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Rangers to trade Zuccarello ?

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07-23-2011, 06:54 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
If the right offer comes along I wouldn't be heartbroken....

If an early second or possibly first is one the table, goodbye.

A second round pick has a 20% chance of becoming an NHLer. Picks are valuable and necessary, but overrated. I would either want a late first round pick or a relatively early #2+#4+#6 for Zuccarello. I wouldn't do a mid-second straight up. Odds are much greater that the second will become Antoine Lafleur than Artem Anisimov.

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07-23-2011, 06:58 PM
  #52
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
A second round pick has a 20% chance of becoming an NHLer. Picks are valuable and necessary, but overrated. I would either want a late first round pick or a relatively early #2+#4+#6 for Zuccarello. I wouldn't do a mid-second straight up. Odds are much greater that the second will become Antoine Lafleur than Artem Anisimov.
While you're right in the draft analysis that odds are the players picked will not make the NHL or will not make much of an impact, no team is going to give up a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Zucc. I'd be surprised if a team even gave us a 2nd for him.

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07-23-2011, 07:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
i hope MZA stays with us. would love to see what he can do in a full season
This. I'm more than sure he'll have a better season this year. I'd hate to see him go, love Zucc's game

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07-23-2011, 07:07 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Exactly. People are so quick to write in Hagelin into the lineup because he's homegrown. I'm a big fan of Hagelin but I think Zucarello's upside is higher.

I'd like to see a third line of Hagelin-Stepan-Zuccarello emerge at some point next season. Maybe Hagelin might need to get a few games under his belt in Hartford, but I think he'll burst into our lineup by mid-season. The three of them would have enough offensive ability to give us line 2b.

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07-23-2011, 07:17 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
While you're right in the draft analysis that odds are the players picked will not make the NHL or will not make much of an impact, no team is going to give up a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Zucc. I'd be surprised if a team even gave us a 2nd for him.
Then it's simply not worth it.

If MZA can deal with his size he has second line upside easily. This is a guy who dominated a very good league, albeit the larger ice surfaces and "euro game" more suit him.

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07-23-2011, 07:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
While you're right in the draft analysis that odds are the players picked will not make the NHL or will not make much of an impact, no team is going to give up a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Zucc. I'd be surprised if a team even gave us a 2nd for him.

Ok, but I'm not desperate to give up Zucc. If I get an offer of #2+#4+#6, then I will take it because it would allow me to get Christian Thomas, Michael St. Croix and Jesper Fasth, as they were at the time they were draft.

But I won't trade Zuccarello for a mid to late second rounder just to pick up a player like Fogarty.

MZA > Fogarty.

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07-23-2011, 07:24 PM
  #57
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Teams that find talent do in all rounds. Gordie finds talent. The Rangers have done pretty well with second rounders in the last few years; Dubinsky, Sauer, Anisimov, and Stepan.

I wouldn't want to give up on Zuc yet though. Let's see what he can do now that he's acclimated to the NA game.

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07-23-2011, 07:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
Teams that find talent do in all rounds. Gordie finds talent. The Rangers have done pretty well with second rounders in the last few years; Dubinsky, Sauer, Anisimov, and Stepan.

I wouldn't want to give up on Zuc yet though. Let's see what he can do now that he's acclimated to the NA game.

The Rangers have been about 50-50 in the second round in getting top-6 guys, which is amazing considering that the rest of the league has been 20-80 in getting NHLers and maybe 10-90 in getting top-6 players.

But even if Clark keeps hitting 50%, I still say Zuccarello has higher odds of cracking the top-6 than a second rounder.

I would want #40+#100+#160 for Zuccarello. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

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07-23-2011, 08:33 PM
  #59
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I think the article is pure speculation. If you think it through sure Zucc could be on the way out, so could half the roster. Zucc carries the extra feather in his cap for his shootout skills. Other than that his rook season was mediocre. I hope he can elevate but it wouldn't shock me if he makes the squad or gets traded.


