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The Little Things Fail to Add Up For Flyers Offseason

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:14 PM
  #76
ilovetheflyers8
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Vokoun signing a modest to cheap deal was easily predictable. In fact, I and others predicted it here months ago.
This is true, and what I wanted to happen, but you can argue from the Flyers point of view they didn't know if Vokoun wanted to come to the Flyers or if he might even re-sign with Florida which, he was reportedly open to. I guess that argument is made a bit weaker by the fact that it is known that teams do actually talk to players prior to them becoming ufas. There was probably the fear that if they don't go for Bryz's rights and try to sign him before free agency then Vokoun might sign with Florida, and Bryz could have been snatched up by some other team. I feel like you have offered a similar explanation for the Flyer's actions in the past. Sure they could have waited, but if it all blew up in their faces, all the fans here would be just as pissed.

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07-20-2011, 04:24 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
This is true, and what I wanted to happen, but you can argue from the Flyers point of view they didn't know if Vokoun wanted to come to the Flyers or if he might even re-sign with Florida which, he was reportedly open to. I guess that argument is made a bit weaker by the fact that it is known that teams do actually talk to players prior to them becoming ufas. There was probably the fear that if they don't go for Bryz's rights and try to sign him before free agency then Vokoun might sign with Florida, and Bryz could have been snatched up by some other team. I feel like you have offered a similar explanation for the Flyer's actions in the past. Sure they could have waited, but if it all blew up in their faces, all the fans here would be just as pissed.
The best scenario would have been for Snider to say NOTHING, and that would have kept both Bryz and Vokoun unsure of which of the two Holmgren was going after. You don't tell the world what your plan is because that's not how good negotiations work.

I think the other problem a lot of us have is that it's the second year in a row that this type of thing has happened, the first being with MFL getting a contract he totally didn't deserve.

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07-20-2011, 04:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The best scenario would have been for Snider to say NOTHING, and that would have kept both Bryz and Vokoun unsure of which of the two Holmgren was going after. You don't tell the world what your plan is because that's not how good negotiations work.

I think the other problem a lot of us have is that it's the second year in a row that this type of thing has happened, the first being with MFL getting a contract he totally didn't deserve.
Yeah, I understand the problem with it being the second year in a row this has happened, in fact I'm pretty sure what I said above is what Jester or someone said in a past post about the Leighton signing. On the other hand unlike last year we know that the team has a good goalie (Bob was very good for a rookie, but we didn't know how he would be going in), though Bryzgalov might not have the most favorable contract.

I also agree that Snider announcing the team was going after a goalie might not have been the best move, but for the sake of argument, just because fans don't hear about something doesn't mean agents and players don't.

On a different note having 50 contracts isn't a humongous problem, send a player like Bacashihua, Kalinski who will likely not play in the NHL again while in the Flyers organization, Lehtivuori who had issues playing in Adirondack last year (though another team might not want him, especially if he returns to Europe), or Marc-Andre Bourdon who is likely behind at least 3 and maybe 4 or 5 other defensemen on the depth chart (Bartulis, Gustafsson, Marshall, Walker, and Lilija) to another team for future considerations and if necessary include a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick. Or an alternative is, if the team wants to make a trade, try to find a team willing to take an extra contract back. Of course the downside to that is the player, we send back might have to be a decent one.

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07-20-2011, 04:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Here come the armchair gm's proclaiming that they knew how the Market was going to run and how the flyer could have improved their team significantly more.
Best to get used to it or immune to it, I think - this is the way it's going to be All. Season. Long. - an eight month ax grinding orgy that will be painful to the eyes and boggling to the mind.

I have to hand props to the author at SBNation, though - over 1,100 words of meaningless warbling yet still those banners ads get seen.

