-19-2011, 01:12 PM
  #95
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The problem with your like is you use hind-sight to back every single one of your arguments. Which, destroys any integrity your posts might, or might not, have.
Absolute nonsense.

Tons of habs fans knew at the time that 2009 was a debacle and that the team should sell. I am not unique in that regard, it was a standard view among Habs fans.

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07-19-2011, 01:14 PM
  #96
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Absolute nonsense.

Tons of habs fans knew at the time that 2009 was a debacle and that the team should sell. I am not unique in that regard, it was a standard view among Habs fans.
Yeah, we knew we should probably sell, but unfortunately, that's not what GMs do when they can still make the playoffs. Gainey's not the first GM to hold onto assets at the deadline when his team is sitting in 8th place.

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07-19-2011, 01:19 PM
  #97
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Yeah, we knew we should probably sell, but unfortunately, that's not what GMs do when they can still make the playoffs. Gainey's not the first GM to hold onto assets at the deadline when his team is sitting in 8th place.
No, he's not the first to make that mistake. The worst example is Florida, who held onto Bouwmeester at the deadline and then finished in 9th place.

NHL general management is not a game of lemmings. If other GMs make mistakes, we should use that as an advantage, not an excuse. That Florida failed to trade Bouwmeester means we can boost our regular season totals by beating up on them for years to come.

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07-19-2011, 01:31 PM
  #98
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Wee Bey Brice did you watch the Montreal Philly series?

With your comments which conflict with my memory, you made me look up the score sheets. My memory was fine. Our offense was adequate that series, we scored at a healthy pace, but Price was having a nervous breakdown.

May 3rd, 2008, Philly wins 6-4, Price lets in 5 goals on 36 shots
April 30th, Philly wins 4-2, Halak lets in 3 goals on 25 shots
April 28th, Philly wins 3-2, Price lets in 3 goals on 12 shots, gets taken out, and Philly turtles the rest of the game firing only an additional 2 shots on Halak.
April 26th, Philly wins 4-2, Price lets in 4 goals on 23 shots.
April 24th, Montreal wins 4-3, Price lets in 3 goals on 33 shots

His save percentage was .858 and thus we lost 3 of those 4 games with a total score of 15-12 not including an empty netter. Put an average NHL goalie with a .912 save percentage in there, let alone Huet, and we would have outscored them over those 4 games, by a total score of 12-9. We would have won 3 of 4 rather than lost 3 of 4 games.

12 goals in 4 games is actually above average offense. Average offense for the playoffs is 10 goals in 4 games.

With Huet in nets, we were a bona fide stanley cup contender.

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07-19-2011, 01:58 PM
  #99
Freaky Habs Fan
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Anyone with a brain or a clue watching that habs team knew it was half dead completly reliant on Souray. It didn't stand a chance so no, not every team has a chance. You are telling me a team that couldn't even MAKE the playoffs had a chance to win the cup? What was the last 8th place team to win a cup?
It's not unusual to see the 8th place team beat the best team in the conferance. We did it a few times. Now sure, we haven't won the cup, but beating the best team means we can beat anyone.

Our cup run last season was pretty much that. We beat Washington and Pittsburgh, two top team. I don't think we would have beaten Chicago, but we would have had a chance if we could have beaten Philly.

And some teams are raising their game up in the playoffs. We are one of those team. So yeah, if you can make the playoffs, you have a chance to win the cup. Therefore, if you have a chance to make the playoffs, and you are not in a full rebuilding mode, you have to go for it.

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07-19-2011, 02:02 PM
  #100
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We've traded like 5 second rounders in 3 years and have nothing to show for it lol.

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