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Old
07-20-2011, 12:40 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I'm glad you find yourself to be depressing!

Yeah, I can't wait for the upcoming season. If things stay as they are and there's any kind of injury/illness/suspension, we won't have the cap space to fill a roster, just like a few years ago. It's amazing that Homer can make the same mistakes repeatedly and keep his job.
If that happens, I bet we get to see his Randy Jones trick. You know, the one where he makes a player disappear, yet his cap hit remains.

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07-20-2011, 12:43 PM
  #52
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Ah it took 5 seconds for Carters lover to turn up...

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07-20-2011, 12:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
it's a good article, but a little pessimistic.

sure, the Lilja signing is a pretty pointless one, and the Bacashihua signing is even more boneheaded.

But while they are filling out our contract limit, they aren't players who are going to have a negative affect on the team, in all likelihood. Lilja is a solid 6th or 7th defenseman. A good depth player to have come playoff time.

i think maybe we'll see another move or 2 before the season starts
I'm just going to put this out there now so you don't get your hopes too high.

Lilja sucks.

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07-20-2011, 12:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Ah it took 5 seconds for Carters lover to turn up...
I fail to see how Carter is relevant to Homer's puzzling cap/roster decisions.

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07-20-2011, 12:50 PM
  #55
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Is it really that puzzling outside o lilja? The flyers are a what if team at the moment.

How about looking at things positively.

What if schenn is brilliant
What if voracek breaks out
What if jvr breaks out.
What if pronged returns 100%
what if Talbot and simmonds tear **** up.
What if jagr makes Crosby his *****.

So many what ifs that could go right. We can have a little optimism on this board sometimes.

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Old
07-20-2011, 12:53 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Is it really that puzzling outside o lilja? The flyers are a what if team at the moment.

How about looking at things positively.

What if schenn is brilliant
What if voracek breaks out
What if jvr breaks out.
What if pronged returns 100%
what if Talbot and simmonds tear **** up.
What if jagr makes Crosby his *****.

So many what ifs that could go right. We can have a little optimism on this board sometimes.
Go for it.

I bet you can pull it off without petulant snark towards quite plausible pessimism towards your rosy picture.

For example, I'd just give up on 100% Pronger right now.

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07-20-2011, 01:15 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Here come the armchair gm's proclaiming that they knew how the Market was going to run and how the flyer could have improved their team significantly more.

Richards and Carter were traded for a reason. Get over it. On top of that what happens if the flyers go into the Market without signing a goaltender. What happens if vokoun still signs in wash and bryz signs somewhere else. Oh wait that can't possibly happen right? Because you predicted that by the flyers offering more money they would get their guy?

I'm so depressing watching the same people preaching negativity. The only stupid deal was lilja, and it's not that bad.

Can't you just be excited for the up and coming season? No, it's the typical flyers board. It's all doom and gloom. It always is.....
It's pretty bad. I just dont see the reason for him being our #6. One would think one of our stellar D prospects could step up to the big show....

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07-20-2011, 01:21 PM
  #58
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I think he was brought into the 7th role. And they didn't want to waste the spot on a prospect. Bartulis is as good as gone

Why do you think pronger won't be back jester?

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07-20-2011, 01:24 PM
  #59
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hey, all you local Philly members..

whats the latest news (if any) on Zherdev ???

im assuming since theres no news. that hes done here, but is he still in limbo with regards to getting picked up elsewere ???

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07-20-2011, 01:28 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I think he was brought into the 7th role. And they didn't want to waste the spot on a prospect. Bartulis is as good as gone

Why do you think pronger won't be back jester?
He'll be back, just not at 100%. He said himself he's probably going to miss training camp. We all know it takes a little bit of time for him to get going anyway.

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07-20-2011, 01:30 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
What you're failing to understand is that the people that are/were upset about it (not me, really), are saying we could have been the situation where he had no other option.

As FA has shaken out, 3 teams needed goalies: Us, Colorado, and Washington. Washington shouldn't even count because they traded their goalie to Coloardo. So really 2 teams, to fight for 2 goalies (Bryz and Vokoun). Had Colorado signed Bryz, WE would have been the only team Vokoun had left to sign with.