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07-20-2011, 04:55 PM
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i don't understand people applauding this article as brilliant. It is one big ***** fest which is the norm each time I read these articles. Maybe people enjoyed it beause it stated how they feel about the Flyers off season moves. My problem is it doesn't say or suggest why the moves were made and overstates probems the Flyers will have being at 50 contracts. Obviuosly the writer is very knowledgeable of the players that have contracts that can pass through but chooses to insinuate that the Flyers are in some deep do-do.

If Bob isn't moved then Backlund will probably be allowed to go home and play.

Enough with the Erickson stuff already. The Flyers cut him loose because they didn;t think he would take the next step and every other team had the chance to jump on him and didn't so maybe he isn't so great.

I appreciate writers not writing through rose colored glasses but when there is nothing other then *****ing about the moves with no in-sight then it is no different then coming on to this site and I don't mean that as a slight.

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07-20-2011, 04:57 PM
  #81
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Bryz was getting paid big bucks by whoever signed him. It wasnt just us that was offering him that kind of money.

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07-20-2011, 04:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Bryz was getting paid big bucks by whoever signed him. It wasnt just us that was offering him that kind of money.
I think the question is would Vokoun have?

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07-20-2011, 05:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Bryz was getting paid big bucks by whoever signed him. It wasnt just us that was offering him that kind of money.


Exactly. It's not like the NHL was his only option. I love the fact that Snider made it known that Ilya was the guy we wanted. I want him to know that this team wasn't just lowballing to fill a hole, but trying to get a Franchise goalie. The best goalie available and possibly the best we've had here. Vokoun can enjoy his consolation prize and hope washington will find him a billet this year so he can save some of that big contract.

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07-20-2011, 05:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Exactly. It's not like the NHL was his only option. I love the fact that Snider made it known that Ilya was the guy we wanted. I want him to know that this team wasn't just lowballing to fill a hole, but trying to get a Franchise goalie. The best goalie available and possibly the best we've had here. Vokoun can enjoy his consolation prize and hope washington will find him a billet this year so he can save some of that big contract.
Bernie Parent?

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
I think the question is would Vokoun have?
supply and demand

Bryz was the top goalie available and there were only a few places that needed a legit #1. He signed, and another team that needed a #1 made a move, basically resulting in Vokoun not having many options available for him if he wanted to be a #1. There was no competition to sign him, so WSH lucked out and got him cheap bc no one else drove up his price

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07-20-2011, 05:12 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Bernie Parent?


Did you even read what you bolded? Why is it not possible that Ilya could be better than Bernie? This is not a knock on Bernie either. Do you honestly think that it's not possible that Bryz could end up as highly regarded by the end of his career here?

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07-20-2011, 05:18 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Did you even read what you bolded? Why is it not possible that Ilya could be better than Bernie? This is not a knock on Bernie either. Do you honestly think that it's not possible that Bryz could end up as highly regarded by the end of his career here?
We'll see. Do you think he can put up back-to-back Vezina and Conn Smythes?

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07-20-2011, 05:22 PM
  #88
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Bernie Parent?
Beef Invictus?

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07-20-2011, 05:22 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Did you even read what you bolded? Why is it not possible that Ilya could be better than Bernie? This is not a knock on Bernie either. Do you honestly think that it's not possible that Bryz could end up as highly regarded by the end of his career here?
There is only one way that Bryzgalov would come even close to being mentioned in the same breath as Bernie Parent. And that's by backstopping the team to a Cup win.

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07-20-2011, 05:23 PM
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Beef Invictus?
Good, the public paging system still works

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07-20-2011, 05:32 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The best scenario would have been for Snider to say NOTHING, and that would have kept both Bryz and Vokoun unsure of which of the two Holmgren was going after. You don't tell the world what your plan is because that's not how good negotiations work.

I think the other problem a lot of us have is that it's the second year in a row that this type of thing has happened, the first being with MFL getting a contract he totally didn't deserve.
Of course, Snider staying out of things would have been a much sharper business move. This year versus last year, IMHO, is far from comparable in that Paul Holmgren signed a quality goaltender, whereas last off-season was a complete exercise in mess-uppery. As much as he overpaid for Bryzgalov, Holmgren did land the #1 targetted FA at a position for which the team has been in desperate need.

