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Qualifying offers to Bailey, Comeau & 4 others ** See Post # 82**

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07-20-2011, 01:48 PM
  #101
blitzkriegs
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Originally Posted by JPIsles21 View Post
Circumstances were different with Bailey. Bailey, at the time, may very well have been one of the best 12 forwards the Isles had on that roster. That was more of a poor developmental decision. There is no evidence of that being a financial decision. Snow and staff thought he was ready and brought him up.

Signing Ehrhoff would have been pure salary (not just cap, as is the case with Nino). While Wang has definitely not shown the willingness to spend to the max, his "cheapness" is far overrated on these boards. And the fact that a team would rush a prospect just to not spend real dollars on a place holder is detrimental to the health of a franchise and poor asset management.

Wang has also shown the willingness to spend a bit of money as witnessed by the Isles trying to sign marquee dmen over the last couple of years. However, nobody seems to want to take his money. I'm under the impression that this is being misread as gross "cheapness."
Never said he's cheap. However, he's lowered his overhead to the bare minimum under the rebuild. Essentially, if we are gonna stink, might as well not lose anymore $ than I have to. That's fine, but see what happens in a competitive market? Dilute the fanbase and the attractiveness of the franchise to new recruits.

There is no secret that Wang has used buyouts and bonus clauses to meet the floor minimum the past several years when the floor was LOWER. Now that it's higher, one certainly has evidence to predict he would more than likely engage in "fuzzy" accounting to make it happen so he limits his cash burn. Again, in the rules, but...

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07-20-2011, 02:23 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Never said he's cheap. However, he's lowered his overhead to the bare minimum under the rebuild. Essentially, if we are gonna stink, might as well not lose anymore $ than I have to. That's fine, but see what happens in a competitive market? Dilute the fanbase and the attractiveness of the franchise to new recruits.

There is no secret that Wang has used buyouts and bonus clauses to meet the floor minimum the past several years when the floor was LOWER. Now that it's higher, one certainly has evidence to predict he would more than likely engage in "fuzzy" accounting to make it happen so he limits his cash burn. Again, in the rules, but...
Just because something happens a certain way, does not mean it was intended. The Isles have used buyouts and bonuses to reach the cap floor. However, since it's been well documented that the Isles made significant offers to players that FIT needs (most notably dmen like Martin, Hamhuis, and Ehrhoff), only to be spurned. I don't think there's a conscious effort to spend the least amount of money. I truly believe Snow's strategy is to make big pitches to players he feels will make a difference, and when those plans fail, they turn internally to those in the system.

Whether you buy into it or not, the strategy is clear:

Play as many homegrown guys as possible, and if you make the playoffs, great. If the core you built isn't good enough, then you get another high pick to add to your core. The management is against quick fixes and signing grossly overrated players to bad contracts. This isn't the same thing as 'save money everywhere you can.'

Furthermore, I think Wang realizes that if last year's Isles team made the playoffs, this August 1 vote would be more of a shoo-in than it is right now. He and Snow could have easily spent an extra 20 million on random players last year to guarantee a playoff spot last year. But they just simply don't believe that spending money on UFAs leads to sustained success. Wang wasn't hesitant to make a splash when he first bought the team by mortgaging a lot of his future (Chara, Spezza, Connolly) to acquire Yashin and Peca, and their subsequent contracts.

The Isles management as a whole have gotten smarter. They're seemingly making offers to players that they need (Ehrhoff, Reasoner), and are no longer in the business of making a splash for the sake of making a splash. This line of reasoning, unwillingness to part with top prospects, and UFA's reluctance to sign here has unfortunately made it seem like Wang is willing to penny-pinch to the point of rushing prospects to reach cap floor.

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07-20-2011, 04:57 PM
  #103
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Comeau Comparable

Comeau was 77 24 22 46 -17 (born '86)
Purcell was 81 17 34 51 5 (born '85)


Purcell agreed to a 2-year, $4.725 million deal (via Nick Kypreos) a hefty raise from the $750,000 he made last season.

