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07-25-2011, 09:23 AM
  #26
Larry44
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Dry island? What kind of policy is that? I could understand no drinking the night before or on game days, but a month of no drinking is simply unnecessary. Regardless, the article sounds at least half ******** to me.
Dry Island?

And you guys laughed at rearranging the lockers and baking cakes!

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07-25-2011, 09:24 AM
  #27
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Bill's take..

Thing is that one of those "insider" sources mentioned some illegal activity but again who knows...


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As far as the actual trades go, I think there were a variety of issues at play, but there were mostly long-term hockey-related and salary-cap related motives at work.

The fact that there were divisions within the Flyers' locker room was a poorly kept secret as was the notion that the team's off-season moves would indirectly reveal where some of the problems lay. However, how many people honestly suspected that both Carter AND Richards would be traded? I certainly did not.

My view of players' off-ice activities remains the same: Unless their behaviors are illegal or otherwise get in the way of their ability to come to the rink and perform their jobs, it's a non-story as far as I'm concerned. However, no players should put themselves above the team-- the exception is for serious family-related or major health/injury issues.


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...72511/45/37247

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07-25-2011, 09:25 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
It's the freaking gossip columnist. It's what he does.
They hand these types of articles off to the gossip columnist because they never have to worry about going into a lockerroom and be accountable for what they wrote. I wouldn't be surprised if the beat writer broke it and handed it off...

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07-25-2011, 09:26 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Dry Island?

And you guys laughed at rearranging the lockers and baking cakes!
It's not as bad as requesting celibacy (Italian national soccer team coach)....but for some I guess it could be.

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07-25-2011, 09:27 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
They hand these types of articles off to the gossip columnist because they never have to worry about going into a lockerroom and be accountable for what they wrote. I wouldn't be surprised if the beat writer broke it and handed it off...
Bill's take

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What I find fascinating is that two teammates anonymously went into great detail to a non-sports writer about Peter Laviolette's "Dry Island" policy and the players' refusal to cooperate. Also the fact that Paul Holmgren confirmed the Dry Island story while also expressing outrage that players took something like this beyond the bounds of the locker room and also noting that Richards and Carter were not the only non-participants.

My take on this is that whatever players told Gross did so knowing that his particular line of work -- sordid as it may be -- requires complete protection of sources. It is also insulated and removed from beat writers and others who are around the team and players on a regular basis. The sources could truly be anonymous around everyone they see in their workplace.

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07-25-2011, 09:29 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Dry Island?

And you guys laughed at rearranging the lockers and baking cakes!
Well, it seems it was the players that coined the term, not Lavy, from how the report reads. Baking cakes was all the **** on John Stevens.

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07-25-2011, 09:29 AM
  #32
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Bill's right in the regard that if they do their job, which Richie and Carter were quite good at, it's nobody's business if they stopped at a bar on their way home. I know my employer has no insight on my dealings after work, and I would never adhere to a policy that allows them.

His blunders in this past offseason and this ridiculous policy have me seriously questioning Laviolette. I'd say the organization too for taking his side over their captain, but I already know they have retards in charge. Lavi really better pull this team together and make something respectable out of them this season.

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07-25-2011, 09:32 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I think we've ID'd the leakers.....Leino seems like the other one but who knows.
Huh? No one knows the leakers, and it doesn't really matter. It could just as likely be Giroux and Timonen as Pronger and JVR as any other two players, returning or not.

What is interesting, as Meltzer points out, is that players talked about Dry Island and Homer confirmed it existed.

Having this out there will help make the trades more understandable for the fanbase.

If you are the captain and the assistant captain, and the Coach asks the team to sacrifice beer for a month, and you don't do it, it's not leadership.

I'm disappointed in my favourite players for not standing up and being counted.

There is nothing wrong with going for beers after a game - beer league or NHL.

Clearly there were more issues than a few post-game brown pops for it to have come to this. Pity.

