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Salary Arbitration (Callahan on July 28, Dubinsky signs before hearing)

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07-21-2011, 11:25 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Bahahahahahaha.

I KNEW that as soon as I put the time into doing that analysis above, Dubi was going to sign for multiple years.

Having said that, it doesn't change the fact that it only leaves $6.4MM to sign Cally, Eminger and bring in Erixon at $1.75MM... Something's got to give.



I would tend to agree with you, RB (although I would suggest that you should then trade him for a pick/prospect rather than demote him), and such a move would definitely clear the necessary space. The only problem is - who plays the right side on the third line? If it's Thomas, you need to add back $1MM, which takes you back over the cap (or too close to it to operate). Avery? Christensen? I'm not certain that I - or Torts - would be happy with either option...
Erixon doesn't really become a concern until opening night, when Zuccarello, Wolski or Christensen can be demoted anyway.

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07-21-2011, 11:27 AM
  #877
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Thanks, yeah, kind of annoying IMHO....

Didnt the term start being used after the Kovalchuk debacle and the lead outlining the new procedure for calculating the cap hit for certain types of contracts? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that was around the time frame that I started hearing it.
That's probably right. All I know is that I never saw the term used--never--until the last year or so. And now, everyone's all, "What's the AAV brah?"

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07-21-2011, 11:30 AM
  #878
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should not take long now. So what are we thinking more or less? Same amount of yrs?

I would hope same number tops . Should be interesting but regardless they will fit under the cap and resign Eminger as a spare.

Teams almost complete!
I hope they make it five for Callahan. As it stands, both Dubinsky and Staal will be hitting UFA the same summer, and if we add Callahan to that mix...well, my heart can't take it. I know plenty can change between now and then, but it would allow me to rest easier!

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07-21-2011, 11:33 AM
  #879
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Zuccarello at $1.75M with no bonus cushion is a waste of cap space. Unless he can contribute more than just scoring in the shootout,he belongs in the AHL.
He scored 23 points in 42 games as a rookie. Thats 45 points over a season, would put him tied in 4th on the season in points with everyone favorite Stepan if he played all 82 games at that pace.

How exactly is he useless again?

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07-21-2011, 11:37 AM
  #880
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
He scored 23 points in 42 games as a rookie. Thats 45 points over a season, would put him tied in 4th on the season in points with everyone favorite Stepan if he played all 82 games at that pace.

How exactly is he useless again?

Pace =/= production. Stepan was a much more noticeable player game in and out and that's why he spent the entire season with the team at 20 years old and Zuccarello split time between the NHL/AHL at 23 years old. There realistically isn't a lot of room for him on this roster right now. If any rookies make the team, he's playing in the A.

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07-21-2011, 11:38 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Pace =/= production. Stepan was a much more noticeable player game in and out and that's why he spent the entire season with the team at 20 years old and Zuccarello split time between the NHL/AHL at 23 years old. There realistically isn't a lot of room for him on this roster right now. If any rookies make the team, he's playing in the A.
Wow, you mean there's actually more to judging a player's worth than looking at statistics?!?!

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07-21-2011, 11:40 AM
  #882
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definately let out a "BOOYA!" and a fist pump at my desk when i came back from a meeting to see that we signed dubi before arbitration

got some looks but it was worth it

haven't read anyone else's reaction yet but i think its a solid cap hit for a decent term...would have loved another year or 2 but hey, i'll take it

alos, i imagine callahan will be getting nearly the exact same contract in a couple days

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07-21-2011, 11:45 AM
  #883
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Erixon doesn't really become a concern until opening night, when Zuccarello, Wolski or Christensen can be demoted anyway.
Would have to be one of Zuccarello or Wolski and, as the roster stands now, I don't think the team can afford to demote either.

Of course, the key words are "as the roster stands now."

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07-21-2011, 11:50 AM
  #884
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Wolski - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Fedetenko - Stepan - Avery/Thomas/Hagelin/Christensen/Zuccarello
Prust - Boyle - Rupp
Staal - Girardi
McD - Sauer
Del Zotto - Erixon/Eminger
Lundqvist
Biron

I see very little chance for Zuccarello unless he has a significant camp/pre-season.

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Old
07-21-2011, 11:50 AM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Pace =/= production. Stepan was a much more noticeable player game in and out and that's why he spent the entire season with the team at 20 years old and Zuccarello split time between the NHL/AHL at 23 years old. There realistically isn't a lot of room for him on this roster right now. If any rookies make the team, he's playing in the A.
Both Zucc and Stepan were noticable and both we VERY unknowable as well during the season.

There were games were both players were the most noticeable player out there and then they would go on 5 game stretches where I forgot they played.

but they were rookies so thats expected, it would be crazy to write off a young player like MZA after the points he put up.

I swear if he wasnt 5'7 nobody would write him off, people just cant look beyond that no matter what he does on the ice.