Not that he didn't deserve a raise, with career highs of 17 goals, 34 assists and 51 points in 81 games last season for the Lightning. But his real value was in the postseason: For all the chatter about Sean Bergenheim(notes) being a playoff revelation, Purcell had 17 points in 18 games during the Bolts' run to the conference finals.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy

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07-20-2011, 05:25 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPIsles21 View Post
Just because something happens a certain way, does not mean it was intended. The Isles have used buyouts and bonuses to reach the cap floor. However, since it's been well documented that the Isles made significant offers to players that FIT needs (most notably dmen like Martin, Hamhuis, and Ehrhoff), only to be spurned. I don't think there's a conscious effort to spend the least amount of money. I truly believe Snow's strategy is to make big pitches to players he feels will make a difference, and when those plans fail, they turn internally to those in the system.

Whether you buy into it or not, the strategy is clear:

Play as many homegrown guys as possible, and if you make the playoffs, great. If the core you built isn't good enough, then you get another high pick to add to your core. The management is against quick fixes and signing grossly overrated players to bad contracts. This isn't the same thing as 'save money everywhere you can.'

Furthermore, I think Wang realizes that if last year's Isles team made the playoffs, this August 1 vote would be more of a shoo-in than it is right now. He and Snow could have easily spent an extra 20 million on random players last year to guarantee a playoff spot last year. But they just simply don't believe that spending money on UFAs leads to sustained success. Wang wasn't hesitant to make a splash when he first bought the team by mortgaging a lot of his future (Chara, Spezza, Connolly) to acquire Yashin and Peca, and their subsequent contracts.

The Isles management as a whole have gotten smarter. They're seemingly making offers to players that they need (Ehrhoff, Reasoner), and are no longer in the business of making a splash for the sake of making a splash. This line of reasoning, unwillingness to part with top prospects, and UFA's reluctance to sign here has unfortunately made it seem like Wang is willing to penny-pinch to the point of rushing prospects to reach cap floor.


Great post JP. I agree with the entire post.

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07-21-2011, 03:26 PM
  #105
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He's a first round pick. They paid Jon Sim $1M a year. The cap keeps going up at like a 10%+ CAGR. Bailey is certainly worth $850k - $1M per in this current economic environment, especially if you have high expectations of him. The floor is irrelevant to this conversation. Garth's not going to disrupt his salary model for the sake of hitting the floor. There are lots of other ways he can get there.
Further to my point, if Campoli is worth $2.5M in the eyes of an arbitrator in the current NHL climate, than surely Bailey is worth 850k to 1M.

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07-23-2011, 12:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Agreed. I see Bailey is asking for more. If they trade Josh at this point I could care less, or maybe even encourage it to get someone who can help JT. I am just glad knowing we have Mike back and his jack hammers of justice.
Brett Maclean plus a pick for Bailey would re-unite JT with Maclean. They played well together in junior (albeit not always alongside each other) and Maclean has been fully groomed in the A. He looks to be ready to scores some goals at the NHL level.

Maybe you can strike gold again ala Grabner.

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07-23-2011, 02:43 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Kaizen View Post
Brett Maclean plus a pick for Bailey would re-unite JT with Maclean. They played well together in junior (albeit not always alongside each other) and Maclean has been fully groomed in the A. He looks to be ready to scores some goals at the NHL level.

Maybe you can strike gold again ala Grabner.
Nice idea but I think your overpaying with Bailey for Maclean. Personally I think he can be had for cheaper(don't know his true value though).

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07-23-2011, 02:43 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Kaizen View Post
Brett Maclean plus a pick for Bailey would re-unite JT with Maclean. They played well together in junior (albeit not always alongside each other) and Maclean has been fully groomed in the A. He looks to be ready to scores some goals at the NHL level.

Maybe you can strike gold again ala Grabner.
Do you know how many unsung players Snow signed over the past 4-5 yrs for the AHL or taken off the scrap heap?Quite a few.I think the chances that Snow 'strikes gold with Maclean like he did with Grabner, is very slim.

