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Old
07-22-2011, 01:43 PM
  #51
Viqsi
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
SOB takes the brunt of the blame for how close the Anaheim series was due to the fact that they scored on all but one of his penalties. It seriously was a guarantee for Anaheim to score if SOB went to the box. Funny... I never knew until then that SOB was our best PKer
Odd. I never noticed it as being a "SOB in the box -> goal against" thing so much as a "good lord they score on practically every PP" thing.

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07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Odd. I never noticed it as being a "SOB in the box -> goal against" thing so much as a "good lord they score on practically every PP" thing.
True. There wasn't much in the way of actual penalty killing from either side in that series. Five (I believe) of those goals came during SOB penalties, though, so that's why it's easier to remember his follies than, say, the time Erat took a penalty and they scored (just a hypothetical)

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07-22-2011, 02:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
SOB=Meathead

For every one of us accused of overstating his screwups, there is one of you overstating his good play.

Truth is, the jackwagon almost singlehandedly lost the anaheim series. Good riddance!
If you go by your logic then Erat should be off the team for costing us the series against Chicago last year. Heck, one of the assistant coaches should be gone too for out PP going 1 for 26 too.

While I'm a huge fan of talent on a team, there are role players that every team needs. If SOB plays simple hockey along with his toughness, he's a valuable asset. Something is very wrong if he's going to another team this early in his career. Whatever that may be is on him but his muscle and protection of Rinne on the back end is going to be missed sorely. As high as I am on our young D, none of them present a physical presence that an SOB has. Can I live with some of his mistakes if he's going to protect Rinne, I know I can. He was also a decent penalty killer for us as well.

Much like the Klein bashing of a year ago, most people forget he's on the number 1 PK unit. SOB was there as well. Trotz must've liked what he brought to the table.

Poile and Trotz are going a different direction with the blue line this year. I'm fine with it but I also think we're losing some muscle and toughness in the process. Oh well.

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07-22-2011, 02:27 PM
  #54
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I will, like everyone else, was on the Shane sucks wagon. However, looking back on it, he did do some great things. It's crazy,but I wish we didn't let him walk to Colorado, and now even more so with Francis suffering right now. I love our young guys coming up, but lets be real, you cannot rely on them to start the season off. It looks like we need to hit up a FA defensemen with some size. If Lebda even sniffs our starting roster, I'm going to go ape s***.

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07-22-2011, 02:53 PM
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I think all the points folks make about penalties, etc., play into it, but at the end of the day we are loaded with kids and most are ready to play up here, not at Milw. We still have Frankie, too. So, given SOB sure wasn't gonna' get a decrease in salary, what sense would it make to sign him? Sure, *maybe* he brought a little toughness we don't otherwise have, but I doubt that bit of an intangible is worth keeping one of the kids back another couple years.

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07-22-2011, 06:55 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
I think all the points folks make about penalties, etc., play into it, but at the end of the day we are loaded with kids and most are ready to play up here, not at Milw. We still have Frankie, too. So, given SOB sure wasn't gonna' get a decrease in salary, what sense would it make to sign him? Sure, *maybe* he brought a little toughness we don't otherwise have, but I doubt that bit of an intangible is worth keeping one of the kids back another couple years.
I thought we had him last year at 1.5 million. He signed with the Avs for 1.1 for one year. I would easily sign him to that deal. Really I can see both sides of the argument. I think his "boneheaded" play is overstated. Obviously during the first few games of the Anaheim series it was bad but in the scope of the whole year I don't think it was nearly as bad as SOB's reputation would lead you to believe. There are certain parts of his game we will miss some we won't miss at all. Looking at the team though I don't think you can go wrong with Ellis, Josi or Ekholm either though. Don't blame Poile for trying out the kids and if they fail you can always pick up a veteran bottom pairing D-man during the season.

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07-22-2011, 08:15 PM
  #57
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god, i can't believe poile let bouillon go to injury. how are we gonna replace him? he was our only translator when we go to montreal with dumont gone. fire poile.





























/sarcasm #skyisfalling

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07-23-2011, 01:05 AM
  #58
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Guess some people look for things when they aren't there

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07-24-2011, 03:31 PM
  #59
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SOB = 3rd pair journeyman d-man who recently singed for his 5th team in 6 season. When his defenders are saying he just tried to overplay his skillset, not make bonehead plays ... it shows a tendency to make on ice mistakes no matter how much you want to candycoat the terminology.

We let a 3rd pair, expendable, replaceable, role player go to the market ... not Orr/Stevens/Niedermeyer.

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07-24-2011, 03:35 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
SOB = 3rd pair journeyman d-man who recently singed for his 5th team in 6 season. When his defenders are saying he just tried to overplay his skillset, not make bonehead plays ... it shows a tendency to make on ice mistakes no matter how much you want to candycoat the terminology.

We let a 3rd pair, expendable, replaceable, role player go to the market ... not Orr/Stevens/Niedermeyer.
Ok, so what now then? Scour the market for a Hannan, Campoli (def help our cap number), or Morrison from the Sabres who they are all convinced will be sent to the minors? Or roll with 3 rook dmen, which I think is a terrible idea.

