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(Part 3) Richards/Carter traded: Class of 2003

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07-22-2011, 01:40 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The issue is Homer's inability to learn from his mistakes. Lilja's signing is a classic example. 2 years? Was there a bidding contest for him?

Bo ahead, keep drinking the kool-aid. I'll just sit back and wait to see how this season unfolds.
Translation: "You go ahead and be excited about the Flyers while I sit back pessimistically. If the Flyers suck I'll be able to shove it in all your faces and if they win I'll be here cheering them on like I believed in them all along!"

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07-22-2011, 02:27 PM
  #152
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next year's playoff avatar theme: "i'm drinking the kool-aid." schenn and couturier will be drinking kool-aid straight from the cup

fools. they just keep drinking the kool-aid.

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07-22-2011, 02:33 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Translation: "You go ahead and be excited about the Flyers while I sit back pessimistically. If the Flyers suck I'll be able to shove it in all your faces and if they win I'll be here cheering them on like I believed in them all along!"
Dude how do you have that much sand in your Carle?

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07-22-2011, 02:34 PM
  #154
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Dude how do you have that much sand in your Carle?
It must've all slipped in through my Leighton.

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07-22-2011, 02:42 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Translation: "You go ahead and be excited about the Flyers while I sit back pessimistically. If the Flyers suck I'll be able to shove it in all your faces and if they win I'll be here cheering them on like I believed in them all along!"
There's absolutely nothing pessimistic about her statement. A critical opinion that doesn't jive with your positivity isn't inherently doom-and-gloom.

You guys giving us **** for not liking how the offseason has gone look at everything in a vacuum...this time, you're not even in the right vacuum.

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07-22-2011, 02:48 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
There's absolutely nothing pessimistic about her statement. A critical opinion that doesn't jive with your positivity isn't inherently doom-and-gloom.

You guys giving us **** for not liking how the offseason has gone look at everything in a vacuum...this time, you're not even in the right vacuum.
There's nothing wrong with not liking how the offseason has gone. I hated some of the **** that happened, too. I never would have dreamed Jeff Carter or Mike Richards would've been traded. Still, the constant *****ing is getting tiresome. And calling for Snider to leave? Please.

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07-22-2011, 03:00 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
There's nothing wrong with not liking how the offseason has gone. I hated some of the **** that happened, too. I never would have dreamed Jeff Carter or Mike Richards would've been traded. Still, the constant *****ing is getting tiresome. And calling for Snider to leave? Please.
Snider started this by proclaiming that a goalie would be obtained. Keep your mouth shut, negotiate properly between Bryz and Vokoun and you could have a better cap hit with lesser term. Instead, Bryz gets a load of money without even having to negotiate and Vokoun signs for peanuts with one of our rivals. Great work!

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07-22-2011, 03:02 PM
  #158
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Snider essentially said "Hey! You've absolutely got us by the balls, if you want!" to Bryz's agent.

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07-22-2011, 03:08 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Snider started this by proclaiming that a goalie would be obtained. Keep your mouth shut, negotiate properly between Bryz and Vokoun and you could have a better cap hit with lesser term. Instead, Bryz gets a load of money without even having to negotiate and Vokoun signs for peanuts with one of our rivals. Great work!
And if we wait for free agency and can't sign either, what happens?

Presser:
"Thanks for coming out. We came into the offseason knowing goaltending was our #1 priority. Clearly, we were the only team in the league who realized we needed a goalie. Anyway, our top two targets, Bryzgalov and Vokoun, were snatched away from our grasp within the first hours of free agency. Ultimately, though, we are happy that we came away with a Conn Smythe winner! Philadelphia, please welcome....your new....Fraaaaaanchiiiise goaltender......Jeaaaaan Sebastioooooon....Gigeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeure!"

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07-22-2011, 03:10 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
And if we wait for free agency and can't sign either, what happens?

Presser:
"Thanks for coming out. We came into the offseason knowing goaltending was our #1 priority. Clearly, we were the only team in the league who realized we needed a goalie. Anyway, our top two targets, Bryzgalov and Vokoun, were snatched away from our grasp within the first hours of free agency. Ultimately, though, we are happy that we came away with a Conn Smythe winner! Philadelphia, please welcome....your new....Fraaaaaanchiiiise goaltender......Jeaaaaan Sebastioooooon....Gigeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeure!"
It has NOTHING to do with waiting until free agency, and everything to do with Sniders's poker face being this:



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07-22-2011, 03:20 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It has NOTHING to do with waiting until free agency, and everything to do with Sniders's poker face being this:


How? By saying we were going to fix our goalie issue? By letting Homer trade for Bryz's rights so we could reduce the risk of not getting an elite goalie? By flying Bryz in his private jet do he could feel comfortable and wanted by the team and ownership? You do realize that Bryz was going to ask for at least the amount of money he got here anywhere. Pheonix's GM stated that Bryz wanted to be the highest paid goaltender in the league.

