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Rangers Re-sign Brandon Dubinsky (4 years, $4.2M per)

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07-22-2011, 11:20 AM
  #251
Panfork
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
I love this fascination with Dubinsky all of the sudden by the whole HF community.
What fascination? I haven't been keeping up with the thread on the main board.

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07-22-2011, 11:20 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
There are 30 teams in this league. A line consists of 3 forwards. That's 90 players that are top-line forwards. For this past season, Brandon Dubinsky is sitting comfortably at #70 in scoring for forwards. Count in the fact that he hits, plays good defensively, and plays pretty chippy, I'd say he's definitely a 1st liner. Just because he's not a flashy, 70pt player, doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered a 1st line talent.

But naw, Dubinsky is a 2nd liner. Just like Rick Nash is an elite 1st liner. Those 12 extra points put him 2 notches ahead of Dubinsky.
I think it's pretty obvious that when most people talk about what a 1st liner, 2nd liner etc is they mean on a good team.

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07-22-2011, 11:41 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Blue Line Monster View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that when most people talk about what a 1st liner, 2nd liner etc is they mean on a good team.
Depending on how "good" you mean when you say "good team", I still maintain the opinion that Dubinsky is a 1st line LW on a good team.

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07-22-2011, 12:09 PM
  #254
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I think people’s opinion of first / second liner is seriously out of whack. Seems to me many people seem to think that a first liner makes 80+ points. And a second liner makes 60+ points.

But looking at last year’s stats, there were only 9 players with 80+ points. So of all the 30 teams, and 90 first liners, there were only 9. A HUGE “shortage” of first liners according to that definition.

And last year there were only 34 forwards with 60+ points. So of all the 30 teams, and 180 first/ second liners, there were only 47. Again, a huge shortage.

Which tells me those definitions are simply wrong, dreadfully wrong.

A simple points based definition without taking into account injuries, etc - the 90th forward in the league had 49 points. The 180th forward scored only 34 points. So simply by analyzing those numbers, we have a fact based definition of first and second liners. I don’t think it should be that simple. And I do think it is fair to want to speak about a first liner “on a good team”. But these assumptions that players are not first/second liners unless they score something like 60+ points is simply very very off.

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07-22-2011, 12:57 PM
  #255
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If Dubi was a first line talent he wouldn't falter when playing with top line talent as he has 3 years now. Dubi is too inconsistant to be a top line player, however if he can dump those droughts where he doesn't score this could change. He has the physical package in my opinion but does the talent match that?

Regardless he is a solid player and i'm glad to have him back in the fold.

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07-22-2011, 12:59 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line Monster View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that when most people talk about what a 1st liner, 2nd liner etc is they mean on a good team.
Milan Lucic and David Krejci both scored 62 points. Are they not first liners in this league?

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07-22-2011, 01:03 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Milan Lucic and David Krejci both scored 62 points. Are they not first liners in this league?
Lucic has done that once so i'm gonna say no to him.

Krajci is talented and has put up similar numbers in the past so I will say yes to him.

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07-22-2011, 01:08 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Lucic has done that once so i'm gonna say no to him.

Krajci is talented and has put up similar numbers in the past so I will say yes to him.
Fair enough, but because of everything else he brought to the table he was more than adequate on the first line and helped bring Boston the Cup.

If Dubinsky is on the top line with Richards and Gaborik, it's not a travesty in the least.

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07-22-2011, 01:10 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
If Dubi was a first line talent he wouldn't falter when playing with top line talent as he has 3 years now. Dubi is too inconsistant to be a top line player, however if he can dump those droughts where he doesn't score this could change. He has the physical package in my opinion but does the talent match that?

Regardless he is a solid player and i'm glad to have him back in the fold.
While Dubinsky is not necessarily a "legitimate" first line talent, I wouldn't go as far as to say that he faltered when he played with the likes of Gaborik and Jagr. He has held his own with both of them and didn't look out of place. Jagr is very selective about his linemates and wouldn't have wanted to play with Dubinsky if he didn't think Dubi was capable of keeping up.

