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Old
07-21-2011, 03:21 PM
  #901
Lions999
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Mike Bossy was saying in juniors he was scared everytime he went out to play because he was one of the best at the time and each team was gunning for him.He said he had 1 or 2 guys on his team that could drop the gloves but other teams had 4 or 5 guys that could intimidate.He also said guys from other teams he played against would go up to him and tell him he wouldn`t finish the game.He was also asked if would have been able to score 100 goals in a season in juniors,by they way he average 67 goals in juniors.He said yes if he wasn`t so scared everytime he went on the ice.He said being scared like that prevented him from playing hard all the time...

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07-21-2011, 03:54 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, I'm pretty sure Lucic isn't scared to go in the corners to battle with Gionta.
But that's not what I, or anybody else for that matter, should care about. I care about our team, as a whole, not how strong individual players are or how well they can fight. We have a guy that will drop the gloves. I don't care if he loses his fights like Kosto did, it sends a message that we are united and we will stick up for each other. That's all I care about. Sure would be great to have some big guys that can fight so we can pound some Bruins in, but that's being emotional, not rational. You're putting focus on physical beating some opponent. I really don't care about this.
When push comes to shove, we can take care of ourselves. I don't mind if Gill bear hugs everybody, I don't care if we lose every single fight we get into, I care about winning.
You mention that we had players like Komi, Bouillon, Begin, Kosto, etc.. before which made things easier for us. But didn't Komi get jumped from behind by Lucic in 08-09? Remember that game?? Again, the Bruins gooned it up. It wasn't as bad as beating a Pyatt with an elbow pad of Thornton fighting Hammer, but still they gooned it up. They ended up losing that game which made us clinch for the POs. We were battered with injuries and got swept in the POs, but still, it just goes to show, what matters is winning.
Last year, during that ridiculous game, people forget it was 8-6. It was 6-5 before they scored midway in the 3rd after a penalty call on DD. They decided to goon it up at the end.
The following game, we win 4-1. Chara took MaxPac's head off, but like I said, everybody here agrees those cheap shots are not preventable.
So tell me, we certainly didn't back down after getting bullied. We bounced back by winning 4-1, that's all I'll put my focus on.
Trying to justify the importance of a protector is ridiculous. It has very little barring on the game, a minimal impact at best. It's just fans that are simply sick of seeing the Habs lose physical fights that try to argue the importance of it.

Could we benefit from having a big tough guy?? Sure. I'm sure plenty of people, if not everybody, would welcome this addition.
Could his impact be as big as to influence the outcome of our season, or even just a few games?? I don't think so.
Maybe one game, just like Picard getting a GWG, it could happen to everybody. But chances are he'll hold very little impact.
You don't think a 5 foot 8 inch forward going into the corners against a 6 foot 3 200+ lb dman should be something we should worry about? You don't think that the 5 foot 8 guy might be a little timid himself and play a poorer game if all the guys on his line are the same? You don't think Moen and White could play their role a little better if they had a heavyweight looking to back up their aggressive play, of course they would. Moen has looked like gunk for that reason, he is constantly looking over his shoulder for the opposing teams heavyweight.

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07-21-2011, 04:01 PM
  #903
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I love that only Habs fans could debate the "protector role" for this long and so passionately. First, I believe nobody touches your goalie ever without a response from your team. If the other team is running him without the referees make penalty calls then you have to go after the perpetrator immediately and warn the other team by running their goalie. "Protectors" are for the goalies only as I believe every NHL player should be able to take care of himself as hockey is a physical game not golf or darts.