I'm sure this year, when Lavy posts the Dry Island board in the locker, it will be titled:

Dry Island
or
List of players wishing to come back for 2012-13

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Old
07-25-2011, 09:38 AM
  #34
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One thing to keep in mind is that at the end of the season the Flyers lost to Chicago Lavi did request that the players come back better conditioned and commit to an offseason workout regimen. Lavi is a very demanding coach and this was known when he was hired and Stevens was let go b/c the team took advantage of him and his accomodating ways.

Lavi is not unlike Hitchcock in that he has a short shelf life but the Flyers given their history with coaches weren't about to scapegoat another coach even if he has flaws. This time they decided to move players who may not have had total buy in and commitment to the coach's ways. I still think Carter being moved was more a cap and hockey move but yeah I think with Richards unfortunately there were off ice extenuating circumstances that the organization felt couldn't be bridged smoothly...right, wrong or indifferent.

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07-25-2011, 09:41 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Huh? No one knows the leakers, and it doesn't really matter. It could just as likely be Giroux and Timonen as Pronger and JVR as any other two players, returning or not.

What is interesting, as Meltzer points out, is that players talked about Dry Island and Homer confirmed it existed.

Having this out there will help make the trades more understandable for the fanbase.

If you are the captain and the assistant captain, and the Coach asks the team to sacrifice beer for a month, and you don't do it, it's not leadership.

I'm disappointed in my favourite players for not standing up and being counted.

There is nothing wrong with going for beers after a game - beer league or NHL.

Clearly there were more issues than a few post-game brown pops for it to have come to this. Pity.

I'm sure this year, when Lavy posts the Dry Island board in the locker, it will be titled:

Dry Island
or
List of players wishing to come back for 2012-13

I agree no one know's the leakers and that's is why I said "who knows" but an equal HUH to saying it doesn't matter b/c it kind of does as far as integrity goes. Meltzer implies as much by saying it was a throwing under the bus issue. If it is somebody like Boucher and Leino..ex Flyers then it matters somewhat less but if it's players on the team well that kind of does matter b/c of breaking that inner sanctum trust that Holmgren is annoyed about.

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07-25-2011, 09:50 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post

If you are the captain and the assistant captain, and the Coach asks the team to sacrifice beer for a month, and you don't do it, it's not leadership.
Very good point.

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07-25-2011, 09:51 AM
  #37
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First I will not point any fingers at anyone for leaking this because we all can speculate on who did it but in reality we do not have a clue. I for one do not care for people who talk to the papers about things that should have stayed in the locker room. I do not think for one minute that the drinking was the main reason for the trades that went down. I am a little upset that the locker room could not police this crap up in house. But if you remember Reggie Leach was one of Clarkie's pals and he used to get ragged on at practice for being hungover. But times have changed. That being said I just wish the writer had put this story in his back pocket and saved it for his frigging book one day and not wait a month later to throw this crap out there for us to read.

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07-25-2011, 09:52 AM
  #38
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Very good point.
It's especially important at stages in a season like the second half when you are playing freakin .500 hockey and squandering your playoff seeding. I don't find it unreasonable. Commitment is never easy..that's why I'm still unmarried!

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07-25-2011, 09:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Another thing to think about, imagine HBO showing this no-drinking policy. How embarrassing would that be for the Flyers?
It's never stated that the policy was put into action because of Carter and Richards, only that it was put into place shortly after Laviolette first arrived. It's possible that this has been a personal policy for Lavi for some time, and will likely still be on that board by the time Jan. 2nd rolls around.


Last edited by DumpyD: 07-25-2011 at 10:28 AM.
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07-25-2011, 09:55 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
First I will not point any fingers at anyone for leaking this because we all can speculate on who did it but in reality we do not have a clue. I for one do not care for people who talk to the papers about things that should have stayed in the locker room. I do not think for one minute that the drinking was the main reason for the trades that went down. I am a little upset that the locker room could not police this crap up in house. But if you remember Reggie Leach was one of Clarkie's pals and he used to get ragged on at practice for being hungover. But times have changed. That being said I just wish the writer had put this story in his back pocket and saved it for his frigging book one day and not wait a month later to throw this crap out there for us to read.
This is pretty much how I feel. I have the opinion that this article was pretty unnecessary. It throws some salt on the wounds that were just starting to heal, and for what? So the writer could get some extra hits? I'm sure Holmgren's none too pleased about this article, and I could see it being yet another in a long list of reasons for Holmgren to not throw the media any bones.

