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Ducks - Jets ("the Bobby")

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Old
07-20-2011, 01:22 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Lol. You wouldn't trade Kane for Ryan straight up? Dear god...

You do realize Bobby Ryan is a power forward right?

Ryan
6'2 218lbs
09/10 -127 hits
10/11- 156 hits
3 career fights

Kane
6'2 190lbs
09/10 - 97 hits
10/11- 154 hits
4 career fights
I can't argue against the hit stats, but from what I have seen, Ryan does not play as physical as Kane. That's just my opinion. I have also seen many people project Kane as a power forward, but I have not seen people project Ryan as one. Not saying he isn't or people have not said it, I just have not read it.
And you are comparing 24 year old Ryan and 19 year old Kane. How much bigger and physical do you think Kane will be in 5 years?

As to your dear God comment, do you not understand the point I am making? If the Jets were going on a cup run next year I would trade Kane for Ryan. But they are not.You are trying to gauge value in a vacuum.

What if I said that in a hypothetical situation, that I wouldn't trade say Marchand for Gretzky? You are acting shocked, but ignoring the fact that in this hypothetical situation Marchand is 19, Gretzky is 40, and the team with Marchand is not gunning for the cup in the next season.

So yeah, to reiterate, at this point if I was the GM of the Jets, I would not trade Kane for Ryan.

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Old
07-20-2011, 01:46 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I can't argue against the hit stats, but from what I have seen, Ryan does not play as physical as Kane. That's just my opinion. I have also seen many people project Kane as a power forward, but I have not seen people project Ryan as one. Not saying he isn't or people have not said it, I just have not read it.
And you are comparing 24 year old Ryan and 19 year old Kane. How much bigger and physical do you think Kane will be in 5 years?

As to your dear God comment, do you not understand the point I am making? If the Jets were going on a cup run next year I would trade Kane for Ryan. But they are not.You are trying to gauge value in a vacuum.

What if I said that in a hypothetical situation, that I wouldn't trade say Marchand for Gretzky? You are acting shocked, but ignoring the fact that in this hypothetical situation Marchand is 19, Gretzky is 40, and the team with Marchand is not gunning for the cup in the next season.

So yeah, to reiterate, at this point if I was the GM of the Jets, I would not trade Kane for Ryan.
Yeah because a 21year age gap is the same as 4 years? Let's be serious. All you Jets fans seem to think Ryan is 30 or something. The kid is 24.... Why can't he play until he's 37-40? You guys keep using Kane being 4 years younger as the basis of your argument. So basically you are telling me you are looking at this deal 13-16 years from now... Nice!

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Old
07-20-2011, 02:04 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Yeah because a 21year age gap is the same as 4 years? Let's be serious. All you Jets fans seem to think Ryan is 30 or something. The kid is 24.... Why can't he play until he's 37-40? You guys keep using Kane being 4 years younger as the basis of your argument. So basically you are telling me you are looking at this deal 13-16 years from now... Nice!
It was a hypothetical example to prove a point. Where are you inferring any of the above?

In no way am I trying to make the point that a 21 year age gap is the same as 4, nor am I looking at a deal 13-16 years from now. You are seriously just trying to provoke an argument if you can't see that.

What I am saying, and what I used the example for, is that trades cannot be made in a fictional situation where there are no external factors. There are always things like age, money, potential, team needs, etc, that play a part. You are trying to ignore those factors, and I am trying to use them to explain why I think it's a bad deal for the Jets.

But just to make it simple for you, if the Jets were a team that was playing for the Stanley Cup next year, and Ryan could help with that, I would trade Kane for Ryan. Knowing that that is not the case, I would not trade Kane for Ryan because IMO I think that Kane at 24 is going to be better than Ryan was at 24. Simple as that. And I think that it makes better sense for the Jets to have Kane because it's around that time (hopefully), that the team might be able to compete.

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07-20-2011, 02:13 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
It was a hypothetical example to prove a point. Where are you inferring any of the above?

In no way am I trying to make the point that a 21 year age gap is the same as 4, nor am I looking at a deal 13-16 years from now. You are seriously just trying to provoke an argument if you can't see that.

What I am saying, and what I used the example for, is that trades cannot be made in a fictional situation where there are no external factors. There are always things like age, money, potential, team needs, etc, that play a part. You are trying to ignore those factors, and I am trying to use them to explain why I think it's a bad deal for the Jets.

But just to make it simple for you, if the Jets were a team that was playing for the Stanley Cup next year, and Ryan could help with that, I would trade Kane for Ryan. Knowing that that is not the case, I would not trade Kane for Ryan because IMO I think that Kane at 24 is going to be better than Ryan was at 24. Simple as that. And I think that it makes better sense for the Jets to have Kane because it's around that time (hopefully), that the team might be able to compete.
Being that Ryan has posted an extremely high amount of 11pts in 12 regular season games as a 24 y/o you're probably right.. Now if you actually let him play this season when he will be 24 i'll beg the differ...