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07-24-2011, 04:02 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
SOB = 3rd pair journeyman d-man who recently singed for his 5th team in 6 season. When his defenders are saying he just tried to overplay his skillset, not make bonehead plays ... it shows a tendency to make on ice mistakes no matter how much you want to candycoat the terminology.

We let a 3rd pair, expendable, replaceable, role player go to the market ... not Orr/Stevens/Niedermeyer.
I think you're missing what some of us are saying. He's not any of the three you mentioned but he's a role player that stands up for his teammates and protects his goalie. Who on the blue line is going to do that now? Weber and Klein are the only two. There was a big deal a few years back when Weber was getting into tussles and people didn't want that for two reasons: injury and he's sitting in the box for 5. Well, can we afford to have him sit in the box protecting Rinne? Can we afford Klein to sit in the box for 5 too? Probably not. So who's going to make sure Pekka is protected back there, our 4 other guys under 200 pounds?

I'm all for talent and skill but there's a reason you have a guy like SOB on your roster. Josi, Blum, Ellis, Laakso and Ekholm will not bring the physical presence that an SOB has. Are they more skilled, sure. What are they going to do when Pekka gets run the first time by a guy like Getzlaf? We'll end up losing Rinne and the defenseman who gets his face pummeled to injury.

SOB is not the answer long term but he filled a certain role that we don't have anyone on the team to fill right now.

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07-24-2011, 04:23 PM
  #62
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I find myself agreeing with 101st to an extent. SOB's one decent quality is easily replaceable. What I disagree with is the premise. Outside of maybe a few posters, I don't think anyone is trying to down play his poor qualities. In my estimation, the majority opinion is that SOB provides physicality while sacrificing hockey IQ.

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07-24-2011, 04:33 PM
  #63
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Face washing people after the whistle is a massively overrated quality in a player. I did love SOB at times but I also hated him at times. I'd rather have a player who I "kind of like" 100% of the time. Or even open up a spot for one of our talented defensive prospects.

I know signing a dman vet late in the season is a tradition of Poile's, but I think this year we really do go with what we have.

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07-24-2011, 04:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I think you're missing what some of us are saying. He's not any of the three you mentioned but he's a role player that stands up for his teammates and protects his goalie. Who on the blue line is going to do that now? Weber and Klein are the only two. There was a big deal a few years back when Weber was getting into tussles and people didn't want that for two reasons: injury and he's sitting in the box for 5. Well, can we afford to have him sit in the box protecting Rinne? Can we afford Klein to sit in the box for 5 too? Probably not. So who's going to make sure Pekka is protected back there, our 4 other guys under 200 pounds?

I'm all for talent and skill but there's a reason you have a guy like SOB on your roster. Josi, Blum, Ellis, Laakso and Ekholm will not bring the physical presence that an SOB has. Are they more skilled, sure. What are they going to do when Pekka gets run the first time by a guy like Getzlaf? We'll end up losing Rinne and the defenseman who gets his face pummeled to injury.

SOB is not the answer long term but he filled a certain role that we don't have anyone on the team to fill right now.
Is Ekholm still under 200? He was 194 at the draft two years ago. Laakso and COR are both over 200. Josi is right at 200. That leaves Blum and Ellis as the under 200 crowd. But I digress.

SOB is a REPLACEABLE role player. Four teams have had him and let him go over the past five seasons and a fifth team has him under contract for season number six. Let's look at how we got him ... a trade in OCTOBER!!!!! There are those apparently mourning his departure because another Sep/Oct acquisition is suffering a setback in his recovery from a concussion (Cube). These are camp pickup players, there are more out there, we can get one, it will be ok, there is no need for a new AFDB (aluminum foil deflector beanie).

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07-24-2011, 06:22 PM
  #65
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I was surprised with what O'Brien brought. His physical play was good for us. He stood up for his teammates and from the looks of things looked like a good team guy (obviously I'm not in the locker room). He was a good PKer. However, with the puck he was terrible and was responsible for putting Franson in very bad situations with the puck. He also killed alot of our time in the offensive zone with his inability to play the puck.

I think he was a good player for us but I think it is time to let some of our younger defensemen step up. Now if they crap the bed, then yeah we are in trouble.

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07-24-2011, 08:32 PM
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We did add Stortini, and i'd rather have a 4th liner who we can afford to have in the box 5-10 minutes a night playing the enforcer role than a defenseman which really messes with the defense pairings/rotation when he goes off for a major.

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07-24-2011, 09:11 PM
  #67
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We did add Stortini, and i'd rather have a 4th liner who we can afford to have in the box 5-10 minutes a night playing the enforcer role than a defenseman which really messes with the defense pairings/rotation when he goes off for a major.
From all accounts, Stortini's is the farthest thing away from an enforcer.