I have 40+years as a player, coach and referee in hockey at all minor league levels. The Chara hit disturbed me in many ways. Hockey has been played for over 100 years and changes to the game have always come to make the game better and fairer. What most fans have seen over the last few years is that the NHL players are getting concussed more now. Crosby being out has only heightened the awareness of the problem. Probert's and Fleming's diagnoses of CTE again worsened this fear. It should not be simply dismissed. The game has become faster because the rules changed in the NHL after the lockout, to stop the interference by calling the rules. The rules of the game are all there to stop what is happening in the NHL but they have to be enforced. I have, since I was a kid, wondered why is it that the NHL does not seem to have the same penalties for the infractions as we do. The NHL is not the leader for safer or better hockey. Kids have always followed NHL Players' actions but do we really want our kids acting this way? The NHL has a catch 22, if there are to be changes. It must be the same from the ground up everywhere. Some provinces and countries have different philosophies, checking rules and teaching techniques. Players in the NHL come from around the globe now as well. The NHL has to re-teach the players how to check an opponent and that the purpose of body checking is not for intimidation but simply for regaining possession of the puck as the rules originally intended. The NHL hits today do neither. I hear too often that the player was just finishing his hit and didn't intend to injure his opponent. Well then why do it? Finishing the hit after the puck is gone seems ridiculous since the puck is no longer there to possess anyway, therefore the hit only serves to intimidate, injure or gain retribution. Chara's body check was deemed illegal on the ice by referees because the puck was no longer there. The body check was clearly serving one of the three reasons I stated before, but only Chara knows which. The reason the NHL could not give a suspension to the hit was because it only would show their incompetences in not correcting the stanchion problems and that they failed to act on all the previous times this infraction occurred. This is just another problem which was ignored again by the NHL while failing to make changes for the betterment of the game. People who really love the game of hockey must continue to demand changes, not in the rules so much as the attitudes towards how they are enforced by the officials and how the game is played.

It is clear to me that right now the players are out of control with no line being draw as to what is acceptable and what is not. The players are deciding on their own by their actions being shown on the ice, that the NHL leadership and their referees are no longer in control of the game.

It is time to see if the NHL will show the players where the line is while the consequences for crossing it must be severe. The League's Commissioner's office must police the game not the players acting like vigilantes on the ice as the players have shown in the past and present that they can not police themselves.

It is possible that Gauthier is keeping money available should the NHL fail to act and not address the issues concerning what happened to Pacioretty or injuries to his line-up. Geoff Molson is involved with the Board about what the NHL will do with regards to the new rules and if the Habs need to deal with non-addressed aggressions towards their smaller star players then they can make moves to fix this problem.
Keep up the great posts everyone, it's so enjoyable to read them all!! GO HABS GO

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Old
07-21-2011, 04:22 PM
  #904
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
You don't think a 5 foot 8 inch forward going into the corners against a 6 foot 3 200+ lb dman should be something we should worry about? You don't think that the 5 foot 8 guy might be a little timid himself and play a poorer game if all the guys on his line are the same? You don't think Moen and White could play their role a little better if they had a heavyweight looking to back up their aggressive play, of course they would. Moen has looked like gunk for that reason, he is constantly looking over his shoulder for the opposing teams heavyweight.
The 5'8 Gionta will ALWAYS have to go in the corners and chances are he'll do it versus plenty of 6'3 Dman. You think he got to the NHL by being intimidated by bigger stronger guys??
What would Gionta gain from having Konopka in the line up, really? Nothing at all. You think a guy like Konopka or whoever else would go talk to that 6'3 Dman and tell him not to touch Gionta?? It would change absolutely nothing.
Will he benefit from having Cole however? Absolutely, but Cole isn't a protector. I'm not talking about that.


Moen has been a very reliable defensive forward. He had 1 less hit last year and only 2points less two years ago as opposed to his career high season in Anaheim. Two years ago, he had 161, only 10 less than his previous year with the Ducks/Sharks.
He had the most penalties during his career year in 06-07, with 9 majors. Last year he had 8 with us.
There's a big misconception about Moen on these boards. Sure, his presence isn't felt as much here because there isn't him + Parros + Thornton, but he's played just about the same way as he has in Anaheim. Not sure what people really expected out of him. The man has always played his role well.

But would he and White enjoy having an even bigger tough guy there to support them??? Sure, everybody would.
Would it actually impact the outcome of multiple games/season though? I highly doubt it.

There isn't one person in this thread that debated we shouldn't bring in a tough guy. The debates happen when some try to say it's somewhat of a necessity and would actually impact our game.