Edit: Just like last year, it's really not all that difficult to predict supply and demand. How many teams need goalies? How many goalies are there? More teams than goalies = They will all be expensive. More goalies than teams = someone will be cheap.
after last year, did people really want to risk getting no goalie out of FA?

I sure didnt want to roll the dice again.

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07-20-2011, 01:34 PM
  #62
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^ exactly. Can you imagine the outrage

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07-20-2011, 01:36 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If that happens, I bet we get to see his Randy Jones trick. You know, the one where he makes a player disappear, yet his cap hit remains.
And we end up in even worse cap hell!

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07-20-2011, 01:39 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Is it really that puzzling outside o lilja? The flyers are a what if team at the moment.

How about looking at things positively.

What if schenn is brilliant
What if voracek breaks out
What if jvr breaks out.
What if pronged returns 100%
what if Talbot and simmonds tear **** up.
What if jagr makes Crosby his *****.

So many what ifs that could go right. We can have a little optimism on this board sometimes.
We went from "win now" mode to "what if, and oh, by the way, your ticket prices are going up 20%" mode. If that's acceptable to you, enjoy. I think it's horrible management.

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07-20-2011, 01:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I think he was brought into the 7th role. And they didn't want to waste the spot on a prospect. Bartulis is as good as gone

Why do you think pronger won't be back jester?
Cuz he's had a wonky knee, broken bones, and now back surgery all in one year. At his age, I do not expect the Pronger of old to return.

I expect him to be effective... But a guy that can be a dominant force for an extended period of time? No. Especially for the minute loads he used to play.


Last edited by Jester: 07-20-2011 at 01:56 PM.
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Old
07-20-2011, 01:53 PM
  #66
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along the same lines but a little more in depth dissection... a nice read by blogger Eric T... whomever he is...


http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...tterfly-effect

"For a team that is so closely pegged against the salary cap and 50-contract limits, every small move has major consequences. Let's take a look at how a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a tornado wiping out the Wells Fargo Center.

To start, the Flyers were under the cap last year and not forced to do anything they didn't want to. What happened then?

They decided they wanted to rent a player for the stretch run
Adding Kris Versteeg forced them to put Ian Laperriere on LTIR and end the season over the cap
Being over the cap forced them to take bonus overage penalties on this year's cap
They decided to demote Sergei Bobrovsky to third string after one bad period
Demoting Bobrovsky to third string resulted in a ridiculous goalie carousel
The ridiculous goalie carousel was embarrassing and caused Snider to make them sign Ilya Bryzgalov
Signing Bryzgalov put them over the cap so much that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards and Versteeg had to be traded away

This chain of events only had two small decisions -- a roster move and a lineup move. Had the Flyers gone without Versteeg, they could have stayed under the cap and acquired Bryzgalov by trading just one of Carter or Richards. The decision to add Versteeg cost them Carter and Richards. And Versteeg. And the first round pick they used to get Versteeg. All because they weren't content with Nikolay Zherdev in their top 9 for a couple of months.

Think about that chain of events triggered by Lappy going on LTIR the next time you're wondering why we're complaining so much about some trifling detail.

Who cares about acquiring Jason Bacashuihua? Well, now the team is at the 50 contract limit and needs Sean Couturier's contract to slide, so he can't make the team no matter how good he looks in camp.
Who cares that Talbot's contract has a cap hit that's perhaps $200k-300k too high? Well, the team is now so close to the cap that they can't afford to have Matt Read on the roster no matter how good he looks in camp.
Who cares that Lilja's tiny contract has a second year? Well, if the top 5 all return next year, it means that Kevin Marshall and Erik Gustafsson can't make it to the NHL this year or next unless the Flyers dump Bartulis, since Lilja's deal is 35+ and will count against the cap no matter what.

These small details shape the franchise in important ways."
--Eric T.

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Old
07-20-2011, 01:55 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Another article that I like by this guy.

