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MLD 2011 Draft Thread I

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Old
07-20-2011, 03:46 PM
  #751
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Hockey reference adjusted points?? Wow
Not reading "rough guide" despite the words being there quite clearly?

Double wow.

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07-20-2011, 03:50 PM
  #752
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With picks 140 and 141, the Brandon Shamrocks select:

Hal Winkler, G: Winkler spent five seasons in the best senior league before the WCHL opened shop in 1921. He then spend five season with Edmonton and Calgary, leading the league in GAA in 1921/22 and being named First Team All-Star in 1923. He played in the NHL for two seasons, and finished his career with three seasons in the minors. In 1927/28, he led the AHA in GAA with a mark of 0.98, which was 36% better than the #2 figure, which was also recorded by an ex-WCHL player.

We have save percentage data for two of his seasons. In 1917/18 in the MHL, he recorded a mark which was 100 points better than the second-best, recorded by another goalie who would also play int he WCHL. In 1927/28, he was fourth in the NHL in save percentage, trailing only three Hall of Famers.

Winkler will be the backup goalie to Tom Paton, allowing days off to the starter with no worries a subpar man will cost the team games between the pipes.

Jimmy Herbert, C/RW: Herbert had a brief but bright peak in the NHL. He led the expansion Boston Bruins with 24 points in 1924/25, which was ninth in the NHL. Notably, the team scored only 49 goals that year, meaning Herbert had a hand in 49% of his team's goals; the Bruins' second-highest scorer had 8 points.

The following year he teamed full-time with Carson Cooper to form the deadliest scoring duo in the NHL. They both tied for third in the NHL points race, behind only Nels Stewart and Cy Denneny.

He faded a bit after that, but did not disappear: he tied for 11th in scoring in 1926/27, for 16th in 1927/28 and 23rd in 1928/29. He was a very hard-nosed player with a temper, a fact often overlooked because he played with men such as Eddie Shore, Sprague Cleghornn and Lionel Hitchman, who could make most anyone seem a *****cat.

I expect he'll centre the third or fourth line, providing some snarl and some goals. But he may also wind up on the wing.

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07-20-2011, 03:52 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
It's two distinct careers. One as a player and one as a coach.
Not always, especially when dealing with older players who were actually player-coaches.

Beyond that, you could say the same thing about Red Kelly in Detroit and in Toronto. He filled very different roles on those teams.

The sticking point for me, I guess, is that coaches have to be drafted in the same draft as everyone else, but different rules apply to them.

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Old
07-20-2011, 03:54 PM
  #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Not reading "rough guide" despite the words being there quite clearly?

Double wow.
I guess "rough guide" means "completely useless stat."

Anyways, nice pick with Herberts he was near the top of our list.

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07-20-2011, 03:59 PM
  #755
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
I guess "rough guide" means "completely useless stat."
Less useful than adding up point totals over arbitrary 10-year periods?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Anyways, nice pick with Herberts he was near the top of our list.
Let's just hope I can keep his temper under control!

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:03 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Less useful than adding up point totals over arbitrary 10-year periods?
Arbitrary? Both their careers fell within the full span of a decade? It clearly shows how they placed amongst their peers.

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07-20-2011, 04:37 PM
  #757
Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Arbitrary? Both their careers fell within the full span of a decade? It clearly shows how they placed amongst their peers.
Only their peers who also happen to have an approx. 10-year career over the very same time span. More often you're comparing them to half or two-thirds of someone else's career, either the beginning or the end.

It also ignores context, which adjusted scoring at least attempts to consider.

I'd probably rank Bullard ahead offensively, but no so far ahead that they're no longer in the same class.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:42 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Why not? What other europeans would have been a factor?
In the 1980s? Look at any already-drafted forward who was not in the nhl; I assume that the gm who drafted him saw him as a better offensive option than Bullard. The big 4 soviets come to mind immediately, but there are at least a few more.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:49 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
With picks 140 and 141, the Brandon Shamrocks select:

Hal Winkler, G: Winkler spent five seasons in the best senior league before the WCHL opened shop in 1921. He then spend five season with Edmonton and Calgary, leading the league in GAA in 1921/22 and being named First Team All-Star in 1923. He played in the NHL for two seasons, and finished his career with three seasons in the minors. In 1927/28, he led the AHA in GAA with a mark of 0.98, which was 36% better than the #2 figure, which was also recorded by an ex-WCHL player.