Poorly timed, questionably motivated, and an all-together gigantic nuisance.

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07-25-2011, 09:58 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
It's never stated that the policy was put into action because of Carter and Richards, only that it was put into place shortly after Laviolette first arrived. It's possible that this has been a personal policy for Lavi for some time, and will likely still be on that board by the time Jan. 2nd roles around.

True, but I don't see that happening now since all the "partiers" are pretty much gone.

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07-25-2011, 10:02 AM
  #42
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True, but I don't see that happening now since all the "partiers" are pretty much gone.
I guess you missed the picture of Simmonds with a huge bottle of Bacardi white that's been going around. Or the rep coming out of Columbus that Voracek is a party animal. Drinking and hockey have gone hand in hand for generations and it isn't going to stop just because 2 Flyers were traded.

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07-25-2011, 10:04 AM
  #43
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I guess you missed the picture of Simmonds with a huge bottle of Bacardi white that's been going around. Or the rep coming out of Columbus that Voracek is a party animal. Drinking and hockey have gone hand in hand for generations and it isn't going to stop just because 2 Flyers were traded.

LOL nice. I was being sarcastic about the partiers being gone. Sorry that wasn't clear. But I was insinuating that the partiers were the olde city gang. Everyone knows hockey players and/or pro athletes party hard.

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07-25-2011, 10:06 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
It's never stated that the policy was put into action because of Carter and Richards, only that it was put into place shortly after Laviolette first arrived. It's possible that this has been a personal policy for Lavi for some time, and will likely still be on that board by the time Jan. 2nd roles around.
So you are going to combat speculation, backed by longstanding rumors, photos, etc. and now substantiated by two actual though unnamed players with speculation that you thought up on your own?

Look, I wouldn't have traded Richards. Carter I was open to because I'm a believer that Giroux & Briere needed to be at center and because he could bring in a nice return and I'm not willing to just overlook the dive in his playoff production like some here inexplicably are. However, these reports aren't new or out of the blue. This is longstanding stuff.

This is a where there is smoke there is fire type of situation. It is the only thing that makes sense.

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07-25-2011, 10:08 AM
  #45
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This is pretty much how I feel. I have the opinion that this article was pretty unnecessary. It throws some salt on the wounds that were just starting to heal, and for what? So the writer could get some extra hits? I'm sure Holmgren's none too pleased about this article, and I could see it being yet another in a long list of reasons for Holmgren to not throw the media any bones.

Poorly timed, questionably motivated, and an all-together gigantic nuisance.
But if you ignore the media, Philadelphia will call for your head and praise the heavens when you're cut loose for a prospect and a third liner. wut.

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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I guess you missed the picture of Simmonds with a huge bottle of Bacardi white that's been going around. Or the rep coming out of Columbus that Voracek is a party animal. Drinking and hockey have gone hand in hand for generations and it isn't going to stop just because 2 Flyers were traded.
How about we go beyond that and just say that drinking is an accepted part of society and no one, no matter how much money you make, can dictate what you do behind closed doors. After all, we glamorize drinking every time a team accomplishes anything in every sport.

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07-25-2011, 10:12 AM
  #46
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No one cares that "Al Morganti brought Japanese eating sensation Takeru Kobayashi to Saloon"?

The first thing that needs to be analyzed is the placement of the board used by Laviolette. Was it seen by media and other non-team personnel when they entered the dressing room?

If visible only to team personnel, then Holmgren should have stuck firmly to the "inner sanctum" disposition rather than possibly intensify the matter by stating that players (two named) exercised their option not to partake.

Dramatic effects aside, the "really upset that this is out there" and "someone's crossing a line here" need to be cause for concern. A better assessment would be the hear audio or read a transcript rather than isolated comments extracted for the purposes of the article.