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07-21-2011, 11:50 AM
  #886
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This thread sucks. Everyone is all up in arms for no reason. The panic button was fully pressed, thanks to brooks. Methinks its time to disban him as a legitimate source, first the drury filing the injury papers to block the buy-out, now the epic failure saying dubi was going to arb... He's 0/2

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07-21-2011, 11:52 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Wolski - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Fedetenko - Stepan - Avery/Thomas/Hagelin/Christensen/Zuccarello
Prust - Boyle - Rupp
Staal - Girardi
McD - Sauer
Del Zotto - Erixon/Eminger
Lundqvist
Biron

I see very little chance for Zuccarello unless he has a significant camp/pre-season.
Wolski is a toss up, and he DEFINITELY wont be playing on the top line, so where does he fit? He is not a 3rd or 4th line player.

Zucc has a better shot then all of Avery, Thomas, hag..and might be on par with Erik.

If Zuccs looks even remotely better then last season (which by all accounts he is going to be with all the training he is doing), then he will easily get on the roster.

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07-21-2011, 11:54 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
Both Zucc and Stepan were noticable and both we VERY unknowable as well during the season.

There were games were both players were the most noticeable player out there and then they would go on 5 game stretches where I forgot they played.

but they were rookies so thats expected, it would be crazy to write off a young player like MZA after the points he put up.

I swear if he wasnt 5'7 nobody would write him off, people just cant look beyond that no matter what he does on the ice.
So... were our NHL level coaches, scouts and management unable to overlook Zuccarellos size when they chose to stick with a 20 year old all season and send the 23 year old to the minors? Especially when the 23 year old was "on pace" for the same amount of points? Or is that just totally inconsequential? The same team of coaches, scouts and advisors seemed to be able to get over Zuccarello's size when they signed him to an NHL contract so... why play a 20 year old over him (who you could easily, EASILY argue would gain more from playing in the AHL) when they were on the same "pace"? Obviously, because pace is meaningless and Zuccarello wasn't close to as good as Stepan.

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07-21-2011, 11:54 AM
  #889
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So do the Rangers send Dubinsky a bill for making them fly personnel out to Toronto for this arbitration hearing that never transpired?

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07-21-2011, 11:54 AM
  #890
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Rangers, Dubinsky Avoid Arbitration, Agree to Four-Year Contract
http://nhlhotstove.com/rangers-dubin...year-contract/

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07-21-2011, 11:56 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by The Healthy Scratch View Post
Wolski is a toss up, and he DEFINITELY wont be playing on the top line, so where does he fit? He is not a 3rd or 4th line player.

Zucc has a better shot then all of Avery, Thomas, hag..and might be on par with Erik.

If Zuccs looks even remotely better then last season (which by all accounts he is going to be with all the training he is doing), then he will easily get on the roster.
Wolski will almost undoubtedly get a good look on the first line. He is ONE season removed from scoring 65 points. ONE. There is no doubt he will be given a shot to play with Richards. Zuccarello does not have a better shot than Avery. Zuccarello can be sent down. Avery is not going to be sent to Hartford unless Zuccarello has an amazing camp and forces our hand in his favor.

Seriously, did you start watching hockey this year?

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07-21-2011, 11:58 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
Wolski will almost undoubtedly get a good look on the first line. He is ONE season removed from scoring 65 points. ONE. There is no doubt he will be given a shot to play with Richards. Zuccarello does not have a better shot than Avery. Zuccarello can be sent down. Avery is not going to be sent to Hartford unless Zuccarello has an amazing camp and forces our hand in his favor.

Seriously, did you start watching hockey this year?
I think they'll think about putting Wolski on the first line, but that's a pretty terrible defensive line and pretty soft to boot. It'd look better as PP line than a 5 on 5 line IMO. I still think Dubinsky looks like the best bet on the top line LW because he can retrieve the puck and work the boards better than anyone else on the team, and that's something Richards and Gaborik will need

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07-21-2011, 12:01 PM
  #893
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don't see WW going anywhere till next yr. Obviously he won't be qualified at 3.8 million plus a raise. Also Avery and Feds are gondie as UFAs

This yr Zuccarello and Hagelin are blocked but I do believe they will see time but it would have to an injury which is bound to happen

Dubinsky, Richards, Gaborik
Wolski , Stepan, Callahan
Boyle, Anisimov, Fedotenko
Avery, Rupp, Prust
Christensen

mix it up however you like that's 13 F. No pt to dump EC to open a spot cause I don't think it really does. Sure Avery can sit but I don't see that either. he is Richards buddy and is in his last yr of the contract so something to prove. Also he has negative trade value.

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07-21-2011, 12:02 PM
  #894
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I think they'll think about putting Wolski on the first line, but that's a pretty terrible defensive line and pretty soft to boot. It'd look better as PP line than a 5 on 5 line IMO. I still think Dubinsky looks like the best bet on the top line LW because he can retrieve the puck and work the boards better than anyone else on the team, and that's something Richards and Gaborik will need
We're going to see a ton of people slot in next to Richards, for various amounts of time, but anyone who doesn't think Wolski will get plenty of opportunities there if he's on the opening night roster is smoking something. Wolski might not have had a great year last year, but he's in a contract year now, he's been skating with Underhill, and a line of Richards, Gaborik and Wolski simply has too much skill to be easily defended against. Wolski will get a good look on that wing and could easily post 50+ points this season. I mean, since we're talking about being "on pace" for something anyway, he was on pace for for ~42 points after the trade last year anyways. Give him a full season, in a contract year, on that line and he might be the player he was a year ago.

