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Summer boredom- Clowe,Vlasic next paydays

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Old
07-24-2011, 02:01 PM
  #26
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Who is his agent? Is he a hard-baller? Very anxious to see how Vlasic fairs this year paired w/ Burns. If Pickles has a very good year, I can see DW locking him up for another 4yrs w/ slight overpayment before his current contract expires.Anyone know the comps for a shutdown Dman w/ Vlasic's skill set?
Some Comps:
RFA - Gorges $2.5mil
UFA - Hejda $3.2mil

That is based on TOI for a dman who is not always getting top pairing matchups. About 20min/game and less than 20 points.

If his points or TOI go up, the above comps go out the window. We will have to see what the season brings. I can see him being paired with Burns where his points won't go up but his TOI will and his matchups will as well. If his matchups/TOI go up, he will go into the $3.5-4.0mil range. He should not be in that range if his numbers don't go up from this past year. Top end for a pure shutdown dman is $4.5mil; Vlasic is not at that level and has not been progressing in that direction.

There is not a lot of inflation on contracts. Surprisingly, teams are remaining steady in the face of the cap. All sweeps day signees are slightly overpaid and their contracts are not good comparisons for hometown signees.

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07-24-2011, 07:13 PM
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The fact that somebody actually said "let Vlasic walk" is absurd.

GTFO.

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07-25-2011, 11:31 AM
  #28
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Of course the obvious answer here is Clowe @ 4.5m, Murray at 3.1 and let Vlasic walk because he's not worth what they're paying him now.

Seriously, have you seen what's available for 3.5? Vlasic simply isn;t worth it...

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07-25-2011, 11:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Thepainter View Post
The fact that somebody actually said "let Vlasic walk" is absurd.

GTFO.
The fact that people still believe Vlasic is a top level shutdown Dman despite 6 years of evidence to the contrary is absurd...

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07-25-2011, 11:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Some Comps:
RFA - Gorges $2.5mil
UFA - Hejda $3.2mil
Gorges is the best comp I've seen so far. I'd take Hejda over Vlasic in a heartbeat.

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07-25-2011, 02:33 PM
  #31
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Defenseman don't hit their prime until their late 20s-early 30s. How old is Vlasic? And he already has 6 years under his belt and is steady in his own zone? I wouldn't let him walk.

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07-25-2011, 02:57 PM
  #32
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Vlasic-3.5M per
Clowe-4.5M per

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07-25-2011, 03:06 PM
  #33
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Murray's a late bloomer so some people might not realize he's 31 and will be 33 when he's a FA. He keeps himself in good shape and his game's not built on speed anyways but if he loses a step or half a step, could he go from NHL caliber to AHL caliber? I mean look at Cheechoo.

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07-25-2011, 03:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
Murray's a late bloomer so some people might not realize he's 31 and will be 33 when he's a FA. He keeps himself in good shape and his game's not built on speed anyways but if he loses a step or half a step, could he go from NHL caliber to AHL caliber? I mean look at Cheechoo.
Both Murray and Clowe are in the same boat. Neither is fast and they both play a type of game which tends to age the player much faster. I don't think it will be a loss of a step that stops either, but I think other issues will catch up with them.

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07-25-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Both Murray and Clowe are in the same boat. Neither is fast and they both play a type of game which tends to age the player much faster. I don't think it will be a loss of a step that stops either, but I think other issues will catch up with them.
Injuries will hurt them when their are in their mid-thirties, but with the way Murray keeps his body in shape, I am not worried about that.

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07-25-2011, 03:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
Defenseman don't hit their prime until their late 20s-early 30s. How old is Vlasic? And he already has 6 years under his belt and is steady in his own zone? I wouldn't let him walk.
most NHL defenseman are not full-time NHL-ers at the same age as Vlasic was. he's probably closer to his prime than you think.

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07-25-2011, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WedgeAntilles View Post
Gorges is the best comp I've seen so far. I'd take Hejda over Vlasic in a heartbeat.
Vlasic at 3.1 mil is not overpaid. And if they re-signed him for 3.5 mil, that'd be fine too. That's not paying someone to be a top level shutdown d-man. That's a 2nd pairing defensive defenseman's level of pay right about now. Jan Hejda's salary is not comparable because he's 33 and Vlasic is 24. The youth alone covers for that because he's going to be able to give you at least five more years of service where Hejda likely won't. Gorges also isn't a good comp because he was hurt last year with one year to go before UFA. Before that, he was a worse producer than Vlasic and was against second pairing competition. Vlasic at least has one full season of top competition under his belt.

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07-25-2011, 06:36 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Both Murray and Clowe are in the same boat. Neither is fast and they both play a type of game which tends to age the player much faster. I don't think it will be a loss of a step that stops either, but I think other issues will catch up with them.
Do you think they'll go the way of McLaren; their knees or hips give out?

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07-25-2011, 07:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Thepainter View Post
The fact that somebody actually said "let Vlasic walk" is absurd.

GTFO.
That's Mr. Somebody to you bub... and you took my quote entirely out of context. I had a dollar amount attached to that.

Such a scenario would also presume he's still with the team when his contract expires and a deal cannot be made for a reasonable amount.

You know... free agents move on sometimes. It happens.

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07-25-2011, 10:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
That's Mr. Somebody to you bub... and you took my quote entirely out of context. I had a dollar amount attached to that.