We have save percentage data for two of his seasons. In 1917/18 in the MHL, he recorded a mark which was 100 points better than the second-best, recorded by another goalie who would also play int he WCHL. In 1927/28, he was fourth in the NHL in save percentage, trailing only three Hall of Famers.

Winkler will be the backup goalie to Tom Paton, allowing days off to the starter with no worries a subpar man will cost the team games between the pipes.

Jimmy Herbert, C/RW: Herbert had a brief but bright peak in the NHL. He led the expansion Boston Bruins with 24 points in 1924/25, which was ninth in the NHL. Notably, the team scored only 49 goals that year, meaning Herbert had a hand in 49% of his team's goals; the Bruins' second-highest scorer had 8 points.

The following year he teamed full-time with Carson Cooper to form the deadliest scoring duo in the NHL. They both tied for third in the NHL points race, behind only Nels Stewart and Cy Denneny.

He faded a bit after that, but did not disappear: he tied for 11th in scoring in 1926/27, for 16th in 1927/28 and 23rd in 1928/29. He was a very hard-nosed player with a temper, a fact often overlooked because he played with men such as Eddie Shore, Sprague Cleghornn and Lionel Hitchman, who could make most anyone seem a *****cat.

I expect he'll centre the third or fourth line, providing some snarl and some goals. But he may also wind up on the wing.
Winkler was in the same boat as holmqvist for me - wanted to snag him late as a backup and actually thought I could.

Herberts was right there with Gracie in the pre-expansion centers I was checking out. A really nice point for him is that he was 7th in hart voting twice in 1925 and 1926. I wouldn't say he really faded in 1927 either; it was just the first post-merger year and the influx of western talent knocked what I assume was more or less the same player down a few pegs.

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:05 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Winkler was in the same boat as holmqvist for me - wanted to snag him late as a backup and actually thought I could.
Winkler's been the backup plan since pick #1, thought it was time to grab him while the grabbing was good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Herberts was right there with Gracie in the pre-expansion centers I was checking out. A really nice point for him is that he was 7th in hart voting twice in 1925 and 1926. I wouldn't say he really faded in 1927 either; it was just the first post-merger year and the influx of western talent knocked what I assume was more or less the same player down a few pegs.
That's probably fair to say. Of the 10 players ahead of him in 1926/26, five did play in the WHL the season before. I guess I was underselling him a bit then.

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:35 PM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
In the 1980s? Look at any already-drafted forward who was not in the nhl; I assume that the gm who drafted him saw him as a better offensive option than Bullard. The big 4 soviets come to mind immediately, but there are at least a few more.
Again you are obviously wrong. You just can't look at every forward who was already drafted and say they were better offensively. First of all centre is a lot deeper of a position so Bullard lasted longer secondly gm's try to fill other needs as well other then strictly offense.

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:46 PM
  #762
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With pick 142, Eden Hall selects

Garth Butcher, D



Quote:
Originally Posted by legendsofhockey
A scrappy defenceman and solid team leader, Garth Butcher played nearly 900 NHL games in the 1980s and '90s. Although his scoring statistics were formidable in junior, he focused on looking after his own end and making opposition forwards pay the price in the NHL.
- Played in the 1993 All Star game, despite only scoring 15 points that season (211 PIMs though)

- Brett Hull selected a "St. Louis Blues Dream Team" in honor of his HHOF induction. His seven defensemen: Scott Stevens, Garth Butcher, Steve Duchesne, Al MacInnis, Phil Housley, Jeff Brown, Chris Pronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Louis Post Dispatch, 1991
He (Snepsts) noted that the Blues, especially Butcher, kept banging Probert In the playoffs until the guy began taking unwise penalties. "Butch is something else," Snepsts said. "When we were in Vancouver that one year, he threw the whole Calgary playoffs out of whack. He was yapping at their whole bench, and he drove (coach] XXX nuts. They were running out of their positions, trying to get Garth."
...
he is more agitator than fighter.
...
"You can do as much physical and mental damage just by hitting them with body checks as by fighting them," Butcher said.
Full profile will be in the bio section eventually.