Last edited by Lion Hound: 07-24-2011 at 06:33 AM.
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07-23-2011, 08:55 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Then it's simply not worth it.

If MZA can deal with his size he has second line upside easily. This is a guy who dominated a very good league, albeit the larger ice surfaces and "euro game" more suit him.
exactly. he has more potential to be the guy we are looking for than anybody we could get for him.

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07-23-2011, 08:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MDZ View Post
This. I'm more than sure he'll have a better season this year. I'd hate to see him go, love Zucc's game
plus who knows we may have marty st.louis light here similar size and quickness. it took msl a few years before he could even get it going. showed no promise at all his first 3 or 4 years. atleast at times last year mza has shown flashes that he can be a pretty good offensive player.

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07-23-2011, 09:06 PM
  #62
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Complete speculation imo. Dont think the Rangers will trade him.

Gotta give the kid a chance at this level.

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07-23-2011, 09:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
plus who knows we may have marty st.louis light here similar size and quickness. it took msl a few years before he could even get it going. showed no promise at all his first 3 or 4 years. atleast at times last year mza has shown flashes that he can be a pretty good offensive player.
There is probably a 6' 9" defenseman somewhere. If the Rangers pick him up he might become Chara light.

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07-23-2011, 10:16 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
There is probably a 6' 9" defenseman somewhere. If the Rangers pick him up he might become Chara light.
smart answer.. im factoring vision and offensive skill among other things and correct me if im wrong but i think mza is farther along at his age than st.louis was?

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07-23-2011, 11:13 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Complete speculation imo. Dont think the Rangers will trade him.

Gotta give the kid a chance at this level.
i dont think they will either, especially not till they give him a chance to show what he can do in camp.

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07-23-2011, 11:41 PM
  #66
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Maybe if Thomas just destroys in camp & first 9 games?

I could see him traded at the deadline in a package deal for an upgrade rental if we are looking like contenders.

We are amassing assets & if things continue to go up for the team than mgmt will have to try and use the quantity of assets to acquire more impactful players. Guys like MZA, Sauer, McD, & even Girardi could all be traded @ deadline or next offseason after playing above expectation in an attempt to get an impact player upgrade IMO.

Edit-im not saying trade all of them in one deal just all would be candidates if the have good seasons as they'd be coveted assets to a degree, on the fringe of the absolute core

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07-23-2011, 11:47 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
smart answer.. im factoring vision and offensive skill among other things and correct me if im wrong but i think mza is farther along at his age than st.louis was?
technically, about 2 years better. st. Louis was 25 when he scored 18 pts....MZA had 23 last season...though it was a different game then, not as wide open, clutch and grab, etc.

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07-23-2011, 11:58 PM
  #68
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Zucc as too much solid upside to trade. I mean, we haven't even seen this kid with a full year in the system under his belt.

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07-24-2011, 02:10 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
You(and others) are drawing permanent conclusions on him based on half a season in the NHL..what's next, should we trade Stepan because he only put up 42 points in his rookie year? Development doesn't happen instantly - it takes time. And guess what - the reason they call it player development is that skills grow over time. I've made this point before, but you really have to be patient with young players to see what they will grow into. And for heaven's sake can we stop drawing permanent conclusions of players based on half a season cause that's ridiculous.

The reality is he was on pace for a 44 point rookie season which is no joke. And nobody here can say they know how his skills will grow as he develops. Maybe he gets stronger? Faster? Develops a better shot? Becomes really good defensively? Can any of us really say? Did we really think Cally would be close to 30-30 2 years ago? Did any of us know who Henrik was when we drafted him? The examples keep going and going. Do you really want to write off a kid who could be our next top 6 forward because he's short? To me that's really dumb. We need all the scoring talent we can find and this kid has a bunch of talent.
1. Do I know what his full potential will be? No... but a player of his ilk is either a top 6 forward or not on the roster. I personally don't see that right now.