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07-21-2011, 12:05 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I think they'll think about putting Wolski on the first line, but that's a pretty terrible defensive line and pretty soft to boot. It'd look better as PP line than a 5 on 5 line IMO. I still think Dubinsky looks like the best bet on the top line LW because he can retrieve the puck and work the boards better than anyone else on the team, and that's something Richards and Gaborik will need
I think Wolski becomes less and less effective as he moves down the lineup. His only chance to deliver on offensive expectations is play on a dynamic offensive line.

Surely, we'll see them both in that spot at times though and I guess you just go with the combo that's working at that point in time.

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07-21-2011, 12:08 PM
  #896
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I think Wolski becomes less and less effective as he moves down the lineup. His only chance to deliver on offensive expectations is play on a dynamic offensive line.

Surely, we'll see them both in that spot at times though and I guess you just go with the combo that's working at that point in time.
Agreed on all of the above, but don't you think these are the most logical lines going into camp?

Dubi-Richards-Gabby
Wolski-AA-Cally

Much better mixes IMO.

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07-21-2011, 12:17 PM
  #897
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We're going to see a ton of people slot in next to Richards, for various amounts of time, but anyone who doesn't think Wolski will get plenty of opportunities there if he's on the opening night roster is smoking something. Wolski might not have had a great year last year, but he's in a contract year now, he's been skating with Underhill, and a line of Richards, Gaborik and Wolski simply has too much skill to be easily defended against. Wolski will get a good look on that wing and could easily post 50+ points this season. I mean, since we're talking about being "on pace" for something anyway, he was on pace for for ~42 points after the trade last year anyways. Give him a full season, in a contract year, on that line and he might be the player he was a year ago.
Oh I think he'll get a shot, I just don't think that line is defensively responsible enough for Tortorella to not freak out and shake things up. Plus like I said, they'll be great with the puck, but have trouble getting it back when they lose it. It's not always just about throwing the most skilled guys together

Quote:
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I think Wolski becomes less and less effective as he moves down the lineup. His only chance to deliver on offensive expectations is play on a dynamic offensive line.

Surely, we'll see them both in that spot at times though and I guess you just go with the combo that's working at that point in time.
I agree though I think putting him on the second line isn't a problem...he still would playing with some skilled guys that could help compliment his game

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07-21-2011, 12:58 PM
  #898
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Zuccarello at $1.75M with no bonus cushion is a waste of cap space. Unless he can contribute more than just scoring in the shootout,he belongs in the AHL.
Average scoring in NHL
Zucca 0.55
Boyle 0.27
Cally 0.51
Dubi 0.57
A.A 0.44
Christ 0.45

There are many on rangers roster who by points belong in the AHL,and half of those I listed,cant score in shootout

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07-21-2011, 01:01 PM
  #899
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Average scoring in NHL
Zucca 0.55
Boyle 0.27
Cally 0.51
Dubi 0.57
A.A 0.44
Christ 0.45

There are many on rangers roster who by points belong in the AHL,and half of those I listed,cant score in shootout
Blahblahblah. Every player you mentioned besides Christensen has a 2000% bettter chance of playing 82 games for the Rangers next year than Zuccarello.

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07-21-2011, 01:06 PM
  #900
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Oh I think he'll get a shot, I just don't think that line is defensively responsible enough for Tortorella to not freak out and shake things up. Plus like I said, they'll be great with the puck, but have trouble getting it back when they lose it. It's not always just about throwing the most skilled guys together
This idea is a silly one that has been promulgated by fans who think they're making sense, but really aren't, at all. The only concern with that line would be working in the corners in the offensive zone, and frankly, in a contract year, knowing his stock league wide will drop severely if he can't perform, and having the opportunity to play on a stacked line with Richards and Gaborik, Wolski is a 6'3 210lb guy who should be able to win the battles if his heart is in it.

The idea of the line not being defensively sound enough is silly. It's a SCORING line. It will be matched up against other teams best DEFENSIVE lines. They're not going to have to defend against a talented offensive line; they're going to have to get back and play against the other teams shutdown guys, defensively. Further, Gaborik and Wolski, who are the bigger defensive liabilities, only duties are to cover the points and be in position for the breakout. Richards is actually considered a fairly good player in the defensive zone (please, don't start throwing +/- around; it's meaningless if we're not watching the player in question and anyone who has watched Richards know he's more than adequate defensively) and he'll be the one who has to come lower in the zone to help out with the defensemen. If we keep Staal and Girardi with them at even strength than there is absolutely, positively ZERO reason why Wolski and Gaborik covering their points with Richards, Staal and Girardi working down low is not a good enough line defensively to justify what they could do for us offensively. None.

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