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07-22-2011, 01:16 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
While Dubinsky is not necessarily a "legitimate" first line talent, I wouldn't go as far as to say that he faltered when he played with the likes of Gaborik and Jagr. He has held his own with both of them and didn't look out of place. Jagr is very selective about his linemates and wouldn't have wanted to play with Dubinsky if he didn't think Dubi was capable of keeping up.
Maybe he is at the point in his career he has to stop "keeping up" and start to excel on the top line, that to me is the difference. He had me excited at the start of last season as I thought he had gotten there, but the droughts came back starting after November.


Last edited by Radek27: 07-22-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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07-22-2011, 01:35 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
He was already a phenomenon with the Hurricanes fans, taking part in the least funny joke in the HF community.
Greatest GDT ever...not to mention the greatest Aaron Ward video (2nd vid in the gdt).

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07-22-2011, 01:37 PM
  #262
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Nash, Doan, Hemsky... it's the class of player that's overrated. They're good, but not to the level that so many of the league perceive. If they played in more contentious markets, they'd be brought right back down to Earth. Playing in Columbus, Phoenix, Edmonton... no one cares one way or the other about those teams. Yet guys like M. Richards in Philly get roasted for having tremendous all around games. Jagr was crapped on daily here. It's all about the perception of your market and no one is threatened by those.

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07-22-2011, 02:28 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Milan Lucic and David Krejci both scored 62 points. Are they not first liners in this league?
No, they are not! Savard was the one. Boston had no business to win the Cup. They just had an insane goalie with insane SV% (except for a few bad games).
Zherdev had 60 points. He wanted Dubi's 2011 money. Was he far off?

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07-22-2011, 02:30 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No, they are not! Savard was the one. Boston had no business to win the Cup. They just had an insane goalie with insane SV% (except for a few bad games).
Zherdev had 60 points. He wanted Dubi's 2011 money. Was he far off?
But they did, that's all that matters. They have a top line of 60 point 2-way forwards which fits their team identity perfectly, and they won the Cup.

Savard scored 10 points for them last season.

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07-22-2011, 02:47 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
But they did, that's all that matters. They have a top line of 60 point 2-way forwards which fits their team identity perfectly, and they won the Cup.

Savard scored 10 points for them last season.
I know. I do not want Boston model here, nor do I care about team identity if it's just geared toward results. Savard is a true talent, while the other two are not so much. Points or not. i
If the team can win the Cup having just Thomas, Chara and perhaps Kaberle, then there is something wrong with NHL. (BTW I didn't liked 1993 Habs or 1996 Buffalo either. I admire both Roy and Hasek, but those were blue colar groups).

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07-22-2011, 02:57 PM
  #266
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Dubinsky is working out at the Rangers facility today in Greenburgh

Quote:
Dubi on playing with No. 19: "I'm sure I'll get the opportunity," but acknowledges great chemistry with Callahan and Anisimov.
https://twitter.com/#!/stevezipay/st...95025546788865

Quote:
Dubi: "If there's somebody else who can jump in and play with those two (Richards & Gaborik) and contribute, why not? It'll make us deeper"
https://twitter.com/#!/stevezipay/st...95396075814912

Quote:
Dubi: "I said right from the get-go that this is where I always wanted to be...I want to be here...(the #NYR) want me here...I'm so happy"
https://twitter.com/#!/thenyrangers/...94648973803520

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07-22-2011, 06:24 PM
  #267
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Fuoch spoke to Dubinsky today

http://www.msg.com/videos/brandon-du...ng-in-new-york

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07-22-2011, 07:51 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I know. I do not want Boston model here, nor do I care about team identity if it's just geared toward results. Savard is a true talent, while the other two are not so much. Points or not. i
If the team can win the Cup having just Thomas, Chara and perhaps Kaberle, then there is something wrong with NHL. (BTW I didn't liked 1993 Habs or 1996 Buffalo either. I admire both Roy and Hasek, but those were blue colar groups).
The Boston model involves never taking a shift off and defense first approach. It may not be pretty, but it's effective.

I don't care anyway, I want to see the Rangers hoist the cup so badly.

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07-22-2011, 08:21 PM
  #269
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Very good deal. If Dubi takes his game to another level next year playing alongside Gaborik and Richards this deal will become a bargain the same way Girardi became a bargain.

Lets get Callahan signed.