2. That's foolish. Stats are not everything. Clearly Stepan looks like a guy with the potential to be a 2nd line center... MAYBE even a first liner like Savard if EVERYTHING pans out right..

3. Maybe he can be stronger. Maybe he can be faster. Maybe he can be better defensively.... Maybe he can and I hope he does.... but is it terribly stupid to watch a player and make a determination? I see him as a 3rd liner. You know what? I'll take the bigger stronger kid in that spot. I watched Boston take the cup. I watched the Rangers sit Zucc. I personally thing he's very talented, but probably not enough to overtake his other weaknesses...

Is it possible to be down on a guys NHL future without being 'pessimistic?' I think he's a great guy, but I just don't see the talent that makes this overcoming it all.


Last edited by Barnaby: 07-24-2011 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Update
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07-24-2011, 03:18 AM
  #70
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I'm all for keeping him. It's not like he's a UFA after this season. He brings some good combination of playmaking and scoring skills. plus he's the jams in shootouts.

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07-24-2011, 03:23 AM
  #71
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You should and see how he does next season. Theres some adapting to do, especially for a small player like Zuccarello going from a not very physical league with big ice (SEL) to the opposite in NA. He could very well do much better, once he has fully adapted.

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07-24-2011, 03:41 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
Maybe if Thomas just destroys in camp & first 9 games?

I could see him traded at the deadline in a package deal for an upgrade rental if we are looking like contenders.

We are amassing assets & if things continue to go up for the team than mgmt will have to try and use the quantity of assets to acquire more impactful players. Guys like MZA, Sauer, McD, & even Girardi could all be traded @ deadline or next offseason after playing above expectation in an attempt to get an impact player upgrade IMO.

Edit-im not saying trade all of them in one deal just all would be candidates if the have good seasons as they'd be coveted assets to a degree, on the fringe of the absolute core
We're not going to get an impact player through quantity. If we want an impact player, then we have to trade our impact players and the list starts with Callahan, Dubinsky and Staal. In that case it makes much more sense to continue developing players like MZA, MDZ, etc b/c their trade value will not get us anything better than what we're giving up.

I'm not sold on MZA either way. However, he is a smart player from what I've seen and I expect him to be MUCH better based on the experience from last year alone. Assuming he gets marginally better on a slightly more potent team this year, would we really be willing to cut loose a 50 pt F or would we try and work him into the lineup?

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07-24-2011, 03:41 AM
  #73
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It's all speculation. He also prepares himself well with B.U. and knows what to expect for the new season. Mats is a player who always played better btw stepped up the following year.

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07-24-2011, 08:07 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
difference between Gionta/St. Louis and Zuccarello are 2 huge things. Speed and tenacity. Both of those guys are tenacious forecheckers with borderline elite speed. MZA...hes got average speed at best, and isn't a particularly good forechecker as he is so easily moved off the puck. He doenst have that escapability those other 2 guys have. if he can increase his speed significantly, then he most definitely has the talent that those other 2 mighty mouses do.
I'm not gonna speak for Gionta because I don't watch his games as much.

St. Louis seems to have everything going for him. He has all the qualities of a playermaker, sniper, two-way forward.

Plays bigger than his size. Way bigger. We all know about his conditioning... Guy's 36 and top 3 in the league. His strength around the boards and even in front of the net shows that tenacity. He uses his small size to sneak around a defenseman on a rush and finish it with the backhand. I believe it was Chara who said St. Louis was the hardest to play against.

St. Louis' backhand is almost, if not, the best in the leauge. Seems so effortless.

His vision's gotta be one of the best in the league. We all know about his chemistry will Stamkos. He's the biggest contributor to Stamkos' success. No St. Louis, no one-timers for Stammer.

For his speed, well, speed kills.

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07-24-2011, 08:08 AM
  #75
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I'm not a fan of Zucc. Not crazy about him.

I wasn't of Boyle before last season, either.

So, I say, give him a chance before trading him. It's not like he has much value anyway.

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