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Old
07-21-2011, 04:30 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
You don't think a 5 foot 8 inch forward going into the corners against a 6 foot 3 200+ lb dman should be something we should worry about? You don't think that the 5 foot 8 guy might be a little timid himself and play a poorer game if all the guys on his line are the same? You don't think Moen and White could play their role a little better if they had a heavyweight looking to back up their aggressive play, of course they would. Moen has looked like gunk for that reason, he is constantly looking over his shoulder for the opposing teams heavyweight.
and should the goon fight everytime the 5'8 player receives a clean hit ?

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Old
07-21-2011, 04:32 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The 5'8 Gionta will ALWAYS have to go in the corners and chances are he'll do it versus plenty of 6'3 Dman. You think he got to the NHL by being intimidated by bigger stronger guys??
What would Gionta gain from having Konopka in the line up, really? Nothing at all. You think a guy like Konopka or whoever else would go talk to that 6'3 Dman and tell him not to touch Gionta?? It would change absolutely nothing.
Will he benefit from having Cole however? Absolutely, but Cole isn't a protector. I'm not talking about that.


Moen has been a very reliable defensive forward. He had 1 less hit last year and only 2points less two years ago as opposed to his career high season in Anaheim. Two years ago, he had 161, only 10 less than his previous year with the Ducks/Sharks.
He had the most penalties during his career year in 06-07, with 9 majors. Last year he had 8 with us.
There's a big misconception about Moen on these boards. Sure, his presence isn't felt as much here because there isn't him + Parros + Thornton, but he's played just about the same way as he has in Anaheim. Not sure what people really expected out of him. The man has always played his role well.

But would he and White enjoy having an even bigger tough guy there to support them??? Sure, everybody would.
Would it actually impact the outcome of multiple games/season though? I highly doubt it.

There isn't one person in this thread that debated we shouldn't bring in a tough guy. The debates happen when some try to say it's somewhat of a necessity and would actually impact our game.
I never once wanted konopka, not sure where you're going again.

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07-21-2011, 06:26 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Stan Lee Coupe View Post
It is clear to me that right now the players are out of control with no line being draw as to what is acceptable and what is not. The players are deciding on their own by their actions being shown on the ice, that the NHL leadership and their referees are no longer in control of the game.

It is time to see if the NHL will show the players where the line is while the consequences for crossing it must be severe. The League's Commissioner's office must police the game not the players acting like vigilantes on the ice as the players have shown in the past and present that they can not police themselves.
It's unfortunate that your post has been overlooked to settle personal gratification. I didn't quote it all but I'd like to add to what I've quoted above.

The fact is that there is simply no respectable leadership at the helm of the NHL since Bettman took over. Ever since, a lot of the decisions taken, including expansion and some rule changes have been mind boggling to those who have been fans and/or involved in the game for some time. I don't doubt the intentions here, but many decisions simply weren't thought thoroughly.

The change to the instigator rule in the early 90's is one example. The introduction of the two-referees system, bringing up incompetence at this level, expansion to non-traditional markets, relocation away from hockey beds, gimmicks like the shootout in a lame attempt to lure more fans... those are only a few very questionable decisions made by this regime.

Everyone thought that Bettman had a job due to the negotiation of the last CBA. Fans had agreed in most case to scrap a season in order to fix the game, by forcing a salary cap. What did we do this for when the problem was obviously not fixed, as many teams are guaranteed to lose money before the puck is even dropped as they can't afford the cap floor?

And I fully agree with your assessment of the situation when it comes to the way the game is being called on the ice, and the lack of strong direction as far as suspensions and punishment are concerned. The two different rulings for the Chris Pronger vs Chris Simon suspensions were mind boggling, same with the Chara and Rome suspensions. Two weights, two measures always.

Still though, I'd like to see the NHL go back to the one judgement (one referee) on the ice, and reverting back to the old instigator rule (pre-1990's), allowing players to somewhat police themselves a bit more. I'd also push hard to get a commissioner who knows hockey, even if it means splitting the position by having someone look after the rules and the game, and another person help him with the negotiation of the CBA. Then I'd like to see a discipline committee of 3, instead of relying on one person.