He does kind of come off like a pessimist though haha.

http://philly.sbnation.com/philadelp...sts-hate-stats
I thought he raised some good points, but when he says Bryz cannot be much of an upgrade over BOB statistically speaking I just laughed

like all things the same a team with BOB vs a team with Bryz over a 7 game series is going to be equal...hahaha

sure his save % may be similar, but thats because guys feel comfortable with him in net and instead of making every extra effort to block shots, they can focus a bit on scoring. You can't really put a number on that.

i wont fear 3 on 2s NEARLY as much with bryz.
(albeit everything has changed this season, so you cant really compare this year to last year b/c we dont have richie/carter, and we Do have new guys + roo/JvR should improve)

but still, we can take more risks and begin to create offense without every time a odd-man rush comes the other way

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
We went from "win now" mode to "what if, and oh, by the way, your ticket prices are going up 20%" mode. If that's acceptable to you, enjoy. I think it's horrible management.
Yes because being in "win now" mode doesnt depend on a couple what ifs?

We could have all the holes filled and the Cup would never be guaranteed.

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:02 PM
  #69
tuckrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
along the same lines but a little more in depth dissection... a nice read by blogger Eric T... whomever he is...


http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...tterfly-effect

"For a team that is so closely pegged against the salary cap and 50-contract limits, every small move has major consequences. Let's take a look at how a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a tornado wiping out the Wells Fargo Center.

To start, the Flyers were under the cap last year and not forced to do anything they didn't want to. What happened then?

They decided they wanted to rent a player for the stretch run
Adding Kris Versteeg forced them to put Ian Laperriere on LTIR and end the season over the cap
Being over the cap forced them to take bonus overage penalties on this year's cap
They decided to demote Sergei Bobrovsky to third string after one bad period
Demoting Bobrovsky to third string resulted in a ridiculous goalie carousel
The ridiculous goalie carousel was embarrassing and caused Snider to make them sign Ilya Bryzgalov
Signing Bryzgalov put them over the cap so much that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards and Versteeg had to be traded away

This chain of events only had two small decisions -- a roster move and a lineup move. Had the Flyers gone without Versteeg, they could have stayed under the cap and acquired Bryzgalov by trading just one of Carter or Richards. The decision to add Versteeg cost them Carter and Richards. And Versteeg. And the first round pick they used to get Versteeg. All because they weren't content with Nikolay Zherdev in their top 9 for a couple of months.

Think about that chain of events triggered by Lappy going on LTIR the next time you're wondering why we're complaining so much about some trifling detail.

Who cares about acquiring Jason Bacashuihua? Well, now the team is at the 50 contract limit and needs Sean Couturier's contract to slide, so he can't make the team no matter how good he looks in camp.
Who cares that Talbot's contract has a cap hit that's perhaps $200k-300k too high? Well, the team is now so close to the cap that they can't afford to have Matt Read on the roster no matter how good he looks in camp.
Who cares that Lilja's tiny contract has a second year? Well, if the top 5 all return next year, it means that Kevin Marshall and Erik Gustafsson can't make it to the NHL this year or next unless the Flyers dump Bartulis, since Lilja's deal is 35+ and will count against the cap no matter what.

These small details shape the franchise in important ways."
--Eric T.
We wanted to trade richards after the playoffs, Bryz or not. Carter was up in the air, but the return was too good to pass up (and couturier made it an amazing deal...but we will see)

what bugs me is versteeg! If we had traded him for tangradi on the Pens, i would LOVE our team:
jagr-roo-voracek
Hartnell-Briere-Schenn
jvr-couturier-tangradi
Simmonds---

om nom nom nom!

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
along the same lines but a little more in depth dissection... a nice read by blogger Eric T... whomever he is...


http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...tterfly-effect

"For a team that is so closely pegged against the salary cap and 50-contract limits, every small move has major consequences. Let's take a look at how a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a tornado wiping out the Wells Fargo Center.

To start, the Flyers were under the cap last year and not forced to do anything they didn't want to. What happened then?

They decided they wanted to rent a player for the stretch run
Adding Kris Versteeg forced them to put Ian Laperriere on LTIR and end the season over the cap
Being over the cap forced them to take bonus overage penalties on this year's cap
They decided to demote Sergei Bobrovsky to third string after one bad period
Demoting Bobrovsky to third string resulted in a ridiculous goalie carousel
The ridiculous goalie carousel was embarrassing and caused Snider to make them sign Ilya Bryzgalov
Signing Bryzgalov put them over the cap so much that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards and Versteeg had to be traded away

This chain of events only had two small decisions -- a roster move and a lineup move. Had the Flyers gone without Versteeg, they could have stayed under the cap and acquired Bryzgalov by trading just one of Carter or Richards. The decision to add Versteeg cost them Carter and Richards. And Versteeg. And the first round pick they used to get Versteeg. All because they weren't content with Nikolay Zherdev in their top 9 for a couple of months.

