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Rangers Re-sign Brandon Dubinsky (4 years, $4.2M per)

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07-21-2011, 05:02 PM
  #201
Brendan Shanahan
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How much do you expect a second liner to cost anyway?

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07-21-2011, 05:20 PM
  #202
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If Dubinsky was "consistent" he'd be a 1st line player and be commanding a lot more money. People need to be realistic when they complain about players consistency and what it means.

Not to mention he was playing through a stress fracture for parts of the season

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07-21-2011, 05:23 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Overpayment. 2nd line center, just about in his prime, who has scored 50+ points just once and 20+ goals twice. You can argue he will get better, sure, he might, but statistically players hit their prime in terms of scoring at 27, and he is already 25 and will be 26 by the playoffs next season.

A 20 goal scorer / 50 point center is not worth $4.2 million. In my opinion anything above $3.3 or $3.4 is an overpayment. That being said, as others have said, it's not a gross overpayment, but they certainly overpaid him.

Glad to see Dubinsky back though. My only regret is that M. Richards is no longer in our division. We will no longer get to see the Dubinsky vs M. Richards showdown. Oh well, I'm sure he'll find other ways to entertain me.
No, it's market this year for someone of his standing. It's a good deal.

If he were 32 and last year was his career high, I'd agree, but this is the sort of deal you need to sign with your guys on upwards development curves as they're on the verge of UFA status.

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07-21-2011, 05:35 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If Dubinsky was "consistent" he'd be a 1st line player and be commanding a lot more money. People need to be realistic when they complain about players consistency and what it means.
Agreed... I actually enjoy the fact that some of our more valued younger players, have limitations to their games... If of lot of them didn't, then we would not be able to afford most of them when you look at the cumulative effect of cap spending. For instance is Marc Staal had a well refined offensive game, he'd be costing us a hell of a lot more than he is now or will be costing us in the future... I also like Mike Sauer's game the way it is... Simple, but effective... He will never command a high end salary, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Similar things can be said for other players on our roster.

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07-21-2011, 05:52 PM
  #205
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Was hoping for a tad longer, but I'll take it.

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07-21-2011, 05:55 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post


No arbitration! Thank goodness.
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07-21-2011, 06:01 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Overpayment. 2nd line center, just about in his prime, who has scored 50+ points just once and 20+ goals twice. You can argue he will get better, sure, he might, but statistically players hit their prime in terms of scoring at 27, and he is already 25 and will be 26 by the playoffs next season.

A 20 goal scorer / 50 point center is not worth $4.2 million. In my opinion anything above $3.3 or $3.4 is an overpayment. That being said, as others have said, it's not a gross overpayment, but they certainly overpaid him.

Glad to see Dubinsky back though. My only regret is that M. Richards is no longer in our division. We will no longer get to see the Dubinsky vs M. Richards showdown. Oh well, I'm sure he'll find other ways to entertain me.
It's not an overpayment. The values of these contracts are dictated by current and past comparables. It's not just some random number the team and player come up with.

Half the board predicted nearly these exact terms. How? Looking at comparables. His contract is EXACTLY in line with what the market dictates.

What comparables lead you to believe he's worth $3.5M?

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07-21-2011, 06:02 PM
  #208
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Yeah 4 and 4.2 was on the higher end of what I had expected.

Sauer got a little less than I thought, Boyle got a little more (extra year)

I'd expect Callahan's contract to be similar, unless his agent is really pushing this one and UFA deal.

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07-21-2011, 06:31 PM
  #209
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"I wanted to be in New York, itís the place I live, itís the place I love and I want to be here forever." - Brandon Dubinsky

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07-21-2011, 06:32 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
Does holding out as an RFA without arbitration rights and missing over a week of camp not count? Especially when the deal he eventually caved to was fair value for a 40 point player in his position.
That's one "offense", what's the other?

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07-21-2011, 06:38 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
"I wanted to be in New York, it’s the place I live, it’s the place I love and I want to be here forever." - Brandon Dubinsky
That selfish *****. Trade his ass

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07-21-2011, 06:38 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Overpayment. 2nd line center, just about in his prime, who has scored 50+ points just once and 20+ goals twice. You can argue he will get better, sure, he might, but statistically players hit their prime in terms of scoring at 27, and he is already 25 and will be 26 by the playoffs next season.

A 20 goal scorer / 50 point center is not worth $4.2 million. In my opinion anything above $3.3 or $3.4 is an overpayment. That being said, as others have said, it's not a gross overpayment, but they certainly overpaid him.

Glad to see Dubinsky back though. My only regret is that M. Richards is no longer in our division. We will no longer get to see the Dubinsky vs M. Richards showdown. Oh well, I'm sure he'll find other ways to entertain me.
So... since Dubi will be 26 in the playoffs this coming season, and 27 in the playoffs (ie: end of the year) next season... he still has two FULL years to improve, by your own standards, no? You can't just say he's probably not going to improve anymore because he's already in his prime and then say statistically people are in their prime and stop improving at 27 and since Dubi will be 26 by the playoffs next year, he's already at his peak... doesn't make any sense, you know?