Snider could, of course, also have gone C. Mongomery Burns:

Bryz: (stepping into Snider's personal jet): "... wish to thank you, Mr. Snider, for your generous ... what the hell?"

Snider: "Mr. Bryzgalov, I believe you know Mr. Vokoun. We will do away with idle chit-chat. This plane will take off at my command with the two of you on board, and circle Philadelphia for exactly one hour. You will find an assortment of weapons stashed around the cabin, so feel free to make use of them. When this plane lands, I will be waiting with an unsigned 5-year contract for $3 million per year. Whoever remains alive will have the pleasure of signing it.

"Good luck to you both." (slams door)


Incidentally, MsWoof, I love your new avatar. I have one request: every first post in a thread should be started with:

OH YEAH!!!!!

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07-20-2011, 05:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Good, the public paging system still works
"If this had been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed where to tune in your area for news and official information. This concludes this test of the Emergency Broadcast System."

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07-20-2011, 05:39 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
There is only one way that Bryzgalov would come even close to being mentioned in the same breath as Bernie Parent. And that's by backstopping the team to a Cup win.
Exactly. That's where the bar is set. Ron Hextall won the Conn Smythe in carrying the Flyers to game 7 against the Oilers, but fell short of being on the same level as BP.

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07-20-2011, 05:56 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We'll see. Do you think he can put up back-to-back Vezina and Conn Smythes?


Sure, why not?

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07-20-2011, 07:04 PM
  #95
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The Flyers said they wanted a number one goalie. They have always aggressively pursued the pieces they felt they needed. In Bryz the flyers now have their goalie of at least the next five years. In Vokoun, Wash. has their 2011-12 starter.
If we were using players as comparison, it would be the difference between acquiring a franchise no. 1 C (ex. Brad Richards) for 9 years, or a very good player like St. Louis for one year. Yeah St. Louis at a bargain for one year is a nice luxury, but that franchise player is far more important.

Maybe a crazy comparison, but I think it's another way to look at it.

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07-20-2011, 08:43 PM
  #96
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So the Flyers have 50 contracts which will be 49 when Laperierre goes to LTIR and 48 when Backlund goes to Europe and 47 when Leighton is given away or something, right? This Baci-whatever guy can start for the Phantoms with who-gives-a-rats-ass as his backup right? I admit I don't fully understand how these contracts work.

I think Homer is going to trade Bobrovsky for a veteran backup who doesn't blow like Boucher plus a forward. Or maybe he'll trade Bobrovsky for something completely retarded.

Lilja is just a dumb move. No idea how to defend that one.

I just don't understand how Homer consistently does such good and horrible things all within the same week.

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07-20-2011, 08:44 PM
  #97
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St. Louis is a better player than brad Richards IMO.

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07-20-2011, 09:08 PM
  #98
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St. Louis is a better player than brad Richards IMO.
He absolutely is.

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07-20-2011, 09:10 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
So the Flyers have 50 contracts which will be 49 when Laperierre goes to LTIR and 48 when Backlund goes to Europe and 47 when Leighton is given away or something, right? This Baci-whatever guy can start for the Phantoms with who-gives-a-rats-ass as his backup right? I admit I don't fully understand how these contracts work.

I think Homer is going to trade Bobrovsky for a veteran backup who doesn't blow like Boucher plus a forward. Or maybe he'll trade Bobrovsky for something completely retarded.

Lilja is just a dumb move. No idea how to defend that one.

I just don't understand how Homer consistently does such good and horrible things all within the same week.
Placing a player on LTIR doesn't gain you a contract spot.

Boucher doesn't blow.

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Old
07-20-2011, 09:11 PM
  #100
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Vokoun signing a modest to cheap deal was easily predictable. In fact, I and others predicted it here months ago.
Link?

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