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Boyes for Manny Maholtra

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Old
07-18-2011, 02:49 PM
  #26
Myllz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
Where are these two centers going to play? Roy, Leino, Hecht, Gaustad will most likely be the starting four with Adam a possibility in the minors and Boyes, McCormick able to play it if needed. Sekera, Gragnani, Enroth are the only guys left to sign and possibly a 13th forward if Adam doesn't make the team.
Put Hecht and Leino on the wing.

Either way, they're not signing two more centers. People need to realize they're not going to fix every problem this off-season.

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07-18-2011, 02:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Put Hecht and Leino on the wing.

Either way, they're not signing two more centers. People need to realize they're not going to fix every problem this off-season.
I realize they could easily move Leino/Hecht to wing, but that's not going to happen. If these centers were so easy to acquire we likely wouldn't be trying Leino there and Tim Connolly certainly wouldn't be making $4.5 million next year.

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07-18-2011, 03:35 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
Roy, Leino, Hecht, Gaustad will most likely be the starting four with Adam a possibility in the minors and Boyes, McCormick able to play it if needed. Sekera, Gragnani, Enroth are the only guys left to sign and possibly a 13th forward if Adam doesn't make the team.
I really don't see why the "13th forward" topic seems to pressing for many - did Ruff or Regier ever say they plan on carrying an extra forward? Sure it'd be nice to get a 3rd line center so Gaustad can play 4th line minutes but with their 3-year deal to McCormick, he's not going to sit. Odds are that, when injuries strike, either Adam or Ellis (if he's re-signed) will be the 13th guy to get called-up IMO.

And, as this thread chronicled, the Sabres should be OK in cap space if they waive/demote Kotalik & Morrisonn, and get Sekera signed to a $2.5M cap hit or less (which seems very possible).

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=948431

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
People need to realize they're not going to fix every problem this off-season.
Agreed - I think what Rob Ray described on WGR today made sense. Most teams have added the players they want on their team - barring the round of arbitration rulings that may force some player shuffling, most teams are probably going to wait til training camp and see how the new additions and prospects they're banking on pan out before making any tweaks to the roster.

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Old
07-18-2011, 04:45 PM
  #29
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I don't see Vancouver making this deal. Goose and manny are your similar prototypical grinders. Physical, good defensively and two of the best faceoff guys in the league. I do agree goose belongs as 4th liner, pk and as the important faceoff guy. If adam has a good camp bring him up as the 3rd center.

Vanek-Roy-Stafford
Ennis-Leino-Pominville
Gerbe-Adam-Boyes
Hecht-Gaustad-Kaleta
McCormick

Regehr-Myers
Leopold-Ehrhoff
Sekera-Weber
Gragnani

Miller
Enroth

Could see pominville switched with stafford and hecht for gerbe.

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07-18-2011, 07:16 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Could someone post our cap situation? We do have enough if we dump Kotalik and Morrison in the minors/Europe right?
NHL Cap = $64,300,000

Current Sabres' cap used up per CapGeek = $63,945,357

Combined worth of Kotalik & Morrisonn cap hit = $5,075,000

$63,945,357 - $5,075,000 = $58,870,357

$64,300,000 - $58,870,357 = $5,429,643 - $1,000,000 cushion = $4,429,643 to use on the 3 RFAs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boarwarrior27 View Post
We would have 5.4 million in cap space but we still have to trade Sekera because Andrej will likely get a 2.5 million reward from arbitration.
Even if Sekera were to go to arbitration and be awarded a cap hit of $3.0M (which I think is unlikely to happen), is it really likely that Enroth + Gragnani will add up to $1.4M of cap space? Neither has played enough NHL games to earn any negotiation leverage.

I think the Sabres can - and should - hold onto Boyes til they see how Pominville recovers and Boyes starts the season after a miserable playoff, and likewise keep Sekera. I'm totally OK with Adam (or Ellis) being the 1st reserve to be called up and see no benefit to having an extra forward sit in the press box every game just for peace of mind and convenience.