22 yr old Maclean wasn't rushed to the NHL.21 yr old Bailey was.If Bailey hadn't been,he'd be seen in a much better light,he'd be just entering the league.

I'm not in favor of making trades because some guy played with that player several yrs ago.An Oiler fan likes to keep saying how Gagner and Tavares were teammates.He always has to be reminded that they were about 10 yrs old then

Isles have their own unproven pf in Nino if they want a young,unproven winger for Tavares.Maclean's not bumping Moulson,Grabner or Okposo out of the remaining top 4 wing spots.

I would expect that if Bailey is moved,it'll be as part of the package to land that defensive upgrade Snow wants.

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07-23-2011, 02:52 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
Nice idea but I think your overpaying with Bailey for Maclean. Personally I think he can be had for cheaper(don't know his true value though).
I've seen the opinion that Bailey can be had cheaply,posted on different boards.Help me out here.

1.He's not a lockerroom problem.
2.He's on a cheap contract.
3.He's on the 3rd line.
4.He's not blocking the way of a more deserving prospect.
5.He's shown enough flashes to keep the NYI intrigued.

So please explain:Why would Snow deal 21 yr old Bailey cheaply?

Is his expected $800,000-$1m salary that draining for the Isles

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07-23-2011, 03:08 PM
  #110
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With stability for once, Josh will gain confidence. With confidence, he will reach more and more of his potential.

Here's his potential...


The goal was nice, but how about that puck protection going up ice? How about that tape to tape pass from behind the net with a defender all over him? That was no fluke.... this is Josh's skill set.

Another one...

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07-23-2011, 04:02 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I've seen the opinion that Bailey can be had cheaply,posted on different boards.Help me out here.

1.He's not a lockerroom problem.
2.He's on a cheap contract.
3.He's on the 3rd line.
4.He's not blocking the way of a more deserving prospect.
5.He's shown enough flashes to keep the NYI intrigued.

So please explain:Why would Snow deal 21 yr old Bailey cheaply?

Is his expected $800,000-$1m salary that draining for the Isles
I agree, Trading him at this point would do more harm than good unless its bringing in a Stud Dman. If he and Comeau and I am all for keeping him can regain their chemistry I really do believe that a Martin-Bailey-Comeau Line can be dangerous, it has size skill and grit and finally gives Martin the chance to show his offensive skill, it all hinges on if they can regain what they had, I'm going to be optimistic and say they can and will

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07-23-2011, 05:38 PM
  #112
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Bailey and Okposo had good chemistry a couple seasons ago. It might be a good idea to put them back together in camp to see if it's still there. honestly, just about anyone can play with Neilsen/Grabner.... I don't think Okposo adds much to that duo TBH.

Moulson - Tavares - PaP
Grabner - Neilsen - Martin
Comeau - Bailey - Okposo
Haley - Reasoner - Hunter

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07-23-2011, 05:45 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Bailey and Okposo had good chemistry a couple seasons ago. It might be a good idea to put them back together in camp to see if it's still there. honestly, just about anyone can play with Neilsen/Grabner.... I don't think Okposo adds much to that duo TBH.

Moulson - Tavares - PaP
Grabner - Neilsen - Martin
Comeau - Bailey - Okposo
Haley - Reasoner - Hunter

Martin is too slow to keep up with Grabner and Neilson. Comeau could be a possibility if he can play RW

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07-23-2011, 05:49 PM
  #114
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Martin is too slow to keep up with Grabner and Neilson. Comeau could be a possibility if he can play RW
Neilsen and Grabner are a two man show though. How many rushes did you see between Okposo/Grabner or Okposo/Neilsen? I can't honestly think of a single instance. I don't think Okposo hurts that line, but I don't think he really adds to it either. I think he would add a lot more to the Bailey/Comeau line, going off their past chemistry.

Now, whether or not Martin hurts Neilsen/Graber remains to be seen. I don't think his presence would be a detriment though. It might actually be good to have more of a physical presence on that line.... maybe Neilsen/Grabner get more slack out there with the threat of Martin on their wing?