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Old
07-21-2011, 06:42 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, I'm pretty sure Lucic isn't scared to go in the corners to battle with Gionta.
But that's not what I, or anybody else for that matter, should care about. I care about our team, as a whole, not how strong individual players are or how well they can fight. We have a guy that will drop the gloves. I don't care if he loses his fights like Kosto did, it sends a message that we are united and we will stick up for each other. That's all I care about. Sure would be great to have some big guys that can fight so we can pound some Bruins in, but that's being emotional, not rational. You're putting focus on physical beating some opponent. I really don't care about this.
When push comes to shove, we can take care of ourselves. I don't mind if Gill bear hugs everybody, I don't care if we lose every single fight we get into, I care about winning.
You mention that we had players like Komi, Bouillon, Begin, Kosto, etc.. before which made things easier for us. But didn't Komi get jumped from behind by Lucic in 08-09? Remember that game?? Again, the Bruins gooned it up. It wasn't as bad as beating a Pyatt with an elbow pad of Thornton fighting Hammer, but still they gooned it up. They ended up losing that game which made us clinch for the POs. We were battered with injuries and got swept in the POs, but still, it just goes to show, what matters is winning.
Last year, during that ridiculous game, people forget it was 8-6. It was 6-5 before they scored midway in the 3rd after a penalty call on DD. They decided to goon it up at the end.
The following game, we win 4-1. Chara took MaxPac's head off, but like I said, everybody here agrees those cheap shots are not preventable.
So tell me, we certainly didn't back down after getting bullied. We bounced back by winning 4-1, that's all I'll put my focus on.
Trying to justify the importance of a protector is ridiculous. It has very little barring on the game, a minimal impact at best. It's just fans that are simply sick of seeing the Habs lose physical fights that try to argue the importance of it.

Could we benefit from having a big tough guy?? Sure. I'm sure plenty of people, if not everybody, would welcome this addition.
Could his impact be as big as to influence the outcome of our season, or even just a few games?? I don't think so.
Maybe one game, just like Picard getting a GWG, it could happen to everybody. But chances are he'll hold very little impact.
I understand your mindset. I dont agree with it at all, but I understand where you are coming from.

You look at hockey as a competition based on X's and O's. If you have the best strategy, as in chess or in XBox, you can win the game. And dont get me wrong, hockey players are professionals and very well paid. They get the X's and the O's of the game.

But they are not robots, chess pieces or mindless players on a TV or computer screen. They are human beings. And as such, they are controlled by their MINDS. Basically every player has a certain skill set that they are capable of repeating in a game. That is why they signed a NHL contract while the rest of us are simply fans.

They do, however, have emotions. Any and every sport is based on skill AND emotions. Have you ever heard the talking head on TV say that this team "came out flat" and were outplayed? The guys still had their skill set. They just were not in the right emotional state.

The problem is that people as yourself do not understand the emotional aspect of any sports game. I will not venture to speculate why. However, you are wrong to dismiss that part of any game, from pee wee to the highest level, the NHL.

Emotional involvement cannot be measured. There is no "evidence" that you can pull up to see if Plekanec was on top of his game mentally or not. But it is real. And it is an integral part in the outcome of a "game".

That is one of the reasons why I am not a fan of Martin. He dismisses that aspect of the game. To him, it is X's and O's. Nothing more. And that is why I understand and realize that he is not a fan of having fighters on a team as he does not appreciate the emotional/momentum changing/exciting/inspiring aspect of that REAL part of hockey that was a part of the past in the NHL and is still present today.

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07-21-2011, 07:09 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I understand your mindset. I dont agree with it at all, but I understand where you are coming from.

You look at hockey as a competition based on X's and O's. If you have the best strategy, as in chess or in XBox, you can win the game. And dont get me wrong, hockey players are professionals and very well paid. They get the X's and the O's of the game.

But they are not robots, chess pieces or mindless players on a TV or computer screen. They are human beings. And as such, they are controlled by their MINDS. Basically every player has a certain skill set that they are capable of repeating in a game. That is why they signed a NHL contract while the rest of us are simply fans.

They do, however, have emotions. Any and every sport is based on skill AND emotions. Have you ever heard the talking head on TV say that this team "came out flat" and were outplayed? The guys still had their skill set. They just were not in the right emotional state.

The problem is that people as yourself do not understand the emotional aspect of any sports game. I will not venture to speculate why. However, you are wrong to dismiss that part of any game, from pee wee to the highest level, the NHL.