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Old
07-18-2011, 07:30 PM
  #31
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People on the main boards keep making this proposals of Boyes for a 3C, but really, I'm comfortable with Gaustad @ 3C and McCormick @ 4C. Boyes has the potential to score 50-60 points and any 3C we trade for won't be doing that for us.

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Old
07-18-2011, 09:02 PM
  #32
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sounds like a good deal on paper but I'll pass.. Manny has to much baggage and I see future injury issues looming, aside from that Boyes is in until Pommers is healthy ..


Ennis-Roy-Stafford
Vanek-Leino-Boyes
Gerbe-Gaustad-McCormick
Hecht-Adam-Kaleta
Pominville

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Old
07-18-2011, 11:06 PM
  #33
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Vancouver will not trade Manny because he is so vital to their PK. He is what the team lacked since Linden retired, a strong 3rd line center who can win faceoffs and play solid checking line hockey.

Boyes's value is so low right now that he is worth keeping around.

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Old
07-18-2011, 11:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
Vancouver will not trade Manny because he is so vital to their PK. He is what the team lacked since Linden retired, a strong 3rd line center who can win faceoffs and play solid checking line hockey.

Boyes's value is so low right now that he is worth keeping around.
I don't see why it would be any lower than the second rounder we picked him up for.

He still scored 55 points last year, including 14 in 21 games for the Sabres. Those are still pretty damn good numbers.

Yes, he stunk when he had to play center at the end of the season and in the playoffs. But when he was playing his natural position of winger he played really well.

The only reason his trade value would be lower was if a team figured we were desperate to move salary for cap reasons and leveraged that into paying less for Boyes. But otherwise, his value is probably about the same--a 2nd round pick (or player/prospect equivalent).

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Old
07-19-2011, 09:52 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
I really don't see why the "13th forward" topic seems to pressing for many - did Ruff or Regier ever say they plan on carrying an extra forward? Sure it'd be nice to get a 3rd line center so Gaustad can play 4th line minutes but with their 3-year deal to McCormick, he's not going to sit. Odds are that, when injuries strike, either Adam or Ellis (if he's re-signed) will be the 13th guy to get called-up IMO.

And, as this thread chronicled, the Sabres should be OK in cap space if they waive/demote Kotalik & Morrisonn, and get Sekera signed to a $2.5M cap hit or less (which seems very possible).

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=948431



Agreed - I think what Rob Ray described on WGR today made sense. Most teams have added the players they want on their team - barring the round of arbitration rulings that may force some player shuffling, most teams are probably going to wait til training camp and see how the new additions and prospects they're banking on pan out before making any tweaks to the roster.
This is how I feel as well. Either Adam will make the team with a solid camp to give us 13 forwards or we'll carry 12 IMO. Sekera or Gragnani could play forward for a game in a pinch i we're on the road and Rochester is close enough that we could call someone up for a long term injury.

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07-19-2011, 09:59 AM
  #36
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Boyes was 19th in scoring for RW, he is a great 2nd line or borderline top line player, worth far more Malhotra.

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07-19-2011, 10:37 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
This is how I feel as well. Either Adam will make the team with a solid camp to give us 13 forwards or we'll carry 12 IMO. Sekera or Gragnani could play forward for a game in a pinch i we're on the road and Rochester is close enough that we could call someone up for a long term injury.
I hate the idea of carrying only 12 forwards. People are going to get hurt. Sometimes multiple people in one night of a West coast road trip. These things happen.

Having to rely on Sekera or Grags to play forward or on bringing someone up from Rochester for EVERY injury is a recipe for disaster IMO.

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07-19-2011, 10:43 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
I hate the idea of carrying only 12 forwards. People are going to get hurt. Sometimes multiple people in one night of a West coast road trip. These things happen.

