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Old
07-23-2011, 09:00 PM
  #51
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
You honestly think Mason is their future?
You evidently didn't see his play when the goaltending coach was actually in town.

He's only 23 years old. He's got some time before he can be called a bust.

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Old
07-23-2011, 10:39 PM
  #52
dabeechman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
You evidently didn't see his play when the goaltending coach was actually in town.

He's only 23 years old. He's got some time before he can be called a bust.
I give you credit...I haven't heard that excuse before. So he just needs to be babysat (according to you).

Gotcha...

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Old
07-23-2011, 10:46 PM
  #53
etherialone
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A huge no imo on the original proposal.

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Old
07-23-2011, 10:48 PM
  #54
3074326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
I give you credit...I haven't heard that excuse before. So he just needs to be babysat (according to you).

Gotcha...
No, he's a 23 year old goalie and could use some dedicated coaching. Far from his prime. Would still love to see Mason with a solid defense in front of him.

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Old
07-23-2011, 10:57 PM
  #55
Muzzinga
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Nash's cap hit is more than double what Browns is (about 5mill difference)

That is huge. I honestly dont think id deal Nash for Brown straight up. Yes Nash is amazing, and is a far superior player to Brown, but does he provide double the offence?

Brown's bang for your buck contract is 1 of the top ones in the league, and you need ones like that to do anything now

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Old
07-24-2011, 12:12 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
oh and in b4 the first CBJ fan whines about you using CLB
You got it champ

Gonna have to add a 4th for the mistake. IT'S F***ING CBJ

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Old
07-24-2011, 12:13 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
I give you credit...I haven't heard that excuse before. So he just needs to be babysat (according to you).

Gotcha...
If it looks stupid but it works it isn't stupid.

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Old
07-24-2011, 12:17 AM
  #58
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you have to remove one of the three kings players and replace it with a pick or prospect to make it a fair proposal.

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Old
07-24-2011, 12:37 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjoshjosh View Post
You got it champ

Gonna have to add a 4th for the mistake. IT'S F***ING CBJ
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CLB

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Old
07-24-2011, 01:40 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CBJ

WEEEEE its both.

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Old
07-24-2011, 02:00 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3074326 View Post
No, he's a 23 year old goalie and could use some dedicated coaching. Far from his prime. Would still love to see Mason with a solid defense in front of him.
Mason's stats in November and December, 2008:

20 GP, 12W, 7L, .938 sv%, 1.69 GAA

Mason's stats in every other regular season NHL game he's ever played:

153 GP, 65W, 60L, .902 sv%, 2.92 GAA

Mason rode a 20 game stretch in his rookie year where he played beyond unreal right into a Calder. Since then he has been decidedly mediocre, even bordering on awful.

Now, I'm not saying he's worthless and he'll never do anything in his career but he will need to pull a dramatic 180 and get his career back on track ASAP.

Personally, I would not bet on Mason ever becoming the goalie that many assumed he would be after his Calder win. I guess it's up to him to make me eat my words.

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Old
07-24-2011, 09:35 AM
  #62
Viqsi
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Gosh, I don't know any other young goaltenders who practically skipped the AHL and had one awesome debut season at age 20 due to their size and technical proficiency, followed by two rough ones at ages 21 and 22 due to falling apart mentally, who turned things around afterward at age 23.

I mean, that just never happens.


(Any Habs fans that may or may not be watching are now free to point and laugh. )

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Old
07-24-2011, 09:44 AM
  #63
JF Omalycat
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One of the best Nash proposals I've seen on here.
I don't think either team does this, but the value is reasonable, if not a little heavy on LA's side.
Can definitely see why King's fans wouldn't go for it.

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Old
07-24-2011, 12:05 PM
  #64
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probably reasonable value.

But just don't see the incentive for either side to pull the trigger and lots of reasons not to.

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Old
07-24-2011, 01:33 PM
  #65
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Kings get screwed

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Old
07-24-2011, 02:02 PM
  #66
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take out quick and add decent player/goalie prospect, should be pretty equal value, however, as it is now it is big overpayment.

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Old
07-24-2011, 02:31 PM
  #67
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Gosh, I don't know any other young goaltenders who practically skipped the AHL and had one awesome debut season at age 20 due to their size and technical proficiency, followed by two rough ones at ages 21 and 22 due to falling apart mentally, who turned things around afterward at age 23.

I mean, that just never happens.


(Any Habs fans that may or may not be watching are now free to point and laugh. )
Like I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Now, I'm not saying he's worthless and he'll never do anything in his career but he will need to pull a dramatic 180 and get his career back on track ASAP.
Comparing him to price is ridiculous for a few reasons:

1) Price was much more consistent throughout his rookie season. He had his ups and downs but it wasn't anywhere near as severe as Mason's where he was pulling a Jekyl/Hyde act. Mason looked like a surefire franchise talent the first 20 games and like an unspectacular starter for the last 40.

2) Even through his highs and lows Price always had the pedigree and known franchise player level of talent. There was a reason Price was a very very high 1st round pick and Steve Mason was an unexciting middle of the 3rd round pick.

3) Carey Price's "bad" seasons were him posting a .905 and .912 sv% respectively. Mason has posted back-to-back .901 sv% seasons.