Emotional involvement cannot be measured. There is no "evidence" that you can pull up to see if Plekanec was on top of his game mentally or not. But it is real. And it is an integral part in the outcome of a "game".

That is one of the reasons why I am not a fan of Martin. He dismisses that aspect of the game. To him, it is X's and O's. Nothing more. And that is why I understand and realize that he is not a fan of having fighters on a team as he does not appreciate the emotional/momentum changing/exciting/inspiring aspect of that REAL part of hockey that was a part of the past in the NHL and is still present today.
Which will continue to be present forever.

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07-21-2011, 07:32 PM
  #910
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I'm not the biggest pro fighting guy, but I do think Habs need one or two more guys that can drop it when it's necessary to help Moen and White(but they need to know how to play hockey, goons are useless). Also, to people saying fighting doesn't help winning games at all you are forgetting this moment of Habs hockey.



That's what's a physical guy willing to drop the gloves can do to a team. It was 1-0 Dallas at the beginning of the game, the Stars were dominating the play. Steve Ott was running throught our guys and was able to do what he wanted and he was hitting alot and hard. Then, Stewart hit him and fight him. Then, Habs killed the penalty. After this the momentum was clearly on Habs side and Ott was doing nothing after that. We then won the game. (and Carbo was fired just after this, but that's another story)

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07-21-2011, 07:39 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Moen has been a very reliable defensive forward. He had 1 less hit last year and only 2points less two years ago as opposed to his career high season in Anaheim. Two years ago, he had 161, only 10 less than his previous year with the Ducks/Sharks.
He had the most penalties during his career year in 06-07, with 9 majors. Last year he had 8 with us.
There's a big misconception about Moen on these boards. Sure, his presence isn't felt as much here because there isn't him + Parros + Thornton, but he's played just about the same way as he has in Anaheim. Not sure what people really expected out of him. The man has always played his role well.

But would he and White enjoy having an even bigger tough guy there to support them??? Sure, everybody would.
Would it actually impact the outcome of multiple games/season though? I highly doubt it.

There isn't one person in this thread that debated we shouldn't bring in a tough guy. The debates happen when some try to say it's somewhat of a necessity and would actually impact our game.
I saw Moen being the agressor way more in Anaheim than having to respond in here in Montreal. You watch a few of his fights and you see him responding way more. Having 9 fights in Anaheim and 8 here is really understandable. In Montreal it's him or....him. While in Anaheim, it was him or others. 8 when you're the only tough guy compared to 9 when you have to take your turn....

And he's slowing down by the seasons. I've watched him in Anaheim 'cause I wanted him for a long time....and while he's still not a liability, he is slowing down. So I wish he is surrounded more 'cause if not, I don't believe he'll be more useful as the years pass by.

Would it impact our game? We don't know. Somehow, some thought Tom Pyatt impacted our game, same guy we let go for nothing. Remember? Same guy that when he was in the lineup, we were almost unbeaten and when he was not playing we were sucking a lot? Possible that a tough guy that plays hockey could "impact" our game the same way, either by giving some breathing room to Moen and White. Maybe to let our smaller guys feel more confortable. Maybe by being somehow an aggressor and trying to change the momentum of a game.

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07-21-2011, 07:48 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I saw Moen being the agressor way more in Anaheim than having to respond in here in Montreal. You watch a few of his fights and you see him responding way more. Having 9 fights in Anaheim and 8 here is really understandable. In Montreal it's him or....him. While in Anaheim, it was him or others. 8 when you're the only tough guy compared to 9 when you have to take your turn....

And he's slowing down by the seasons. I've watched him in Anaheim 'cause I wanted him for a long time....and while he's still not a liability, he is slowing down. So I wish he is surrounded more 'cause if not, I don't believe he'll be more useful as the years pass by.