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Old
07-20-2011, 06:28 PM
  #763
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On Saturday when I picked Brad Marsh I debated picking another guy but I went with Marsh because of his defensive abilities and the fact that I could count on him for leadership. I picked Marsh with the thought that this guy might not be around when I went to pick again, boy was I wrong.

Without further adieu with my 11th selection, 143rd overall in the 2011 MLD, Garnish selects defenseman Arnie Brown.

Brown was a stay at home defenseman during his NHL career and I'll have him in that role on the Dragons.

More on Brown can be found at the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12113

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Old
07-20-2011, 06:39 PM
  #764
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With pick #144 the Pittsburgh Hornets select Wayne Babych, RW.



- 5'11, 191 lbs
- 438 points in 519 games
- 16 points in 41 playoff games
- career adjusted 0.54 ESPPG
- NHL ESG leader (1981) - was 6th in total goals and 15th in points
- 4 20+ goal seasons

Chosen 3rd overall in the 1978 Amateur Draft, the St. Louis Blues had big plans for the right winger, and he responded with 27 goals in his rookie year of 1978-79. Babych followed that up with a 26-goal outing the next year before exploding for 54 goals and 96 points in 1980-81. 438 points in 519 NHL games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord bio
scouting reports:

"was leading candidate for calder before injury... strong-skating... personable and amusing"

"hard nosed player, has trouble staying injury-free... "

"gifted natural athlete...fast skater with excellent shot..."

"big, strong, excellent skater, awesome shot, combative nature"

"has settled into niche as a two-way worker... has all the equipment to be a top star... "

"lost a lot of his speed, but was one of the game's best forecheckers... good at working the boards and will hit or be hit to make a play... good upper body strength, can hold his own in the corners... "
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshockeylegends
Wayne Babych was on the verge of becoming the dominant power forward of his generation. Then disaster struck.

At 5'11" and 190lbs, he was quite a bit smaller than his brother, but his upper body strength was second to none. He could dominate the boards and corners and he hit like a truck.

Babych would score 26 goals, 36 assists and 63 points, all then-rookie records for the franchise. He was a finalist in rookie of the year voting that saw the Calder Trophy go to Smith of the Minnesota North Stars. After a 59 game sophomore season where he scored 26 goals and 61 points, Babych benefited more than most with the resulting coaching change. The following season... Babych erupted for a 54 goal-96 point season, though he could only muster 2 playoff tallies in 11 games.

Babych was as big of a star in St. Louis as any athlete let alone hockey player. He would sign a 4 year contract worth over $400,000 with a $125,000 signing bonus, huge dollars for 1981.

That would be the apex of Babych's career. He could have been the best power winger of the 1980s. He could skate, shoot, score, hit and fight. He was a highly underrated fighter who was not afraid of the odd dust-up no matter who his opponent was.

In a pre-season game Babych dropped the gloves with one of the biggest, baddest goons of the day. Just as Babych was about to throw a punch, the linesman intervened, grabbing his arm. Babych's rotator cuff was severely ripped.

Doctors tried a lengthy rehabilitation process followed by surgery to take the rotator cuff apart and rebuild it. They were never able to properly fix it, but Babych tried to play on, despite the pain.

But he was never the same. He even worsened the injury due to more fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Windsor Star Oct. 31, 1978
This guy back-checks and everything. He's built like granite, says Plager... He's a heckuva hockey player.
Quote:
Scouting report:
A tremendous skater, he's equipped with a strong shot and quick release. He's a consistent scorer who can put the puck in the net from any angle. Overpowers goalies with strong shot.


Last edited by Selfish Man: 07-20-2011 at 09:13 PM.
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Old
07-20-2011, 10:06 PM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selfish Man View Post
With pick #144 the Pittsburgh Hornets select Wayne Babych, RW.

