HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Isles and LA?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-23-2011, 08:08 AM
  #51
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,163
vCash: 500
Brock Nelson was also a true freshman, while TJ Oshie had one year in the USHL. At that age the maturity level between different ages could be cavernous. Oshie was playing in a very professional amateur league, while Nelson came straight from high school. Not saying that's why Oshie did so much better than Nelson just saying they are not really comparable. A better comparison would be Nelson's second season to Oshie's first.

Renbarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 08:16 AM
  #52
Fairenough
Registered User
 
Fairenough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Martinez has already re-signed with LA. A few weeks back...

Fairenough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 11:09 AM
  #53
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairenough View Post
Martinez has already re-signed with LA. A few weeks back...
Ohh OK. Then TSN is reallyyyyyyy lagging on their arbitration list.

Chapin Landvogt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 03:03 PM
  #54
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,927
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Brock Nelson was also a true freshman, while TJ Oshie had one year in the USHL. At that age the maturity level between different ages could be cavernous. Oshie was playing in a very professional amateur league, while Nelson came straight from high school. Not saying that's why Oshie did so much better than Nelson just saying they are not really comparable. A better comparison would be Nelson's second season to Oshie's first.
I think a better comparisons for Nelson would be Nick Bjugstad or Charlie Coyle.

boredmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 05:05 PM
  #55
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Brock Nelson was also a true freshman, while TJ Oshie had one year in the USHL. At that age the maturity level between different ages could be cavernous. Oshie was playing in a very professional amateur league, while Nelson came straight from high school. Not saying that's why Oshie did so much better than Nelson just saying they are not really comparable. A better comparison would be Nelson's second season to Oshie's first.
Sometimes it actually pays to truly know what you're talking about instead of spreading misinformation.

Oshie played 11 games in the USHL after his high school season was over. Then he played in the NCAA the following season. He actually played his first year in the WCHA the exact same age as Nelson did, as both are late birth dates in their draft year and started their NCAA careers at age 19.

Seeing as how both played their high school years in Worroad, here are their senior stats for comparison:

Oshie

2004-05 Warroad 31 37 62 99

Nelson

2009-10 Warroad 25 39 34 73

Comparable senior HS numbers aside, their freshman years in North Dakota were night and day. Nelson still has a lot of catching up to do there.

Konk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 05:45 PM
  #56
Jester9881
Registered User
 
Jester9881's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 6,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Sometimes it actually pays to truly know what you're talking about instead of spreading misinformation.

Oshie played 11 games in the USHL after his high school season was over. Then he played in the NCAA the following season. He actually played his first year in the WCHA the exact same age as Nelson did, as both are late birth dates in their draft year and started their NCAA careers at age 19.

Seeing as how both played their high school years in Worroad, here are their senior stats for comparison:

Oshie

2004-05 Warroad 31 37 62 99

Nelson

2009-10 Warroad 25 39 34 73

Comparable senior HS numbers aside, their freshman years in North Dakota were night and day. Nelson still has a lot of catching up to do there.
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but if you pro-rate his numbers.... Nelson would have had 91pts in 31 GP.

Jester9881 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 06:37 PM
  #57
drive45
Registered User
 
drive45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: closer than I appear
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 452
vCash: 500
JJ or Mt grn?

'LA" does not necessarilly mean Doughty. Jack Jonhson is very good; what would it take to get him? What about Matt Green?

drive45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 07:55 PM
  #58
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but if you pro-rate his numbers.... Nelson would have had 91pts in 31 GP.
Which is why I said comparable HS numbers aside. Fact of the matter is, at a higher level (WCHA) Oshie continued his offensive prowess and Nelson struggled to adapt.

Konk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2011, 08:44 PM
  #59
BOSSY1126
Registered User
 
BOSSY1126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmo429 View Post
Niederreiter, De Haan, Bailey, 1st rounder for Doughty would eb my offer.

Niederreiter would be hard to swallow, but look at the wingers we have. Moulson, parenteau, Okposo, Grabner, Comeau, Kabanov, Petrov, Rakhshani. Yes Niederreiter could be better than all of them, but Doughty is worth it. Niederreiter is a complimentary top 6 goal scoring power forward. great for teams to have, but not nearly as improtant as a frnachise defenseman. All the Cup winning teams have one

Not all but a lot. They are important. Hell, If I were Garth Snow Id go after someone like Ryan Whitney or Lubomir Visnovsky or Jay Bouwmeester, or Stephane Robidas or Nik Kronwall or Ryan Suter or Keith yandle or Marc Edouard Vlasic or Barret Jackman or Pavel Kubina or Keith ballard or Dennis Wideman.