It's frustrating that many of you believe we had to come away with the perfect scenario.

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07-22-2011, 03:28 PM
  #162
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How? By saying we were going to fix our goalie issue? By letting Homer trade for Bryz's rights so we could reduce the risk of not getting an elite goalie? By flying Bryz in his private jet do he could feel comfortable and wanted by the team and ownership? You do realize that Bryz was going to ask for at least the amount of money he got here anywhere. Pheonix's GM stated that Bryz wanted to be the highest paid goaltender in the league.

It's frustrating that many of you believe we had to come away with the perfect scenario.
Yeah, all of those things told Bryz and his agent to ask for the moon because they could rest assured they'd get it.

edit: let's look at it this way. If you walk into a car dealership and tell the dealer that you really want X model, and are willing AND able to pay whatever it takes to get it...you better believe that you won't get any sort of a deal on it, and will probably spend more than you needed to.

The same principle applies in these negotiations.


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07-22-2011, 03:34 PM
  #163
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Calling for Snider to leave isn't such a bad thing at this point. He's 78 years old, and has clearly lost his ****ing marbles.

Necessary? Debatable. Reasonable? Sure.

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07-22-2011, 03:38 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, all of those things told Bryz and his agent to ask for the moon because they could rest assured they'd get it.

edit: let's look at it this way. If you walk into a car dealership and tell the dealer that you really want X model, and are willing AND able to pay whatever it takes to get it...you better believe that you won't get any sort of a deal on it, and will probably spend more than you needed to.

The same principle applies in these negotiations.
My point is that everybody and their mother knew the Flyers needed a goalie. What do we do? Wait it out and possibly not get a goalie in hopes we make Bryz and his agent think we'll decide to give up on another season because we're not willing to pay up for a goaltender? You could have hired an entirely new front office and Bryz's agent would still know we desperately needed a goalie.

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07-22-2011, 03:40 PM
  #165
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My point is that everybody and their mother knew the Flyers needed a goalie. What do we do? Wait it out and possibly not get a goalie in hopes we make Bryz and his agent think we'll decide to give up on another season because we're not willing to pay up for a goaltender? You could have hired an entirely new front office and Bryz's agent would still know we desperately needed a goalie.
Throw some prospects to Florida to get Vokoun's rights when it's clear that he isn't going to sign in Florida (It was pretty clear he wasn't, his rights likely wouldn't have been expensive). Now you have the rights to both marquee goalies, and you have leverage over both of them because neither one knows they are the only option.

Instead, we gave Bryzgalov ALL the leverage in negotiations. That was stupid.

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07-22-2011, 03:45 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Throw some prospects to Florida to get Vokoun's rights when it's clear that he isn't going to sign in Florida (It was pretty clear he wasn't, his rights likely wouldn't have been expensive). Now you have the rights to both marquee goalies, and you have leverage over both of them because neither one knows they are the only option.

Instead, we gave Bryzgalov ALL the leverage in negotiations. That was stupid.
Seriously? You think that's actually a viable option? I'd bet that they'd both say "**** this organization" if they got the rights to both of them to help drive down their prices. Sure, it would be ideal if we could have waited until free agency, felt out the competition, and gotten Bryz or Vokoun on a good deal. However, it's risky as ****, and the same people complaining that Bryz is paid too much would be screaming for Homer's head because he wasn't willing to pay Bryz or Vokoun what they wanted.

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07-22-2011, 03:50 PM
  #167
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Seriously? You think that's actually a viable option? I'd bet that they'd both say "**** this organization" if they got the rights to both of them to help drive down their prices. Sure, it would be ideal if we could have waited until free agency, felt out the competition, and gotten Bryz or Vokoun on a good deal. However, it's risky as ****, and the same people complaining that Bryz is paid too much would be screaming for Homer's head because he wasn't willing to pay Bryz or Vokoun what they wanted.
Or, it would have worked out and we'd have one of them for cheaper than we do now.

The fact remains: Snider couldn't keep his damned mouth shut, and made Homer's job as hard as he possibly could. They should have taken steps to make the process easy, instead of setting themselves up to pay out the nose...which is exactly what the did.

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07-22-2011, 04:01 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Or, it would have worked out and we'd have one of them for cheaper than we do now.

The fact remains: Snider couldn't keep his damned mouth shut, and made Homer's job as hard as he possibly could. They should have taken steps to make the process easy, instead of setting themselves up to pay out the nose...which is exactly what the did.
You could have cut out Snider's tongue before the process and nothing would have changed. It didn't matter if he said it or not; we needed a goalie and everyone knew it.

