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Old
07-19-2011, 02:49 PM
  #26
417
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
No idea what offers the veteran centers on the market are getting. But they aren't legion. No guarantees one is still available in September if Engqvist isn't looking so good, if that's the thinking. I'd say just sign somebody now. It doesn't have to mean that guy can't get beat out by Engqvist. And eventually there will be injuries anyway, so both of them will play at some point in a long season (if Engqvist is really that close). Ryan Johnson at $550k is an insurance policy you can't really go wrong with.
I've also brought him up a few times...but he's left handed if i'm not mistaken. Maybe a guy like Adam Mair could do the job.

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07-19-2011, 02:58 PM
  #27
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We have some options for Depth at Center:

White
DD
Engvist
Wilsie
Leblanc


add in the depth at wing with guys like:

Blunden
Palushaj
Conboy
Avtsyn

Also there is the chance we could use a D as the 12th F:

Diaz
Weber


All in all I think we have the deoth. The question is....is management ready to start the year like this or will they want a vet in there? I would like to see us go with the guys. There is always waivers & trades if it doesn't work out.

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07-19-2011, 03:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
No idea what offers the veteran centers on the market are getting. But they aren't legion. No guarantees one is still available in September if Engqvist isn't looking so good, if that's the thinking. I'd say just sign somebody now. It doesn't have to mean that guy can't get beat out by Engqvist. And eventually there will be injuries anyway, so both of them will play at some point in a long season (if Engqvist is really that close). Ryan Johnson at $550k is an insurance policy you can't really go wrong with.
If they can get Ryan Johnson at $550K...sure. Bring him on.

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Old
07-19-2011, 04:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If we sign Johnson, Engqvist will be on the team either way as Johnson is guaranteed to get hurt.
This is getting ridiculous. Pyatt may be smaller than Engqvist, but he plays with more tenacity and determination and wins more puck battles in his own zone to help clear. He is better on the PK and scored more in the AHL.

Plus, Engqvist is way more expensive.

Surely, if we let go Halpern and Pyatt the plan had to be to get BETTER players, not give a free pass to slow-poke Engqvist!!!

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07-19-2011, 04:14 PM
  #30
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I'd like for us to give Engqvist a shot at training camp first, time to start developing these guys instead of signing temporary solutions (Moore, Metro, Halpern, etc). If he doesn't look ready for it then worst case scenario is we have to go knock on someones door before season starts. Should be a few teams with spare fourth liners before the season.

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07-19-2011, 04:31 PM
  #31
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Yeah, Engqvist is big, young, skilled, and defensively responsible, I'd like to see him in the lineup to start the regular season, only time will tell.

The Habs depth at center isn't bad at all

Eller
Desharnais
Engqvist
White

I can't wait to see Bournival in a Habs jersey.

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Old
07-19-2011, 04:54 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
I'd like for us to give Engqvist a shot at training camp first, time to start developing these guys instead of signing temporary solutions (Moore, Metro, Halpern, etc). If he doesn't look ready for it then worst case scenario is we have to go knock on someones door before season starts. Should be a few teams with spare fourth liners before the season.
Is the NHL the best place for Engqvist to be developing? I haven't heard any reports that he is too good for the AHL yet.

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Old
07-19-2011, 04:58 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Subnordi View Post
Yeah, Engqvist is big, young, skilled, and defensively responsible, I'd like to see him in the lineup to start the regular season, only time will tell.

The Habs depth at center isn't bad at all

Eller
Desharnais
Engqvist
White

I can't wait to see Bournival in a Habs jersey.
Is he playing in Shawi or Hamilton this year?

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Old
07-19-2011, 05:16 PM
  #34
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Having watched the games last year, what in heaven's name would prompt anyone to place Engqvist in the NHL ahead of Darche??

If anyone is vulnerable, it might be White, he is the least reliable defensively and the slowest forward on the team, aside from Engqvist himself of course.