Having to rely on Sekera or Grags to play forward or on bringing someone up from Rochester for EVERY injury is a recipe for disaster IMO.
Yeah. I think people are assuming it's only 45 mins to call someone up, but that's not the case if either team is playing on the road.

What happens when Rochester is playing in San Antonio and someone comes down with the flu on game-day? You're not gonna get the callup in time.

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07-19-2011, 10:44 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
I hate the idea of carrying only 12 forwards. People are going to get hurt. Sometimes multiple people in one night of a West coast road trip. These things happen.

Having to rely on Sekera or Grags to play forward or on bringing someone up from Rochester for EVERY injury is a recipe for disaster IMO.
Which is why I hope Adam makes the team out of camp. That allows Kaleta or McCormick to be the 13th forward/ injury replacement. We've seen Regier/Ruff carry only 12 forwards in the past, which is why I think it's a possibility.

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Old
07-19-2011, 10:49 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
Which is why I hope Adam makes the team out of camp. That allows Kaleta or McCormick to be the 13th forward/ injury replacement. We've seen Regier/Ruff carry only 12 forwards in the past, which is why I think it's a possibility.
We've seen them do it for short periods of time with a backup plan always in place. We've never seen them go into a season completely healthy with only 12 forwards. And you can't assume Adam makes it right away, unless it's out of pure necessity, which could stunt his development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords
Yeah. I think people are assuming it's only 45 mins to call someone up, but that's not the case if either team is playing on the road.

What happens when Rochester is playing in San Antonio and someone comes down with the flu on game-day? You're not gonna get the callup in time.
Exactly. And then your only options are to dress a defenseman as a forward (assuming we have enough defensemen handy), or play a game with a shortened bench. Both of which are terrible options when we could sign a $750K vet like the Grier-man.

It comes down to cap space. Keeping both Boyes and Sekera is ideal, but I don't want to see the team hamstrung by it. I guess if Poms starts on LTIR we have a month or so to figure it out, but I don't think new, proactive Darcy is going to wait that long.

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Old
07-19-2011, 11:05 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
We've seen them do it for short periods of time with a backup plan always in place. We've never seen them go into a season completely healthy with only 12 forwards. And you can't assume Adam makes it right away, unless it's out of pure necessity, which could stunt his development.
I think Adam could impress enough at camp to earn a shot at the 3C spot. I don't think playing with guys like Hecht and Boyes would stunt his development.

Quote:
Exactly. And then your only options are to dress a defenseman as a forward (assuming we have enough defensemen handy), or play a game with a shortened bench. Both of which are terrible options when we could sign a $750K vet like the Grier-man.

It comes down to cap space. Keeping both Boyes and Sekera is ideal, but I don't want to see the team hamstrung by it.
If it comes down to a depth 13th forward or Sekera/Boyes, I'd take the latter any day. Both of those guys can contribute a lot more than someone like Grier or Ellis will. It would take two injuries in one game to really cause a problem since both Sekera and Gragnani have played forward in their careers. If it's a one game fill-in, I don't see the problem. One of them will be sitting in the press box anyway. If two guys do get hurt in one game, they could have a guy on the next flight out of Rochester or wherever they are and he could be there in time for the next game. I don't want to see them shed salary and a good player to make room for a worst case scenario that may never happen.

Quote:
I guess if Poms starts on LTIR we have a month or so to figure it out, but I don't think new, proactive Darcy is going to wait that long.
I don't think Pominville starts the season on LTIR. According to his end of the season interview, he should be good to go by September. Even if he doesn't play in Europe, it seems like he'll be back once they come back to NA.

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Old
07-19-2011, 02:12 PM
  #42
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Canucks fan here that believes Manny is overrated. He wins faceoffs yes, he's ok on the pk.. He was a 3rd liner before his injury.. 4th liner after..

Do I think he's a great 3rd line player? not for 2 or 3 million (whatever he makes) a season..

I would take Boyes every day of the week if he makes similar money to the Manny

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