Would it impact our game? We don't know. Somehow, some thought Tom Pyatt impacted our game, same guy we let go for nothing. Remember? Same guy that when he was in the lineup, we were almost unbeaten and when he was not playing we were sucking a lot? Possible that a tough guy that plays hockey could "impact" our game the same way, either by giving some breathing room to Moen and White. Maybe to let our smaller guys feel more confortable. Maybe by being somehow an aggressor and trying to change the momentum of a game.
I have to disagreee with your statement, I watched closely Anaheim, because I like this team for a few years now and the only place where Moen is slowing down is being the agressor in fights and in big hits. The only reason is the lack of support IMO (he was tougher at the end of the season with White in the lineup), because Moen also didn't slow down in one very important part of his game : being an awesome defensive forward. That's why he is used often by Martin and why he was on the famous Niedermayer-Pahlsson-Moen line in Anaheim. When you watch him closely he is the second or third best defensive forward with the team right now (Plekanec is the first and second is perhaps Gionta even then I think Moen is better than him) and a big part of one of the best PK in the league. He always make the good play as a defensive forward and even if he would be soft as butter he would still be an usefull NHler.

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07-21-2011, 08:11 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I never once wanted konopka, not sure where you're going again.
I'm not talking about you. You can switch Konopka's name for whichever other of the same type.
Bottom line is I don't think fans should be whining about our GM not getting x or y bottom liners.
You know I wanted O'Brien as a depth Dman, you were very much in favor of it as well. Alas, we didn't get him. I'm somewhat disappointed, but not enough to judge Gauthier on it. Our biggest need was depth, and top 6. We got both of those filled with the signing of Cole, and the re-signal of DD/AK. Now we'll see what he does with his remaining cap.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I saw Moen being the agressor way more in Anaheim than having to respond in here in Montreal. You watch a few of his fights and you see him responding way more. Having 9 fights in Anaheim and 8 here is really understandable. In Montreal it's him or....him. While in Anaheim, it was him or others. 8 when you're the only tough guy compared to 9 when you have to take your turn....

And he's slowing down by the seasons. I've watched him in Anaheim 'cause I wanted him for a long time....and while he's still not a liability, he is slowing down. So I wish he is surrounded more 'cause if not, I don't believe he'll be more useful as the years pass by.

Would it impact our game? We don't know. Somehow, some thought Tom Pyatt impacted our game, same guy we let go for nothing. Remember? Same guy that when he was in the lineup, we were almost unbeaten and when he was not playing we were sucking a lot? Possible that a tough guy that plays hockey could "impact" our game the same way, either by giving some breathing room to Moen and White. Maybe to let our smaller guys feel more confortable. Maybe by being somehow an aggressor and trying to change the momentum of a game.
Not sure where you saw that Moen has regressed. He might have brought down his aggression, which is normal. I'm pretty sure Marchand would cool down if he was with us. But other than that, his defensive play is still very sound. As good as it's ever been.

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Old
07-22-2011, 12:43 AM
  #914
Stan Lee Coupe
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
It's unfortunate that your post has been overlooked to settle personal gratification. I didn't quote it all but I'd like to add to what I've quoted above.

The fact is that there is simply no respectable leadership at the helm of the NHL since Bettman took over. Ever since, a lot of the decisions taken, including expansion and some rule changes have been mind boggling to those who have been fans and/or involved in the game for some time. I don't doubt the intentions here, but many decisions simply weren't thought thoroughly.

The change to the instigator rule in the early 90's is one example. The introduction of the two-referees system, bringing up incompetence at this level, expansion to non-traditional markets, relocation away from hockey beds, gimmicks like the shootout in a lame attempt to lure more fans... those are only a few very questionable decisions made by this regime.

Everyone thought that Bettman had a job due to the negotiation of the last CBA. Fans had agreed in most case to scrap a season in order to fix the game, by forcing a salary cap. What did we do this for when the problem was obviously not fixed, as many teams are guaranteed to lose money before the puck is even dropped as they can't afford the cap floor?

And I fully agree with your assessment of the situation when it comes to the way the game is being called on the ice, and the lack of strong direction as far as suspensions and punishment are concerned. The two different rulings for the Chris Pronger vs Chris Simon suspensions were mind boggling, same with the Chara and Rome suspensions. Two weights, two measures always.