Or Doughty

Any of those guys would fill our need of legit top 4 defenseman (Lubo, JayBo, Robidas, Kronwall, Suter, Yandle, and Doughty would all be legit top pairing defenseman imo, Vlasic, Whitney, Jackman, Kubina would be fringe top pairing, #3 defenseman, whiel ballard and Wideman would be #4's imo)
i have no clue where yu came from but if your an islander fan then i'm a crackhead stop trading our first rounders away like its candy omg doughty is never coming here we drafted these guys for a reason and it's not gonna happen so for god sakes stop it already

BOSSY1126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 06:43 AM
  #60
Jester9881
Registered User
 
Jester9881's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 6,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Which is why I said comparable HS numbers aside. Fact of the matter is, at a higher level (WCHA) Oshie continued his offensive prowess and Nelson struggled to adapt.
Got ya, I agree his numbers last season weren't encouraging. Every player matures at a different level though, and when you're talking about a Junior team, or NCAA.... you have to consider the roster turnover year to year. Over a period of 4 years, a lot can change.

The good news is, Nelson was never higher than maybe 8th on our prospect depth chart anyway.

He looked real good in the prospect camp though, I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do this coming season.

Jester9881 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 09:28 AM
  #61
Mr Wentworth
Arch Duke of Raleigh
 
Mr Wentworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Got ya, I agree his numbers last season weren't encouraging. Every player matures at a different level though, and when you're talking about a Junior team, or NCAA.... you have to consider the roster turnover year to year. Over a period of 4 years, a lot can change.

The good news is, Nelson was never higher than maybe 8th on our prospect depth chart anyway.

He looked real good in the prospect camp though, I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do this coming season.
To me, Brock is a long term project. He was drafted right out of high school. To me, that was/is a wise move. It might be another 2-3 years until he sees NHL playing time, but, that was the point. Get a great young kid and be patient with him. Don't rush him, and you've got someone you can throw in the 12-13 lineup. He was/is a long term investment.

Mr Wentworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 10:21 AM
  #62
_illicit_
Registered User
 
_illicit_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Which is why I said comparable HS numbers aside. Fact of the matter is, at a higher level (WCHA) Oshie continued his offensive prowess and Nelson struggled to adapt.
Not quite as black and white as you are making it out to be. Oshie's team was much younger and the teens were given a lot more responsibility. Nelson had to deal with a far more veteran laden team, and was not given the same level of responsibility.

_illicit_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 10:37 AM
  #63
blinkman360
Norris
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lawn Guyland
Country: United States
Posts: 9,700
vCash: 500
I really don't think the Isles should be looking to trade for any star caliber defender. I don't think it would be wise to deal away multiple key parts of this team's future. IMO, I would rather just sign a stop-gap or try to find a decent top-4 guy who we could acquire without trading away A-level prospects.

I think this team could compete for a playoff spot as-is. Sign a one year veteran for the blueline and go to war with what you have. This team has been built so well, I'd hate to see a large chunk of our future dealt away, even if it is for a player of Doughty's stature.

We should just go into 2011-12 as the underdog without any major moves, hope 8/1 passes, hope we at least compete for a playoff spot, and in the 2012 offseason make your move for a Brent Burns or Ryan Suter(a move which wouldn't require this team dealing away any of their young core).

blinkman360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 10:47 AM
  #64
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Sometimes it actually pays to truly know what you're talking about instead of spreading misinformation.

Oshie played 11 games in the USHL after his high school season was over. Then he played in the NCAA the following season. He actually played his first year in the WCHA the exact same age as Nelson did, as both are late birth dates in their draft year and started their NCAA careers at age 19.
You are right... my screwup

Renbarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 02:20 PM
  #65
Fist of Fury
Wang Chung
 
Fist of Fury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 149
vCash: 500
Matt Greene makes sense and by acquiring him we wouldn't have to break the bank. He's quite solid right handed defensive d-man.

Fist of Fury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2011, 09:27 PM
  #66
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by _illicit_ View Post
Not quite as black and white as you are making it out to be. Oshie's team was much younger and the teens were given a lot more responsibility. Nelson had to deal with a far more veteran laden team, and was not given the same level of responsibility.
You are correct the circumstances didn't force Nelson into a big role instantly, but that's a good thing because he isn't on Oshie's level and wouldn't have been able to handle it.

Oshie and Toews stepped in as freshmen and looked just as good as Stafford and Zajac, if not better. Stafford at that point was in his last year at NoDak, as a junior, if I remember correctly. They were both all-around players who were at the physical level of their competition and their hockey sense is what put them over the edge.

Nelson came in physically over-matched and with a lot of room to grow mentally. Many on this board noticed it just at the prospects camp, imagine how exposed he was in the WCHA. Of course, he grew as the season progressed and his second half was better than his first which is ultimately what you want to see. He is developing.

Don't kid yourself though, there was a lot more than just the talent ahead of him that stopped him from putting up a PPG as a rookie. That wasn't going to happen for him and I don't expect it to happen this year either. I expect a Blake Geoffrion type trajectory for him and I would expect him to stay in ND all four years as Geoffrion did in Wisconsin. I see them both as potentially elite checkers as Pros.

Konk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.