Think about that chain of events triggered by Lappy going on LTIR the next time you're wondering why we're complaining so much about some trifling detail.

Who cares about acquiring Jason Bacashuihua? Well, now the team is at the 50 contract limit and needs Sean Couturier's contract to slide, so he can't make the team no matter how good he looks in camp.
Who cares that Talbot's contract has a cap hit that's perhaps $200k-300k too high? Well, the team is now so close to the cap that they can't afford to have Matt Read on the roster no matter how good he looks in camp.
Who cares that Lilja's tiny contract has a second year? Well, if the top 5 all return next year, it means that Kevin Marshall and Erik Gustafsson can't make it to the NHL this year or next unless the Flyers dump Bartulis, since Lilja's deal is 35+ and will count against the cap no matter what.

These small details shape the franchise in important ways."
--Eric T.
Never be afraid to manipulate facts to prove your point. Richards and Carter weren't traded for cap reasons. Once you concede that, the logic of that article falls apart.

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
We wanted to trade richards after the playoffs, Bryz or not. Carter was up in the air, but the return was too good to pass up (and couturier made it an amazing deal...but we will see)

what bugs me is versteeg! If we had traded him for tangradi on the Pens, i would LOVE our team:
jagr-roo-voracek
Hartnell-Briere-Schenn
jvr-couturier-tangradi
Simmonds---

om nom nom nom!
Yeah, wouldn't it be so awesome to have THREE ex-Pens on the team?

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:42 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I think he was brought into the 7th role. And they didn't want to waste the spot on a prospect. Bartulis is as good as gone

Why do you think pronger won't be back jester?
I may be in a minority, but I think Bartulis and Meszaros will the be the 3rd pairing, with Lilja as the #7 and Gus back for another stint as a Phantom.

I don't know much about Lilja, but the pro scouts are pretty good at finding players on other teams they like and they wouldn't have signed him if they didn't think he could help. They need some NHL experience if Pronger is delayed.

I think they didn't want O'Donnell as the full time #6, and knew he wouldn't sign to sit in the box half the season.

Lilja will and I assume they know him well enough to know he will be a good teammate if he isn't in the lineup every night.

I heard the Pronger interview live and he sounded cautiously optimistic.

He said he was on track, has no pain, and was told not to do too much for 12 weeks after the surgery.

Apparently he's due to start more vigorous workouts soon, which will still leave him over a month of harder training/lifting before camp starts.

They asked him about camp and he said he wasn't sure, but the sense I had was he was talking more about taking part in the start of camp, not missing camp altogether.

We'll have to see.

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:49 PM
  #73
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Far too often people lump people into being an optimist or a pessimist. You guys do realize that more than likely it is NOT an all or nothing sort of thing.

For example, I am truly, very, excited about this season. It should be a lot of fun. That doesn't mean I can't look at things at a micro level and say "I didn't like this..." or "I didn't like that...".

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Old
07-20-2011, 03:55 PM
  #74
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Yes because being in "win now" mode doesnt depend on a couple what ifs?

We could have all the holes filled and the Cup would never be guaranteed.
He, a card carrying optimist (for now, usually he's extremely negative) listed SIX what ifs. A couple is normal, six is insane.

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07-20-2011, 04:03 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Far too often people lump people into being an optimist or a pessimist. You guys do realize that more than likely it is NOT an all or nothing sort of thing.

For example, I am truly, very, excited about this season. It should be a lot of fun. That doesn't mean I can't look at things at a micro level and say "I didn't like this..." or "I didn't like that...".
better watch yourself, we dont take kindly to you reasonable types...


good point, i agree and would even push it a step further saying:

The optimism vs pessimism argument is all the more prevalent this year because we now have so many young guys who could either surprise or disappoint this year...

but just being excited to see if these guys pan out or break out doesnt make you an optimist, it makes you a FLYERS FAN!!

how can this not be an exciting year for us fans?

and of course there will be some of both in all of us

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