White's main plus is that he is one of very few willing to drop the gloves. His hits do not really result in anything much useful such as turnovers or goals. But for some people, it is nice to have one more guy who is willing to fight. It is entertaining at least, even if not much help in terms of protection (the Pacioretty mugging occured in the same game White stepped up on Boychuk to pretend to avenge a dangerous hit on Subban, which was actually not a cheap hit at all, just Subban making a sudden move to avoid contact and jumping at the same time.)
Thank you! Finally somebody who realizes on a lot of teams including ours Darche is a #10-12 and on a solid team he's one of the best #13's in the league. The guy gets no credit meanwhile he worked his ass off got into the NHL and put up points like crazy. He isn't a top 6 forward but he's one of the most coachable players ever. He will do anything JM tells him to do pretty much and he does it well. He isn't a finesse guy, he's a damn hard worker and I expect him to be equally good this year.

I can't believe people put him in the #13 even if it's due to toughness or Enquvist centering.

I don't get how people don't see Darche can even be a reliable 3rd line scoring winger. He won't put up 50pts but for stretches he can be reliable in the position.

Unreal how people just label him a #13 because that's what he was before last season.

59gp 12g 14a 26p 10PIM +7

1st actual NHL season and he had an injury.

Could have been a 40pt guy. Tell me, how in any ****ed up world is a guy in his first season who is a +7 (doesn't hurt the team) 6'1" 210lbs decently physical (nothing crazy) point getter not at least a #12 idgaf about his age.

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Old
07-19-2011, 05:48 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
I'd like for us to give Engqvist a shot at training camp first, time to start developing these guys instead of signing temporary solutions (Moore, Metro, Halpern, etc). If he doesn't look ready for it then worst case scenario is we have to go knock on someones door before season starts. Should be a few teams with spare fourth liners before the season.
I'll grant that Metro and Halpern were older guys, but Moore?

We got him at age 29, and he should have been FAR from a temporary solution. He is fast, responsible, has average size for a center and some offensive flair, and can play tough minutes against top-6 forward lines! By all reports, he was willing to sign here long-term and if so, it was a mistake to not do so.

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Old
07-19-2011, 05:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I'll grant that Metro and Halpern were older guys, but Moore?

We got him at age 29, and he should have been FAR from a temporary solution. He is fast, responsible, has average size for a center and some offensive flair, and can play tough minutes against top-6 forward lines! By all reports, he was willing to sign here long-term and if so, it was a mistake to not do so.
Letting Moore go was a mistake, but we have to give a chance to our prospects some time.

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Old
07-19-2011, 06:53 PM
  #37
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We didn't let Moore go.. Moore priced himself out of Montreal, just like he did in TO and among others IMO.

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07-19-2011, 08:30 PM
  #38
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We didn't let Moore go.. Moore priced himself out of Montreal, just like he did in TO and among others IMO.
Priced out of Montreal, don't make me laugh.

Moore wanted two years, just like Dan Ellis, and PG didn't agree.

Funnily enough, we now gave Peter Budaj two years and some folks are seriously considering Andreas Engqvist at $900k when Moore signed for a cap hit of only $1.15M.

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07-19-2011, 09:44 PM
  #39
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The fact that we didn't sign anyone from the FA pool yet leads me to believe PG will make a trade before the start of the season. Some good 4th liners will be available once camp is running, better than Mair or Johnson.

God I miss hockey... but I love summer so much!

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Old
07-19-2011, 10:54 PM
  #40
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Is he playing in Shawi or Hamilton this year?
Shawinigan, they're the memorial cup host too

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Old
07-19-2011, 10:55 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Priced out of Montreal, don't make me laugh.

Moore wanted two years, just like Dan Ellis, and PG didn't agree.

Funnily enough, we now gave Peter Budaj two years and some folks are seriously considering Andreas Engqvist at $900k when Moore signed for a cap hit of only $1.15M.
A 600k saving on a longterm player seems like a pretty good investment to me...

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:55 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ScopeHockey View Post
Centers are moving all the time and White is pretty good when he's in movement. Plus, as a 4th line center you don't exactly play against the quickest opponents.
By that logic it doesn't matter if your centers are good skaters????