But again, let me repeat my position because people have trouble reading sometimes: Mason could very well turn out to be the best goalie in the league during his prime. He could easily turn out to have a HOF career. But so far, aside from a 20 game stretch in his rookie season, he has been extremely mediocre.

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Old
07-24-2011, 02:50 PM
  #68
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Like I said:



Comparing him to price is ridiculous for a few reasons:

1) Price was much more consistent throughout his rookie season. He had his ups and downs but it wasn't anywhere near as severe as Mason's where he was pulling a Jekyl/Hyde act. Mason looked like a surefire franchise talent the first 20 games and like an unspectacular starter for the last 40.

2) Even through his highs and lows Price always had the pedigree and known franchise player level of talent. There was a reason Price was a very very high 1st round pick and Steve Mason was an unexciting middle of the 3rd round pick.

3) Carey Price's "bad" seasons were him posting a .905 and .912 sv% respectively. Mason has posted back-to-back .901 sv% seasons.

But again, let me repeat my position because people have trouble reading sometimes: Mason could very well turn out to be the best goalie in the league during his prime. He could easily turn out to have a HOF career. But so far, aside from a 20 game stretch in his rookie season, he has been extremely mediocre.
#1: Price also didn't have mononucleosis in his rookie year that could lead to a down period.

#2: Mason was an "unexciting middle of the 3rd round pick" 'cause nobody had actually seen him play much up to that point - he'd played in all of 12 games for the Knights in his draft year 'cause they had established goaltending otherwise. His value went up considerably after he took the goaltending job for Team Canada in the World Juniors and won.

#3: Columbus's defense during those seasons consisted of three top-4 defensemen and an orange construction barrel. The blueline fell apart after that stop in the playoffs, in no small part due to Commodore's offseason deathspiral.

As for reading comprehension, I note that you said he's not guaranteed hopeless. I also note that you said you'd bet that he would be.

Ultimately, we don't need a HoF goaltender. We just need a good one. And the odds are strongly in his favor to be a very good one.

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Old
07-24-2011, 03:09 PM
  #69
Kurrilino
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i think it's too late to trade cor col and la.

The value was there with Filatov vs Hickey or whatever prospect.

Now we have barely a top 6 together and would create more holes than we fix.
The only way Kings are trading partner now would be one of the a defense prospects for an a offense man that's it.

JJ is going nowhere right now.

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Old
07-24-2011, 03:11 PM
  #70
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
#1: Price also didn't have mononucleosis in his rookie year that could lead to a down period.
Correct, Mason did struggle against Mono in his rookie season. I'd be much more inclined to ignore his dramatic crash back to earth if he showed any glimpse of his earlier form in the next 2 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
#2: Mason was an "unexciting middle of the 3rd round pick" 'cause nobody had actually seen him play much up to that point - he'd played in all of 12 games for the Knights in his draft year 'cause they had established goaltending otherwise. His value went up considerably after he took the goaltending job for Team Canada in the World Juniors and won.
Again, valid point. A lack of exposure is a valid reason for many superb players to slip through the cracks in the draft but it still brings me to the point of small sample sizes. Mason has never shown the ability to exert his dominance over a large sample size of games. Price has. When you see either goalie struggling, you can't look back on Mason's junior career and say he'll certainly rebound... with Price you pretty much could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
#3: Columbus's defense during those seasons consisted of three top-4 defensemen and an orange construction barrel. The blueline fell apart after that stop in the playoffs, in no small part due to Commodore's offseason deathspiral.
I feel for Mason, struggling behind a bad defense, but if you're going to be an elite goaltender in the league you have to start making the saves regardless of who is playing in front of you. Look at someone like Vokoun who toiled in Florida for the last few years but managed to still post numbers around .920+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
As for reading comprehension, I note that you said he's not guaranteed hopeless. I also note that you said you'd bet that he would be.
Actually, what I said was: "I would not bet on Mason ever becoming the goalie that many assumed he would be after his Calder win."

People were predicting he'd be an elite goalie for the next decade+ after his Calder win. I think he'll be decent but I wouldn't put any money down on him breaking into that elite tier of goalies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Ultimately, we don't need a HoF goaltender. We just need a good one. And the odds are strongly in his favor to be a very good one.
See, this is where I disagree. I think he will probably be able to maintain his starting job but I don't think the odds are "strongly in his favour to be a very good one". I guess the disagreement could stem from your definition of very good one. To me, "very good" for a goalie is around the top 10. I don't think the odds are in his favour to sustain a spot in the top-10 during his career. I think he'll be around the middle tier of starting goalies for most of his career, around 11-20th. Not great but not awful.

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Old
07-24-2011, 04:07 PM
  #71
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Really?

Columbus JUST adds Carter to play with Nash, and someone is ready to dump him?

Let me guess: it was the Prospal sigining that made this line of thinking possible???



Unreal...

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Old
07-24-2011, 05:42 PM
  #72
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As a kings fan I would probably do this. Columbus wwould have to add a solid forward prospect or a pick though.

I think the kings are in a position where they could use a superstar more then depth. Johnson and quick could both be replaced from within the organization without missing tooo much.

Nassh is a monster

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Old
07-24-2011, 07:22 PM
  #73
thadd
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Replace Brown or Quick with Forbort or Voynov and a 1st rounder and I think this deal looks better value-wise.

To Columbus:
Brown/Quick
Johnson
Forbert/Voynov
2012 1st rounder

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