Also, I just think your estimation of a second liner salary is a little low. Dubinsky is a tweener anyhow; fringe first, very good second liner. He may well be on our "first line" this year (does that make you a first liner?). I'd say more realistically second liners, good second liners should come in about 3.6-3.9M and given Dubinsky actually does have a couple of more years to keep improving, and is a high end second liner, who will see first line minutes (and also PKs a lot), it's not very much of an overpayment.

Curious... what do you expect Callahan will get? By your standards he has less room to improve and is a lower end second liner, but very likely could get more than Dubi.

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07-21-2011, 07:01 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
So... since Dubi will be 26 in the playoffs this coming season, and 27 in the playoffs (ie: end of the year) next season... he still has two FULL years to improve, by your own standards, no? You can't just say he's probably not going to improve anymore because he's already in his prime and then say statistically people are in their prime and stop improving at 27 and since Dubi will be 26 by the playoffs next year, he's already at his peak... doesn't make any sense, you know?

Also, I just think your estimation of a second liner salary is a little low. Dubinsky is a tweener anyhow; fringe first, very good second liner. He may well be on our "first line" this year (does that make you a first liner?). I'd say more realistically second liners, good second liners should come in about 3.6-3.9M and given Dubinsky actually does have a couple of more years to keep improving, and is a high end second liner, who will see first line minutes (and also PKs a lot), it's not very much of an overpayment.

Curious... what do you expect Callahan will get? By your standards he has less room to improve and is a lower end second liner, but very likely could get more than Dubi.
Dubi is considered a fringe first liner on OUR team, but I'm not sure he would be on most teams in the league. I consider him a solid second liner when he is on this game and an excellent third liner when he is not.

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07-21-2011, 07:09 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
Dubi is considered a fringe first liner on OUR team, but I'm not sure he would be on most teams in the league. I consider him a solid second liner when he is on this game and an excellent third liner when he is not.
Not a lot of third line 50+ point players in the NHL. Less 60 point ones, which Dubi will almost undoubtedly be this year, with Richards here (barring injury). Overall yes, solid second liner, but when he's not on his game he doesn't become a third liner suddenly; he's a less effective second liner. And he'll probably be a first liner for us this year, and I can think of some other teams where he could be as well. Certainly a top six forward almost everywhere.

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07-21-2011, 07:43 PM
  #215
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07-21-2011, 07:47 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
That's one "offense", what's the other?
If he went ahead with arbitration today.

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07-21-2011, 07:51 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
Dubi is considered a fringe first liner on OUR team, but I'm not sure he would be on most teams in the league. I consider him a solid second liner when he is on this game and an excellent third liner when he is not.
Terribly misguided. Check out the point totals from this season around the league and you'll see that 54 points makes you a low end first liner in this league. Or, conversely, a high end second liner.

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07-21-2011, 07:58 PM
  #218
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Dubinsky!!!!

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07-21-2011, 08:17 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
Terribly misguided. Check out the point totals from this season around the league and you'll see that 54 points makes you a low end first liner in this league. Or, conversely, a high end second liner.
He wouldn't have gotten the most ice time of all forwards on many, if any other teams in this league and most likely would've had his usual 40-45 points.

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07-21-2011, 08:24 PM
  #220
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outstanding deal. 4 years 4 per is right on the money. that kinda money is fair and deserved.

hes an important part of this organization and hes come along way since 3 years ago.

i wasnt a big fan early on but hes proven me wrong. hes still not a finished product but hes a very solid 2nd line player and should be in a good place now.

he just needs to go out and have a great season

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07-21-2011, 08:27 PM
  #221
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I'm totally happy to hear this, as I was 90% sure that it would not go to arbitration.
It makes me feel better about the Callahan signing too, not that I thought there would be any real conflict there either.

I think Brandon is going to pay the Rangers back. He is going to break out even further.

This year has a feeling of team solidarity for me. Things are pointing to a lot of excitement from the core, and then pile the excitement of training camp on top. Looking good.

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07-21-2011, 08:29 PM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line Monster View Post
He wouldn't have gotten the most ice time of all forwards on many, if any other teams in this league and most likely would've had his usual 40-45 points.
40-45 points makes him a typical second line player, in terms of offense.

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07-21-2011, 08:36 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
40-45 points makes him a typical second line player, in terms of offense.
People really tend to struggle with that.

1st line spread (33rd to 66th percentile)... 57-66 points

2nd line spread (33rd to 66th)... 39-44 points

3rd- 25 to 29 and so on.

Of course, some players miss injury time but Dubinsky has been no exception to that recently.

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07-21-2011, 08:43 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
40-45 points makes him a typical second line player, in terms of offense.
Yeah, I was agreeing with the poster xxxZENxxx that said he's a solid second liner. The poster I quoted was saying he's a low end 1st liner/ high end 2nd liner. But whatever, I guess it's a small gripe.

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07-21-2011, 08:52 PM
  #225
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Slightly above average for a slightly above average guy. Not the ideal second line center but doable. Think getting to the playoffs.

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