Great pick, don't know why I ever thought of Babych.

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Old
07-20-2011, 10:35 PM
  #766
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The Sleepwatchers are proud to select LW Murray Craven to play along side Bullard on our 3rd line. Craven is a great Pk'r and playmaker, bio to come.

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07-20-2011, 10:41 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Yeah I kind of questioned this in the ATD as well.

I think even if you layout the game plan and lines.. the coach still has to execute it.

I do think that the ice time estimates and that sort of thing in the ATD was getting a little obsessive hahaha
I agree. Game plans are fun and show other GMs that you have selected a balanced roster in which all the roles are filled. But you also need a good coach who can implement a plan, bring his own ideas, and adjust when necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Presumably the world in which Bullard did his thing in the 80s while Reichel was in the 90s?

Using adjusted points as a rough guide, Reichel had four 70+ points seasons while Bullard had two. And Reichel's best was only two points behind Bullard's as well. Their career numbers are very close as well.
Reichel centred Theo Fleury and Ziggy Palffy during his peak seasons, meaning he was at best the second best player on his line. Certainly an easier situation to score points in than Bullard was in Pittsburgh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I would rather be 44th in the 90s than 35th in the 80s, based on what happened to the talent pool following the European invasion.
Don't forget the Americans. While it wasn't an American "invasion", the American presence increased steadily from the 1980s to the 1990s.

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07-20-2011, 10:59 PM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
The Sleepwatchers are proud to select LW Murray Craven to play along side Bullard on our 3rd line. Craven is a great Pk'r and playmaker, bio to come.
He's a very good winger to have for Bullard. When we had Bullard in the AAA draft, he was near the top of the list of guys I wanted as wingers for him.

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07-20-2011, 11:26 PM
  #769
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There's one very valid reason why drafting a player who was a coach doesn't automatically give you both guys - you would effectively have made 2 picks with one selection.. if you do that, which pick gets dropped? The value of coaches varies heavily from one guy to the next.

Also, the ATD is about appreciating the full careers of players. This goes for multi-positional guys. Guys like Reg Noble and Syd Howe have huge value due to their ability to play multiple positions, and that should be recognized. As for coaches.. just think of the player version and coach version as two distinct careers.

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07-21-2011, 12:08 AM
  #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
I am getting annoyed. How do I do the hyper link so I can just click on my guys name in my roster and it only shows the single post. It keeps going back to the start of the MLD Bios page.
This is the basic format here:
name of player




Just respond this message, and you can see exactly what I wrote to make that happen. All you do is replace link to thread with a real link. (Leave the quotes around the link.). Also, replace name of player with the player's name.

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07-21-2011, 12:15 AM
  #771
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With the 146th pick, The Warroad Lakers select LW Aleksander Skvortsov


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07-21-2011, 12:59 AM
  #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
This is the basic format here:
name of player




Just respond this message, and you can see exactly what I wrote to make that happen. All you do is replace link to thread with a real link. (Leave the quotes around the link.). Also, replace name of player with the player's name.
To get a single post, click on the "post number" on the upper right corner of your post. I'll pop out in an extra window by itself. Copy the address from that new window and use it as your hyperlink. It'll look like this.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=34928123&postcount=7

OR, you can just use this link and change the number after "postcount" to reflect the "post number" from your new bio post before hyperlinking.

Jimmy Gardner, LW

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07-21-2011, 01:22 AM
  #773
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Again you are obviously wrong. You just can't look at every forward who was already drafted and say they were better offensively. First of all centre is a lot deeper of a position so Bullard lasted longer secondly gm's try to fill other needs as well other then strictly offense.
You are right about the centers so some european 80s wingers selected to this point might not have produced at a Ballard level. I certainly wasn't thinking about guys like that, though, when I hinted at there being close to 10 guys. Still, if we are talking about forwards from hundreds of picks ago, yeah, they are better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
With pick 142, Eden Hall selects

Garth Butcher, D





- Played in the 1993 All Star game, despite only scoring 15 points that season (211 PIMs though)

- Brett Hull selected a "St. Louis Blues Dream Team" in honor of his HHOF induction. His seven defensemen: Scott Stevens, Garth Butcher, Steve Duchesne, Al MacInnis, Phil Housley, Jeff Brown, Chris Pronger.