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07-23-2011, 03:32 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by N9Y4R View Post
It is so frustrating to read this thread and especially the thread in the main board. People have absolutely no concept of what kind of point production 1st, 2nd, 3rd line players should be producing. And that is not even taking into account all the play that does not necessarily show up on the all-mighty stat sheet. People think players need to be producing 90pts to be 1st liners, 70pts to be 2nd liners, and so on. It's just ridiculous, how is it possible people still just have no clue.

And OMG a LW taking FO's, WTF the sky is falling!
Good point.

Point production has alot to do with time on ice. The better forwards play, the more ice time they get. Forwards with the most ice time usually garner the most points. Dubi led all forwards in TOI and hence got the most points. It would be hard to argue he was not a first liner for us last year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...QXEMi5xyhTOMiM

Dubinsky could score 120 goals in the next 4 years playing with Richards. 5 on 5. PP. Top 6 forwards in arbitration years and approaching group III years are worth $4M plus.
Most likely Dubi will stick with AA and Cally. Don't forget how good they looked together. Arty definitely raised Dubi's and Cally's game significantly last year and they would be the first to admit it. Expect AA to continue to make that line successful. And I would not be surprised if they remained our top line (in time on ice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
There are 30 teams in this league. A line consists of 3 forwards. That's 90 players that are top-line forwards. For this past season, Brandon Dubinsky is sitting comfortably at #70 in scoring for forwards. Count in the fact that he hits, plays good defensively, and plays pretty chippy, I'd say he's definitely a 1st liner. Just because he's not a flashy, 70pt player, doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered a 1st line talent.

But naw, Dubinsky is a 2nd liner. Just like Rick Nash is an elite 1st liner. Those 12 extra points put him 2 notches ahead of Dubinsky.
It's all relative. Yes Dubi was a first liner last year. But now with Richards here,.. he might get the most TOI. Hell, Mike Richards of Philly last year played on the 3rd line!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Milan Lucic and David Krejci both scored 62 points. Are they not first liners in this league?
They both had the most minutes on the ice for their positions and both had the most points. In my mind, that makes them Bostons first liners last year.

Regardless whether or not Dubi is a first liner, I'm looking forward to this season like no other. With the pack line getting back together we're guarranteed a strong productive line, no matter what Gabby and Richards do.


Last edited by ohbaby: 07-23-2011 at 04:20 AM.
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Old
07-23-2011, 04:05 AM
  #271
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People here have some warped ideas of what makes a player a 1/2 liner. It's not that clear cut, and points arent the only consideration, though they are a huge one for the top line.

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07-23-2011, 04:31 AM
  #272
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I think it's fairly simple. Minutes played. Your best players, will play the most.

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07-23-2011, 06:11 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by abev View Post
You would think by reading your comments that there is a very definitive formula for assembling a good team. It just kills you that you have to give Sather credit (you don't). But what may be toughest to swallow is that maybe Sather stayed the same but the landscape changed.
It should kill him Sather screwed this team in ways that no other team in the NHL has beenscrewed in the past. At one point he had 3 out of the top 5 worst contacts (K Gomez extend to top 10ish) in hockey two of whicha re still on the books so this is fairly recent history. The trend was clearly showing last summer and slightly before that that there was hope...as of this year I'm willing to say good job Sather but I certainly wouldn't expct everyone to yet. I've neither forgiven no forgotten however i AM willing to hope based one evidence.

I could swear BR was being talked about last summer so if you WERE the first (doubtful) then you are waaaay off on the timeframe. Not to subtle selfpat on the back lol.

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07-23-2011, 06:17 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Overpayment. 2nd line center, just about in his prime, who has scored 50+ points just once and 20+ goals twice. You can argue he will get better, sure, he might, but statistically players hit their prime in terms of scoring at 27, and he is already 25 and will be 26 by the playoffs next season.

A 20 goal scorer / 50 point center is not worth $4.2 million. In my opinion anything above $3.3 or $3.4 is an overpayment. That being said, as others have said, it's not a gross overpayment, but they certainly overpaid him.

Glad to see Dubinsky back though. My only regret is that M. Richards is no longer in our division. We will no longer get to see the Dubinsky vs M. Richards showdown. Oh well, I'm sure he'll find other ways to entertain me.
I was thinking of replying to this and then I realized you don't even know what position he played or how many goals he scored or do you subtract goals tht are empty netters inwhich case do you do that for all players? And if you do do you look at things like injuries, line mates, hits, blocks, leadership, potential, etc. No I guess not.

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