Such a scenario would also presume he's still with the team when his contract expires and a deal cannot be made for a reasonable amount.

You know... free agents move on sometimes. It happens.
If he re-signed for 2.5-2.8 I'd be ok with keeping him. He's a good one-dimensional defensive Dman with no physical game, offensive game or transition game.

A good #4....

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07-25-2011, 10:36 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by WedgeAntilles View Post
If he re-signed for 2.5-2.8 I'd be ok with keeping him. He's a good one-dimensional defensive Dman with no physical game, offensive game or transition game.

A good #4....
Vlasic is still very young, and can do a lot more with his game. I just don't think he deserves much a raise. He's been paid pretty well for what he's brought so far.

If this team flounders, then he makes excellent trade bait. If he and the team get a step, or hopefully two, closer to the goal... then we can talk an entirely different number.

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07-25-2011, 10:55 PM
  #42
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He hasn't even hit his prime yet. No he's not a top pairing defenseman, but he isn't paid like on, and won't be paid like one, so I really don't see why anyone would want to let him go.

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07-25-2011, 11:11 PM
  #43
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Vlasic is what, 24 years old? I know it feels like he's been around forever, but, he's still not even in his prime yet. No, he's not going to be a top guy, but yes hes a very serviceable top 4, and upside of a very good #3 D man.

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07-25-2011, 11:18 PM
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why do i feel like he will be the next passenger to get voted off the island?

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07-25-2011, 11:21 PM
  #45
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Vlasic is what, 24 years old? I know it feels like he's been around forever, but, he's still not even in his prime yet. No, he's not going to be a top guy, but yes hes a very serviceable top 4, and upside of a very good #3 D man.
and this season will already be his 6th full season in the nhl, and he hasn't even put anything good together for a full season.

he has a good stick which helps him a bit, but he still hasn't perfected it yet where he can rely on it to stop other players on the rush (which he needs to unless that player is say eager coming down on him)

he isn't good against big guys, he isn't good against skilled stick handlers who have some kind of speed.

he can't make a pass to save his life under pressure, he doesn't know how to hit, he doesn't know how to take a hit to make a play, he can't use his body to clear the crease. he can't seem to get a shot through the net on a regular basis.

he has 0 offensive talent.

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07-25-2011, 11:45 PM
  #46
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All 3 will get at least 4 mil per.

From which teams I don't know.

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07-25-2011, 11:52 PM
  #47
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All 3 will get at least 4 mil per.

From which teams I don't know.
I think you're absolutely correct.

Edit: Wait... no not Murray. Close, but not quite that. Cranky tops out at $3.7 imo.

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07-26-2011, 12:01 AM
  #48
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and this season will already be his 6th full season in the nhl, and he hasn't even put anything good together for a full season.

he has a good stick which helps him a bit, but he still hasn't perfected it yet where he can rely on it to stop other players on the rush (which he needs to unless that player is say eager coming down on him)

he isn't good against big guys, he isn't good against skilled stick handlers who have some kind of speed.

he can't make a pass to save his life under pressure, he doesn't know how to hit, he doesn't know how to take a hit to make a play, he can't use his body to clear the crease. he can't seem to get a shot through the net on a regular basis.

he has 0 offensive talent.
I disagree with your first sentence. His rookie year was obviously solid and his third year putting up 36 points was a solid season. No defensemen is perfect but he is quite simply the Sharks' best defensive defenseman...bar none. If you put him with the right partner, he will flourish like a lot of people do when utilized properly.

It's tough to agree with zero offensive talent when he's at least shown in one year that he can put up the numbers. If you want to rip Vlasic for what he is and isn't as a defenseman, you have to take that some stance with others. More or less, the only reason why a d-man like Murray gets praised while Vlasic gets blasted is because Murray hits but in almost all other capacities as a defenseman, Vlasic is better.

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07-26-2011, 12:14 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
If you want to rip Vlasic for what he is and isn't as a defenseman, you have to take that some stance with others. More or less, the only reason why a d-man like Murray gets praised while Vlasic gets blasted is because Murray hits but in almost all other capacities as a defenseman, Vlasic is better.
Just to comment on that part of your quote: I don't think the comparison is with Vlasic and others... it's Vlasic and himself. Personally, I only compare him with what I hope he would grow to be.

The only comparison between Vlasic and Murray in terms of contract I'd make, is that Murray is older and probably in his prime of primes. He's not going to get much better. Vlasic either will or won't get much better. That's my hang up with him. He's still very young, and still a bit of a risk for a big contract.

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07-26-2011, 12:17 AM
  #50
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I disagree with your first sentence. His rookie year was obviously solid and his third year putting up 36 points was a solid season. No defensemen is perfect but he is quite simply the Sharks' best defensive defenseman...bar none. If you put him with the right partner, he will flourish like a lot of people do when utilized properly.

It's tough to agree with zero offensive talent when he's at least shown in one year that he can put up the numbers. If you want to rip Vlasic for what he is and isn't as a defenseman, you have to take that some stance with others. More or less, the only reason why a d-man like Murray gets praised while Vlasic gets blasted is because Murray hits but in almost all other capacities as a defenseman, Vlasic is better.
Murray protects the puck better, fewer turnovers.

Vlasic's problem with the puck is that he takes far too long getting it settled on his stick and then looking where to send it. He never peeks to see who is open before the puck gets on his stick. Even when he was getting points, he was ice water on the PP. That says a lot about his offensive vision.

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