Full profile will be in the bio section eventually.
I'm really surprised at this pick. It's not that I don't appreciate what Butcher brings but there are at least three guys who I think would have been better for you, and you can still get them 100 picks from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
On Saturday when I picked Brad Marsh I debated picking another guy but I went with Marsh because of his defensive abilities and the fact that I could count on him for leadership. I picked Marsh with the thought that this guy might not be around when I went to pick again, boy was I wrong.

Without further adieu with my 11th selection, 143rd overall in the 2011 MLD, Garnish selects defenseman Arnie Brown.

Brown was a stay at home defenseman during his NHL career and I'll have him in that role on the Dragons.

More on Brown can be found at the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12113
very good pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
The Sleepwatchers are proud to select LW Murray Craven to play along side Bullard on our 3rd line. Craven is a great Pk'r and playmaker, bio to come.
You couldn't have possibly selected a better winger for Bullard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Reichel centred Theo Fleury and Ziggy Palffy during his peak seasons, meaning he was at best the second best player on his line. Certainly an easier situation to score points in than Bullard was in Pittsburgh.
Yes and no. There's the whole "best scorer on a poor team" phenomenon. Bullard got 14.77 ESmin/GP his last three years with the terrible Pens, and 4.34 PPmin/GP. Those numbers went down to 13.23 and 2.93 when playing for playoff teams the following three years.

I'm definitely not concluding anyone had it easier (which is really nice of me considering Bullard likely had a lot of those PP minutes with Lemieux), but I certainly wouldn't just look at Fleury and Palffy and call this a slam dunk.

and mark, I never made any conclusions as to who was better offensively (although Reichel has a pretty good defensive edge), I only said they were in the same league, I'm surprised your feathers took such a ruffling from that.

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07-21-2011, 02:31 AM
  #774
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Red Wings select Frantisek Kaberle sr.,D (147th pick)

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07-21-2011, 03:11 AM
  #775
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Nick Libett vs. Jan Erixon

As I mentioned earlier, we have a limited number of ways to get a read on the defensive abilities of these players. Let's see where each of them leads us:

Quote:
- seeing them ourselves (depends on our age and how throughly we've watched them, for most of us, this covers players from 1990-on)
I have just two games on hand that feature Libett and none of Erixon, so this really tells us nothing. I don't see anyone else jumping in saying they saw both guys, so in this case the eye test tells us nothing.

Quote:
- selke records which demonstrate how the player was perceived in his time (1977-present)
This one we've talked about already. Erixon finished 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th in Selke voting. The trophy only existed for the last four years of Libett's career and in the second of those years, he finished 7th in voting.

If Libett's career was like most players, and the selke existed for its entirety, he'd have no hope of getting any votes in his first two full seasons while he built a reputation, or in 1971, 1974, 1975, and 1977, when his +/- rating was just too poor. For him to get consideration at -25 to -41 would have made him a massive outlier. I am not commenting at this time, on the validity of +/- or his contributions to those ratings, merely trying to get a sense for what chance at votes he would have had.

This leaves 1972, 1973, and 1976 as the years where he could have possibly earned consideration. I don't doubt that he'd have received some votes, but any high placement is really a stretch, with the likes of Gainey, Jarvis, Ramsay, Luce, Westfall, Ellis, Nevin, Sheppard, Clarke, Barber, Marcotte and Tkaczuk all going strong. A consistent top-10 placement like Erixon saw, is really tough to imagine.

An interesting note about Erixon: as you will see in the pages of the books I'm scanning, he was VERY highly regarded defensively, more than I was even aware. He earned significant selke votes in 89, 90, and 91, when he played just 44-58 games. This is almost unprecedented in Selke voting; the wording below indicates that there was almost surely a Selke in the cards for him if he could just play a full season.

Quote:
- quotes from players, executives, newspapers (can be from anytime in history)
I would have to scan my entire library for both players and I don't have the energy to do that for the MLD, I will refer to the scouting reports - which is great because they carry with them far less bias than teammates and coaches often do.