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07-25-2011, 10:14 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
First I will not point any fingers at anyone for leaking this because we all can speculate on who did it but in reality we do not have a clue. I for one do not care for people who talk to the papers about things that should have stayed in the locker room. I do not think for one minute that the drinking was the main reason for the trades that went down. I am a little upset that the locker room could not police this crap up in house. But if you remember Reggie Leach was one of Clarkie's pals and he used to get ragged on at practice for being hungover. But times have changed. That being said I just wish the writer had put this story in his back pocket and saved it for his frigging book one day and not wait a month later to throw this crap out there for us to read.
Fair points, but it is obvious that the locker room was so broken that players felt it was OK to talk about it.

As far as the timing goes, it's a perfect July story, the answer (or as much of it as we are going to get) to the unanswered questions about why the Flyers traded their franchise stars.

The denials/responses are key. Carter's agent is indignant, as is his job. But he's guaranteed commissions for the next 11 years, so that's expected.

Homer, who took offense to the breach of confidentiality, chose to legitimize the story by admitting the Dry Island board existed - and that there were less than 23 names on it. Now the next question is, who else didn't sign?

He could have said, "I"m not discussing anonymous rumours, even if they are published", but he didn't.

I don't think the organization really minds this story getting out there during the mid-summer lull. Much better than if it surfaced in training camp or in the first week of the new season. It will hush up the rumour mills and let them focus on the new season. It will also die down in plenty of time for the players to start afresh with their new teams.

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07-25-2011, 10:15 AM
  #48
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So you are going to combat speculation, backed by longstanding rumors, photos, etc. and now substantiated by two actual though unnamed players with speculation that you thought up on your own?
Where am I speculating anything? I'm interpreting the words in the article. You certainly can't disprove anything I said as being untrue, because it's impossible for any of us to know. You act like I said Richards and Carter weren't drinking.

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This is longstanding stuff.
And for how long might that be? I'm genuinely curious. The only point I made is that this could have been a personal policy of Laviolette's, and that he could have put it in place regardless of whether or not Richards and Carter were known drinkers.

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07-25-2011, 10:22 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
No one cares that "Al Morganti brought Japanese eating sensation Takeru Kobayashi to Saloon"?

The first thing that needs to be analyzed is the placement of the board used by Laviolette. Was it seen by media and other non-team personnel when they entered the dressing room?

If visible only to team personnel, then Holmgren should have stuck firmly to the "inner sanctum" disposition rather than possibly intensify the matter by stating that players (two named) exercised their option not to partake.

Dramatic effects aside, the "really upset that this is out there" and "someone's crossing a line here" need to be cause for concern. A better assessment would be the hear audio or read a transcript rather than isolated comments extracted for the purposes of the article.
I don't know how to read Homer's comments. I do wish I could hear the audio, how he says those words can change what I think he's doing here 180 degrees.

At first, no comment would seem to be the appropriate response. Him confirming the policy even existed, and going into such detail with the reporter about it, would seem at first to be his way of leaking info out there in a half-sneaky way to make the two players look worse. Of course, if that is the case, why didn't he do this a month ago? Why did he seem genuinely upset at trading both guys? And why wouldn't he just leak this to a sports writer, as GMs usually do when they are trying to smear a player?

Then I got to thinking that no comment might actually be the worst response. In his statement, he goes to great length to indicate that this wasn't just a Richie & Carter thing, that other players also did not participate. If he just says no comment, it could be construed as a deafening silence, and the only players called out would be those two.

Whatever was going on in what he said, it definitely isn't the way he should have handled it. Even if you think he's not trying to be malicious, he didn't do himself any favors.

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07-25-2011, 10:27 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
Where am I speculating anything?
Here:

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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
The only point I made is that this could have been a personal policy of Laviolette's, and that he could have put it in place regardless of whether or not Richards and Carter were known drinkers.
Given that there are stories, photos, etc. about the OCC's excessive partying going back years (heck, the fact that the name OCC exists at all is damning), it seems more likely than not that Lavy didn't bring this in with him, but instead implemented it in order to respond to a problem he was seeing with the room. That's my bit of speculation. One based on things other than my imagination.

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