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07-23-2011, 07:52 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Neilsen and Grabner are a two man show though. How many rushes did you see between Okposo/Grabner or Okposo/Neilsen? I can't honestly think of a single instance. I don't think Okposo hurts that line, but I don't think he really adds to it either. I think he would add a lot more to the Bailey/Comeau line, going off their past chemistry.

Now, whether or not Martin hurts Neilsen/Graber remains to be seen. I don't think his presence would be a detriment though. It might actually be good to have more of a physical presence on that line.... maybe Neilsen/Grabner get more slack out there with the threat of Martin on their wing?
I agree that the Nielsen/Grabner tandem cannot be hurt by putting Okposo back with Bailey. I think that's a tandem that the Islanders should consider reuniting. Let's assume that the Islanders do go ahead and re-sign Yashin, I think that Yashin/Bailey/Okposo could be a really productive line, and I'd put Comeau with Grabner and Nilsen. We'll see what happens.

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07-23-2011, 10:51 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Bailey and Okposo had good chemistry a couple seasons ago. It might be a good idea to put them back together in camp to see if it's still there. honestly, just about anyone can play with Neilsen/Grabner.... I don't think Okposo adds much to that duo TBH.

Moulson - Tavares - PaP
Grabner - Neilsen - Martin
Comeau - Bailey - Okposo
Haley - Reasoner - Hunter


I'm not ready to see the isles just dump Bailey,but I think next yr is a big one in terms of 22 yr old Okposo's development.Ttis season was a waste because of missing 42 games after shoulder surgery.
Okposo himself has said this season was a big disappointment and he's looking to rebound next season.



I doubt that anywhere in Okposo's extension talks,Snow told him he was being demoted to the 3rd line,given less icetime because Bailey doesn't bring a consistent effort game in and game out.


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07-24-2011, 12:30 AM
  #117
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I don't think it's coincidence that Neilson/Grabner took off after Okposo came back.

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07-24-2011, 12:44 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Bailey and Okposo had good chemistry a couple seasons ago. It might be a good idea to put them back together in camp to see if it's still there. honestly, just about anyone can play with Neilsen/Grabner.... I don't think Okposo adds much to that duo TBH.

Moulson - Tavares - PaP
Grabner - Neilsen - Martin
Comeau - Bailey - Okposo
Haley - Reasoner - Hunter
Let's allow Martin to prove that he is good enough to play on the 3rd line before we start throwing him in the top 6. And you're looking at the stats too much if you don't think Okposo helped Franzy and Grabs.

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07-24-2011, 06:28 AM
  #119
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I doubt that anywhere in Okposo's extension talks,Snow told him he was being demoted to the 3rd line,given less icetime because Bailey doesn't bring a consistent effort game in and game out.
That's the thing, he wouldn't hurt at all for ice time because Cappy rolls the third line as much as the second. Look at Comeau's AVG TOI. Moving Okposo to the Blake/Comeau line would also balance the lines out a bit IMHO....

Grabner/Neilsen/Martin can put up points, play solid defense, be an energy line.
Comeau/Bailey/Okposo can put up points, play solid defense, be an energy line.

It might not sound like much, but on the road when you've got the second change, it helps with matchups. It gives Cappy more options, and makes the Islanders a deeper team overall.


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07-24-2011, 06:34 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Riders on the Strome View Post
Let's allow Martin to prove that he is good enough to play on the 3rd line before we start throwing him in the top 6. And you're looking at the stats too much if you don't think Okposo helped Franzy and Grabs.
I look at everything when evaluating a player. I'm not quite sure how looking at statistics would help make a determination in this situation though. From watching them, it didn't look like Okposo added a whole lot to that line. Infact, I'd argue that his presence on that line was a bit redundant, especially on the offensive end.

All that line needs, is someone to dig the puck out of the corners and maybe add some physicality.... Neilsen/Grabner have the rest covered. Bailey/Comeau would benefit from Okposo greater than Neilsen/Grabner IMHO.

Not saying it's a slam dunk, just saying it's something they should consider during camp and atleast give it a look.

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