Still though, I'd like to see the NHL go back to the one judgement (one referee) on the ice, and reverting back to the old instigator rule (pre-1990's), allowing players to somewhat police themselves a bit more. I'd also push hard to get a commissioner who knows hockey, even if it means splitting the position by having someone look after the rules and the game, and another person help him with the negotiation of the CBA. Then I'd like to see a discipline committee of 3, instead of relying on one person.
I agreed completely with your response, it's bang on. The discipline committee of 3 is closed to something I already brought to M.Schneider and M Cammalleri back in April 2011. I made this suggestion to them as the NHLPA to make towards the NHL in the new CBA or this coming season.

I believe it is time for NHL to use a Disciplinary Committee to address game misconducts, match penalties and all required suspensions, using a group of 7 people. It should include ex-players, ex-general manager, ex-NHL on-ice officials, someone with no present biases toward any team. This type of committee can only be an effective deterrent for the players' on-ice transgressions by acting clearly, consistently and fairly when imposing suspensions.

The following are my suggested members for this committee:
Wayne Gretzky(NHL Player, coach, owner) as Chairman,
Keith Primeau (NHL player left game with concussions),
Pat Lafontaine (Same as Primeau),
Scott Bowman(Coach, general manager and special consultant),
Bob Gainey(NHL player, coach, general manager and special consultant),
John D'Amico(NHL linesman, one of the most respected),
Andy Van Hellemond(NHL referee, supervisor, video review supervisor and the most respected referee).

Thanks for your well thought out response.

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07-22-2011, 09:59 AM
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I love that only Habs fans could debate the "protector role" for this long and so passionately. First, I believe nobody touches your goalie ever without a response from your team. If the other team is running him without the referees make penalty calls then you have to go after the perpetrator immediately and warn the other team by running their goalie. "Protectors" are for the goalies only as I believe every NHL player should be able to take care of himself as hockey is a physical game not golf or darts.

I have 40+years as a player, coach and referee in hockey at all minor league levels. The Chara hit disturbed me in many ways. Hockey has been played for over 100 years and changes to the game have always come to make the game better and fairer. What most fans have seen over the last few years is that the NHL players are getting concussed more now. Crosby being out has only heightened the awareness of the problem. Probert's and Fleming's diagnoses of CTE again worsened this fear. It should not be simply dismissed. The game has become faster because the rules changed in the NHL after the lockout, to stop the interference by calling the rules. The rules of the game are all there to stop what is happening in the NHL but they have to be enforced. I have, since I was a kid, wondered why is it that the NHL does not seem to have the same penalties for the infractions as we do. The NHL is not the leader for safer or better hockey. Kids have always followed NHL Players' actions but do we really want our kids acting this way? The NHL has a catch 22, if there are to be changes. It must be the same from the ground up everywhere. Some provinces and countries have different philosophies, checking rules and teaching techniques. Players in the NHL come from around the globe now as well. The NHL has to re-teach the players how to check an opponent and that the purpose of body checking is not for intimidation but simply for regaining possession of the puck as the rules originally intended. The NHL hits today do neither. I hear too often that the player was just finishing his hit and didn't intend to injure his opponent. Well then why do it? Finishing the hit after the puck is gone seems ridiculous since the puck is no longer there to possess anyway, therefore the hit only serves to intimidate, injure or gain retribution. Chara's body check was deemed illegal on the ice by referees because the puck was no longer there. The body check was clearly serving one of the three reasons I stated before, but only Chara knows which. The reason the NHL could not give a suspension to the hit was because it only would show their incompetences in not correcting the stanchion problems and that they failed to act on all the previous times this infraction occurred. This is just another problem which was ignored again by the NHL while failing to make changes for the betterment of the game. People who really love the game of hockey must continue to demand changes, not in the rules so much as the attitudes towards how they are enforced by the officials and how the game is played.

It is clear to me that right now the players are out of control with no line being draw as to what is acceptable and what is not. The players are deciding on their own by their actions being shown on the ice, that the NHL leadership and their referees are no longer in control of the game.

It is time to see if the NHL will show the players where the line is while the consequences for crossing it must be severe. The League's Commissioner's office must police the game not the players acting like vigilantes on the ice as the players have shown in the past and present that they can not police themselves.