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Old
07-20-2011, 03:04 PM
  #180
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lol at prospoal

my counter: Stapleton for Etem Etem

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Old
07-20-2011, 03:11 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Being that Ryan has posted an extremely high amount of 11pts in 12 regular season games as a 24 y/o you're probably right.. Now if you actually let him play this season when he will be 24 i'll beg the differ...
I am going to assume that you know my point. Otherwise, wow.

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Old
07-20-2011, 04:35 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Nope not at all. You're a Kane homer, I'm a Ryan homer, we most likely won't agree.
then agree to disagree for now, and we'll find out who was right in ~15 years

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07-20-2011, 06:00 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
then agree to disagree for now, and we'll find out who was right in ~15 years
Okay, so we will bring this thread back in 2025 and see who was right .

I think we can all agree though, as Ducks and Jets fans, that Teemu Selanne rocks.

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07-20-2011, 06:04 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I can't argue against the hit stats, but from what I have seen, Ryan does not play as physical as Kane. That's just my opinion. I have also seen many people project Kane as a power forward, but I have not seen people project Ryan as one. Not saying he isn't or people have not said it, I just have not read it.
And you are comparing 24 year old Ryan and 19 year old Kane. How much bigger and physical do you think Kane will be in 5 years?

As to your dear God comment, do you not understand the point I am making? If the Jets were going on a cup run next year I would trade Kane for Ryan. But they are not.You are trying to gauge value in a vacuum.

What if I said that in a hypothetical situation, that I wouldn't trade say Marchand for Gretzky? You are acting shocked, but ignoring the fact that in this hypothetical situation Marchand is 19, Gretzky is 40, and the team with Marchand is not gunning for the cup in the next season.

So yeah, to reiterate, at this point if I was the GM of the Jets, I would not trade Kane for Ryan.
If this is true you really need to educate yourself more about the rest of the league or stay out of conversations about players from the rest of the league because saying that is about on a par with saying you didn't know Roy was a butterfly goalie.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-power-forward-ranking/

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/7/12...atistical-blip

Maybe even this one, cunningly hidden on a website nobody here has ever heard of

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...p20_prospects/

Quote:
1. (1), Bobby Ryan, RW - 19
Grade: 8.5C, Projection: First line power forward

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Old
07-20-2011, 08:02 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If this is true you really need to educate yourself more about the rest of the league or stay out of conversations about players from the rest of the league because saying that is about on a par with saying you didn't know Roy was a butterfly goalie.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-power-forward-ranking/

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/7/12...atistical-blip

Maybe even this one, cunningly hidden on a website nobody here has ever heard of

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...p20_prospects/
HAAHA owned.

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Old
07-20-2011, 08:04 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Okay, so we will bring this thread back in 2025 and see who was right .

I think we can all agree though, as Ducks and Jets fans, that Teemu Selanne rocks.
Rhodes and I were Thrashers fans. So where the heck does that leave us?

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07-20-2011, 09:31 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If this is true you really need to educate yourself more about the rest of the league or stay out of conversations about players from the rest of the league because saying that is about on a par with saying you didn't know Roy was a butterfly goalie.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-power-forward-ranking/

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/7/12...atistical-blip

Maybe even this one, cunningly hidden on a website nobody here has ever heard of

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...p20_prospects/
Easy genius, I didn't say that he couldn't be a power forward, just that to me it doesn't seem like he is projected in that role or asked to play that role.

And if you are going to go by those 3 articles as gospel, why in the HF Boards one is Ryan listed as a power forward, while Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner are listed as just top 6 forwards?

That article is not exactly the bastion of perfection now is it? Or do you not consider Getzlaf, Perry, nor Penner as power forwards?

And the Copper and Blue article you linked to? They are just using a formula of points to hits. Do you really consider Michael Ryder, Alexi Ponikarovski, Jonathan Cheechoo, David Booth, Andrei Kostitsyn, Chuck Kobasew, and Guillaume Lattendresse power forwards?

If you do, maybe you really need to educate yourself more about the rest of the league or stay out of conversations about players from the rest of the league because saying that is about on a par with saying you didn't know Roy was a butterfly goalie.

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07-20-2011, 10:03 PM
  #188
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Wow, Ducks take this and run !

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Old
07-20-2011, 10:04 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Easy genius, I didn't say that he couldn't be a power forward, just that to me it doesn't seem like he is projected in that role or asked to play that role.

And if you are going to go by those 3 articles as gospel, why in the HF Boards one is Ryan listed as a power forward, while Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner are listed as just top 6 forwards?

That article is not exactly the bastion of perfection now is it? Or do you not consider Getzlaf, Perry, nor Penner as power forwards?

And the Copper and Blue article you linked to? They are just using a formula of points to hits. Do you really consider Michael Ryder, Alexi Ponikarovski, Jonathan Cheechoo, David Booth, Andrei Kostitsyn, Chuck Kobasew, and Guillaume Lattendresse power forwards?