Quote:
- numerical analysis using GF/GA/PK figures (1967-present but some limited stuff can be done from before that as well, such as checking team PK stats, team defensive results, player PK scoring indicating defensive usage, results of scoring line players who faced said defensive player, etc)
Before I do that, let's first acknowledge that Libett was a better offensive player than Erixon and try to understand to what degree he was; that way we can identify how good Erixon has to be defensively to make up for it.

Career adjusted ESPPG is the stat I am going to use. Libett got some PP time and Erixon had none. Both are checking line players who won't be on the PP here.

Libett: 0.40. Erixon 0.33. This puts Libett 21% ahead. However, Erixon played 12.04 ESmin/GP and Libett played 13.83, which is about 15% more. With 15% more minutes he should be expected to contribute 15% more offense. He tops that by 6%.

But, Libett did receive more offensive opportunities by having better linemates on second lines. An important consideration is how much each player had to do with the offense that took place while they were on the ice.

Libett: 65%. Erixon: 55%. That is an 18% edge for Libett.

Either way you slice it, Libett was a better offensive player at even strength. The gap is probably in the 12% range.

Now, onto defense. Let's see what we can uncover:

PK usage/efficiency: Erixon killed 38% of penalties for his teams, and they were 3% better than the league average. (the latter number is almost certainly skewed by the fact that they were better with Erixon and worse in the 30% of the games that he missed) Libett killed 26%, contributing to PKs 2% worse than the league average.

Adjusted ESGA/GP: Libett was on the ice for 0.82 adjusted ESG/GP. Erixon, just 0.59. That means Libett allowed goals against 39% more often. But, he was also on the ice 15% more often so the first 15% is explained, leaving the other 24% unexplained. Erixon's teams were about 11% better at even strength when he and Libett were off the ice, so this leaves about 13% unaccounted for.

Adjusted +/-. This one is interesting because we're trying to understand which player contributed more defensively, but also their overall contribution to team goal differential. Both were checking players at even strength, assigned to the other team's best players. Libett, despite being a pretty good offensive player, saw his team's GF/GA ratio go from 0.87 to 0.77 when he was on the ice. Erixon, despite meager offensive contributions, saw his team's GF/GA ratio go from 0.97 to 1.04 when he was on the ice. Despite both having the same role and one being better offensively, their respective career adjusted +/- ratings are +19 and -113.


Quote:
- coach and players polls from the newspaper ranking the best in the league in certain categories (1971-1994, to my knowledge)
In the HOH thread "player intangibles - resource" a number of polls are linked to. There are a total of five from within the span of Libett's career. He doesn't get mentioned in any of them under best defensive forward, best checker, best penalty killer, hardest worker, etc. Doesn't mean he was crap, but it indicates he was not regarded as top-3 at any time at anything.

There's also an NHL correspondents' poll in the 1975 World Almanac Guide to Pro Hockey. Libett does not show up in any of the polls, which generally show about the top-7-8 in a number of categories including the ones mentioned above.

These polls do not exist during Erixon's career. There is one from 1993 but he was at the end of the line at that time.

Quote:
- "scouting report" guides like Zander Hollander's/Hockey Scouting Report/McKeen's/Forecaster (1972-present)
It would take me far too long to type out the stuff from the guides right now, so I'm just going to provide jpegs of the pages. Suffice it to say, there are plenty more superlatives hurled Erixon's way than Libett's, it's not even really close. I left out the 1973, 1974, and 1981 guides as they either don't mention Libett at all or don't say anything about his defense or physicality, just offense (which kind of eliminate '74 and '75 as likely years for him to get selke votes). This way I can prevent markrander from accusing me of doctoring this up, which, considering the strength of language used regarding Erixon, he'd almost certainly have done in the absence of photographic evidence:

















so, was Jan Erixon at least 12% better than Nick Libbet defensively? YES, yes he was. It's not even really close. If Erixon had more offensive skill he would be an ATD 3rd line winger, and maybe should be one anyway based on defensive skill alone.

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