That is so wrong don't even know where to start........

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Old
07-20-2011, 08:16 AM
  #43
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I've also brought him up a few times...but he's left handed if i'm not mistaken. Maybe a guy like Adam Mair could do the job.
I tend to think of a guy like Mair as more of a banger, less of a faceoff/defensive guy. At a certain tipping point, I would probably forego the concern about which way the center shoots. If Johnson, Draper, and Madden shoot left (not sure), but are the best overall combination of wheels/age, defensive savvy, intangibles (Cup wins, leadership, etc) and general faceoff ability (as clutch defensive/PK centers), then I wouldn't go too far chasing down the RH attribute. Can't have everything at this point, alas.

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Old
07-20-2011, 08:56 AM
  #44
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Letting Moore go was a mistake, but we have to give a chance to our prospects some time.
Again...that opinion doesn't hold any water.

We got Halpern for half the price and he had a better faceoff%, much much better +- and better 5 on 5 production rate. With a team tight to the cap it was a brilliant move by Gauthier.

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Old
07-20-2011, 09:00 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Subnordi View Post
Yeah, Engqvist is big, young, skilled, and defensively responsible, I'd like to see him in the lineup to start the regular season, only time will tell.

The Habs depth at center isn't bad at all

Eller
Desharnais
Engqvist
White

I can't wait to see Bournival in a Habs jersey.
Not sure about the "big"(he's built like a beanpole) or "skilled"(he put up 0.36 PPGM AHL).

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Old
07-20-2011, 09:01 AM
  #46
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Again...that opinion doesn't hold any water.

We got Halpern for half the price and he had a better faceoff%, much much better +- and better 5 on 5 production rate. With a team tight to the cap it was a brilliant move by Gauthier.
Not to mention that Moore was used sparingly on the PK by Martin, while Halpern became one of our best PKers.

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Old
07-20-2011, 09:24 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
More "NHL-ready" wingers than centres? In any event, I'd likely put Darche in that lineup instead of Moen anyway.
Thanks you. I am not the only black sheep that thinks this.

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Old
07-20-2011, 09:39 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Priced out of Montreal, don't make me laugh.

Moore wanted two years, just like Dan Ellis, and PG didn't agree.

Funnily enough, we now gave Peter Budaj two years and some folks are seriously considering Andreas Engqvist at $900k when Moore signed for a cap hit of only $1.15M.
The only reason Moore got 1.15M is because, you guessed it, he priced himself out.

IIRC, he signed in late July when most teams had their rosters almost fully complete.

Joke's on you

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Old
07-20-2011, 10:01 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I tend to think of a guy like Mair as more of a banger, less of a faceoff/defensive guy. At a certain tipping point, I would probably forego the concern about which way the center shoots. If Johnson, Draper, and Madden shoot left (not sure), but are the best overall combination of wheels/age, defensive savvy, intangibles (Cup wins, leadership, etc) and general faceoff ability (as clutch defensive/PK centers), then I wouldn't go too far chasing down the RH attribute. Can't have everything at this point, alas.
Agreed...but I don't think that could hurt the Habs.

And I recall Mair from his Sabres days, I remember him being quite difficult to play against, something's happened to him the last two years though.

Either way, could be an option as a camp try-out I guess...just an option.

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Old
07-20-2011, 10:14 AM
  #50
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Moore's a better player than Halpern and I wish the current team had him for $1.2M. But anyway, that's all spilt milk under the bridge now. Habs could have gone back to him later, after all, since Halpern was a late addition too. But we're on to this year's late addition, not last year's.

Mair in his prime Sabres days would of course be of interest, I'm not sure what he does now. But that's not much unlike the other guys. Draper still got 6 goals in 47 games. Johnson looked good late in the season. Madden probably has the highest profile and productivity (and pricetag) of them all. Anyway, I have no strong opinion on the specific player, just a strong opinion that we should try to add one. (Maybe Gauthier has already tried, and failed, and the book is closed for now).

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