If you do, maybe you really need to educate yourself more about the rest of the league or stay out of conversations about players from the rest of the league because saying that is about on a par with saying you didn't know Roy was a butterfly goalie.
Bobby Ryan has always been listed as a power forward, has always been discussed as a power forward, and if you're unaware of that you probably should steer clear of discussions about him because it's clear you know next to nothing about the player. I haven't seen Kane play much, you may have noticed I haven't spoken about his abilities in this thread?

YOU said you had never heard of anyone referring to him as being or projecting as a power forward. A 10 second google search yielded you your results. The fact that due to their play styles and questions about their ability to perform at the NHL level how HF would categorize Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner (and they were projected as top 6 forwards, they ARE top 6 forwards, many question if Perry is really a power forward, and Penner has never played as dirty as he should at his size) has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Ryan has ALWAYS been projected as a power forward.

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07-20-2011, 10:45 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Bobby Ryan has always been listed as a power forward, has always been discussed as a power forward, and if you're unaware of that you probably should steer clear of discussions about him because it's clear you know next to nothing about the player. I haven't seen Kane play much, you may have noticed I haven't spoken about his abilities in this thread?

YOU said you had never heard of anyone referring to him as being or projecting as a power forward. A 10 second google search yielded you your results. The fact that due to their play styles and questions about their ability to perform at the NHL level how HF would categorize Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner (and they were projected as top 6 forwards, they ARE top 6 forwards, many question if Perry is really a power forward, and Penner has never played as dirty as he should at his size) has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Ryan has ALWAYS been projected as a power forward.
I also admitted that just because I hadn't read it, didn't mean that it wasn't possible.

I can admit that I was wrong and that Ryan has been identified and projected as a power forward. I've never really thought of him that way. I have been impressed with the skill side, and even though he plays physical, I always thought it was his skill that set him apart. Cool?

It doesn't change my point about Kane, and where I think he will be when he is Ryan's current age.

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07-20-2011, 10:46 PM
  #191
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This proposal even makes Leafs fans chuckle. That's saying something.

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07-22-2011, 05:38 AM
  #192
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Rhodes and I were Thrashers fans. So where the heck does that leave us?
go nashville?

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07-22-2011, 10:03 PM
  #193
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I love how people think we'll give up Ryan for a decent prospect and a 1st.

The OP is just about what Murray would expect coming back to Anaheim. We're not going to give up one of our young stars for scrap.

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07-22-2011, 10:49 PM
  #194
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I love how people think we'll give up Ryan for a decent prospect and a 1st.

The OP is just about what Murray would expect coming back to Anaheim. We're not going to give up one of our young stars for scrap.
Ok...

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07-23-2011, 12:17 AM
  #195
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So basically this whole thread begins with a ****** proposal and continues with thrasher/jets fans who know very little to nothing about Bobby Ryan and try and convince people why he sucks so much.... what a waste of bandwidth (and this is coming from someone who spends 80% of the time in The Lounge and another 19% in the Ducks OT Thread).

Bet they didn't even know his real last name is Stevenson

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07-23-2011, 12:49 AM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Blockbuster...


E. Kane
A. Burmistrov
Z. Bogosian


:thrashers
B. Ryan
F. Beauchemin
R. Rakell (2011 1st)


Anaheim gets a promising young centerman in Burmistrov to take over 2nd line duties after Koivu. Kane can help fill some of the void Ryan leaves. Bogosian is an excellent young RH defenseman that could use a change of scenery and will slot in well with Fowler.

Winnipeg gets the new face of their franchise in Bobby Ryan. A solid top 4 cup winning defenseman that can log big minutes and make up for the loss of Bogo. They also receive and extremely young talented 2way player who raised from obscurity bursting on to the scene in the WJC. Rakell stepped up in a big way filling a huge void for Sweden when Landeskog went down with injury...


Have at it....
Kane has the potential to be = to Ryan
Burmistov>>>Rakell
Bogosian>>>>Beauchemin


Besides, deals involving this many star players never happen.

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07-23-2011, 01:07 AM
  #197
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So basically this whole thread begins with a ****** proposal and continues with thrasher/jets fans who know very little to nothing about Bobby Ryan and try and convince people why he sucks so much.... what a waste of bandwidth (and this is coming from someone who spends 80% of the time in The Lounge and another 19% in the Ducks OT Thread).

Bet they didn't even know his real last name is Stevenson
Well it's not like Ducks fans know a lot about Kane. lol No one said Ryan sucks either.

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07-23-2011, 02:18 AM
  #198
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Well it's not like Ducks fans know a lot about Kane. lol No one said Ryan sucks either.
If anything the majority of ducks fans have admitted they have not seen a lot of Kane and they're Ryan homers which is a lot more honest than what most Kane homer's have admitted. So I eagerly await your next "I know you are but what am I" response or another "Ryan is not REALLY a power forward IMO because that's all that matters is my opinion and to hell with hockey experts" or "Ryan plays on the 1st pp unit because I saw it posted somewhere"


Last edited by duckaroosky: 07-23-2011 at 02:25 AM.
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