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07-22-2011, 04:07 PM
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You could have cut out Snider's tongue before the process and nothing would have changed. It didn't matter if he said it or not; we needed a goalie and everyone knew it.
Dude, how can you say that? He made the process as hard as he could. Everyone "knew" we needed a goalie in the previous offseason, and we didn't sign one. If he had just shut the hell up, it would've been reasonable for everyone to believe we would continue rolling with Boosh and Bob...especially because they did fine for most of the season and were an improvement over the previous year. Most people didn't expect Washington to change their goaltending, for instance, yet they did...and they made out like bandits, because they didn't act like a bunch of morons about it...I happen to think that GMGM is inferior to Holmgren, too.

If you're fine with the organization using completely idiotic negotiating practices, fine. That's your call. I'm NOT ok with it, and hope that from now on Snider and the rest of the organization doesn't tell the entire world what their plans are, because it's completely freaking stupid. In a cap world, they need to be trying to save every last possible dollar on every contract, not pull this sort of crap.

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07-22-2011, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Dude, how can you say that? He made the process as hard as he could. Everyone "knew" we needed a goalie in the previous offseason, and we didn't sign one. If he had just shut the hell up, it would've been reasonable for everyone to believe we would continue rolling with Boosh and Bob...especially because they did fine for most of the season and were an improvement over the previous year. Most people didn't expect Washington to change their goaltending, for instance, yet they did...and they made out like bandits, because they didn't act like a bunch of morons about it...I happen to think that GMGM is inferior to Holmgren, too.

If you're fine with the organization using completely idiotic negotiating practices, fine. That's your call. I'm NOT ok with it, and hope that from now on Snider and the rest of the organization doesn't tell the entire world what their plans are, because it's completely freaking stupid. In a cap world, they need to be trying to save every last possible dollar on every contract, not pull this sort of crap.
Snider did say the goaltending would be fixed. Do you remember the details? He said whether that be through, trade, free agency, or picking a #1 goaltender in training camp.

Aside from that, everyone "knew" we needed a goalie last season, and they laughed as we came away with nothing. Our hand was already shown after another failed year of "the team makes the goalie."

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07-22-2011, 04:15 PM
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Snider did say the goaltending would be fixed. Do you remember the details? He said whether that be through, trade, free agency, or picking a #1 goaltender in training camp.

Aside from that, everyone "knew" we needed a goalie last season, and they laughed as we came away with nothing. Our hand was already shown after another failed year of "the team makes the goalie."
We came away with nothing only because Homer panicked and signed MFL.

And yes. That's the point...Snider said that. He shouldn't have. It was completely stupid. That's what I'm saying...he shouldn't have said that publicly. He should have said that to Homer and Lukko, and nobody else. It does nothing but hamstring yourself in negotiations.

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07-22-2011, 04:20 PM
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We came away with nothing only because Homer panicked and signed MFL.

And yes. That's the point...Snider said that. He shouldn't have. It was completely stupid. That's what I'm saying...he shouldn't have said that publicly. He should have said that to Homer and Lukko, and nobody else. It does nothing but hamstring yourself in negotiations.
I understand what you're saying, but I truly, 100%, absolutely, positively feel like his comments made no difference. For the fifth time, Bryz and everyone else knew we either had to sign a goalie or concede another season. It was no secret.

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07-22-2011, 04:25 PM
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I understand what you're saying, but I truly, 100%, absolutely, positively feel like his comments made no difference. For the fifth time, Bryz and everyone else knew we either had to sign a goalie or concede another season. It was no secret.
The only reason everyone KNEW we were going to shake up the goaltending is because Snider came out and told everyone we were going to do that.

He should have said "Bob is young, but we have faith in him growing up and being more prepared next season." Then he should have gone to Homer and said "GET BRYZ."

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07-22-2011, 04:29 PM
  #174
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I understand what you're saying, but I truly, 100%, absolutely, positively feel like his comments made no difference. For the fifth time, Bryz and everyone else knew we either had to sign a goalie or concede another season. It was no secret.
After the embarrassment that was the goalie carrousel in net during the 11 games the Flyers played, I think even a blind person would have been able to read between whatever crap the front office spewed out. Regardless they were getting a goalie, this off season. I don't think the owner saying they want one had much to do with it, all Bryz's agent would have to do in negotiations is pull up the replays from the post season and wait for the $$$ to go up.

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07-22-2011, 04:32 PM
  #175
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My main problem is that they made no attempt to help themselves in negotiations. None at all. This isn't 1990...that crap is just dumb.

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