It is possible that Gauthier is keeping money available should the NHL fail to act and not address the issues concerning what happened to Pacioretty or injuries to his line-up. Geoff Molson is involved with the Board about what the NHL will do with regards to the new rules and if the Habs need to deal with non-addressed aggressions towards their smaller star players then they can make moves to fix this problem.
Keep up the great posts everyone, it's so enjoyable to read them all!! GO HABS GO
Great, great post. A MUST READ !


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07-23-2011, 08:52 AM
  #916
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13th forward

With 12 forwards,7 defense and 2 goalies signed and over 5 million left in cap space how could the HABS not have signed 1 of the following players to help out Moen in the grit department? ....Rupp(1.5) Eager (1.1) McCormack(1.2) Konopka (.700) Bradley(.950) Asham (.775) these guys can all play over 10 minutes a game and fight. If they failed with these guys how could they not sign 1 of these guys.....MacIntyre maybe the toughest guy in the NHL(.600) Janssen (.525) Boulton (.660) Hordichuck (.825). Lets not forget Torros(1.75) and Stewart (.900) could have played on the third line and hit everything in sight and score 20 goals.

I like the Cole signing but the HABS have dropped the ball again!!!!! We need bottom 6 toughness if we are going to have small players that can't stick up for themselves on the top 6 and 7 defensemen that can't fight.

Poor Travis Moen he must be pissed once again no help for him and fans on here wonder why he isn't fighting more, wake up it is because he has no help. I guess I will be watching another year of PK getting punched in the face 5 times a game or Price getting ran with no one sticking up for him or how about forwards taking runs at Markov from the blueline in.Oh don't forget Cams might have to stick someone in the face again because the other 4 Habs on the ice can't help out there only star forward.
I think I can add a new story line this year Subban will get ran into the boards by someone like Horton ot Lucic and gets hurt, yes and guess what no one does a thing to them. Or just maybe subban fights and breaks his hand and misses 30 games.

There were atleast 25 UFA this year that would have cost between 500 -1.5 million that would have helped this team but for some reason the HABS were not interested they would rather see the players get beat up all year. Strange all the other teams were interested in these kinds of players ???????? SAD

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07-23-2011, 09:09 AM
  #917
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With 12 forwards,7 defense and 2 goalies signed and over 5 million left in cap space how could the HABS not have signed 1 of the following players to help out Moen in the grit department? ....Rupp(1.5) Eager (1.1) McCormack(1.2) Konopka (.700) Bradley(.950) Asham (.775) these guys can all play over 10 minutes a game and fight. If they failed with these guys how could they not sign 1 of these guys.....MacIntyre maybe the toughest guy in the NHL(.600) Janssen (.525) Boulton (.660) Hordichuck (.825). Lets not forget Torros(1.75) and Stewart (.900) could have played on the third line and hit everything in sight and score 20 goals.

I like the Cole signing but the HABS have dropped the ball again!!!!! We need bottom 6 toughness if we are going to have small players that can't stick up for themselves on the top 6 and 7 defensemen that can't fight.

Poor Travis Moen he must be pissed once again no help for him and fans on here wonder why he isn't fighting more, wake up it is because he has no help. I guess I will be watching another year of PK getting punched in the face 5 times a game or Price getting ran with no one sticking up for him or how about forwards taking runs at Markov from the blueline in.Oh don't forget Cams might have to stick someone in the face again because the other 4 Habs on the ice can't help out there only star forward.
I think I can add a new story line this year Subban will get ran into the boards by someone like Horton ot Lucic and gets hurt, yes and guess what no one does a thing to them. Or just maybe subban fights and breaks his hand and misses 30 games.

There were atleast 25 UFA this year that would have cost between 500 -1.5 million that would have helped this team but for some reason the HABS were not interested they would rather see the players get beat up all year. Strange all the other teams were interested in these kinds of players ???????? SAD
All these other teams, were they better than the Habs last year?

Were they teams that brought the Stanley Cup Champs to the brink of elimination in a game 7 OT?

Were these teams missing key components in toughness and grit like that of Pacioretty and Gorges, and skill in Markov?

Did they address a need in top 6 toughness and skill in a Cole???

Please, a tough guy who plays 2-3 minutes a game, or is scratched doesn't make a difference.

If Emelin can play a physical game, and with Patches, Cole, White and Moen in the line up the Habs have a better game than last year.

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