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07-25-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Face washing people after the whistle is a massively overrated quality in a player. I did love SOB at times but I also hated him at times. I'd rather have a player who I "kind of like" 100% of the time. Or even open up a spot for one of our talented defensive prospects.

I know signing a dman vet late in the season is a tradition of Poile's, but I think this year we really do go with what we have.
Um, who said anything about face-washing? I believe EVERYONE is talking about clearing out the crease when there is a rebound laying there. Right now, we have 5 dmen who would rather poke at the puck to keep possession rather than take the body to clear out the crease. I just don't see Suter, Blum, Josi, Ellis, and Klein punishing people that are hoping to make a run at Pekka.

SOB did that. Boullion did that. Without both of those two, the muscle is lost on our blueline.

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07-25-2011, 04:56 PM
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Um, who said anything about face-washing? I believe EVERYONE is talking about clearing out the crease when there is a rebound laying there. Right now, we have 5 dmen who would rather poke at the puck to keep possession rather than take the body to clear out the crease. I just don't see Suter, Blum, Josi, Ellis, and Klein punishing people that are hoping to make a run at Pekka.

SOB did that. Boullion did that. Without both of those two, the muscle is lost on our blueline.
But remember, LEBDA has been added.

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07-25-2011, 05:16 PM
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I find myself agreeing with 101st to an extent. SOB's one decent quality is easily replaceable. What I disagree with is the premise. Outside of maybe a few posters, I don't think anyone is trying to down play his poor qualities. In my estimation, the majority opinion is that SOB provides physicality while sacrificing hockey IQ.
I think your downplaying the physical aspect of the game and that is what O'Brien brought to the team and he instilled in Weber how to play the physical game and Weber was a beast in the playoffs. I think too many are looking at salary and forgetting the aspect of the game. Sure you can play this guy and that guy who is cheaper and if that's all that matter then we'll be playing that game and watching the playoffs because the physical aspect is huge part of the game like it or not

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07-25-2011, 05:46 PM
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I think your downplaying the physical aspect of the game and that is what O'Brien brought to the team and he instilled in Weber how to play the physical game and Weber was a beast in the playoffs. I think too many are looking at salary and forgetting the aspect of the game. Sure you can play this guy and that guy who is cheaper and if that's all that matter then we'll be playing that game and watching the playoffs because the physical aspect is huge part of the game like it or not
You really think SOB taught Shea Weber how to play physical and be a beast?

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07-25-2011, 05:48 PM
  #72
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Shea Weber didnt need SOB to teach him how to be a physical presence..

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07-25-2011, 07:18 PM
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You really think SOB taught Shea Weber how to play physical and be a beast?
I saw it this year in playoffs and I didn't see it last year in the playoffs or in the past. That being said you can't instill something to someone who doesn't have it in them he just brought a physical play and a playoff intensity that had been missing on this team in previous seasons and playoffs and everyone picked up on it and the Ducks and even the Nucks weren't going to push us around which was a major factor in us winning the first round and taking the Nucks to six games. Sometimes it take not a major star but a role player that has been in the wars of the playoffs to understand what it takes to take their games to the next level

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07-25-2011, 07:18 PM
  #74
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I think your downplaying the physical aspect of the game and that is what O'Brien brought to the team and he instilled in Weber how to play the physical game and Weber was a beast in the playoffs. I think too many are looking at salary and forgetting the aspect of the game. Sure you can play this guy and that guy who is cheaper and if that's all that matter then we'll be playing that game and watching the playoffs because the physical aspect is huge part of the game like it or not
I don't think I'm downplaying the physical aspect of the game at all. I'm still of the opinion that a big, gritty veteran on the blueline would be nice. My point is that you have to be careful with the player you sign to fill that role. Yes SOB brought good physicality and yes he played well on the PK. One of the reasons he left me wanting to pull out my hair is his Bobby Orr impersonation. Another is his propensity to go completely brain dead and take a dumb penalty. I understand physical guys will take penalties, and that's fine as long as it doesn't happen every game. Defensemen will often take penalties breaking up a play. Defensemen who get themselves out of position (for instance, defensemen who pick poor times to pinch) will have to take more penalties breaking up more chances, or will put a teammate in a situation where the best option is to take a penalty. When you crosscheck a guy in the back of the head you're just being stupid. When you want to throw punches instead of face washes you're being stupid. Weber is guilty of this at times, too. Taking a fight with a guy while your team has a lead is dumb. Taking a second fight with the guy because he embarrassed you the first time is letting your pride get in the way of good decision making. SOB just doesn't make good decisions when he starts going. He plays with entirely too much emotion, and not nearly enough smarts.

And I do not agree one bit that Weber was spurred on by SOB. Weber has been a physical force for a few seasons now. He was throwing hits and crushing people's desire to lace up the skates before SOB was even on our team. If anything Weber was leading the entire team to a more physical style. The captain is going to have more influence than anyone else on the team, or at least he should.

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07-25-2011, 07:36 PM
  #75
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I don't think I'm downplaying the physical aspect of the game at all. I'm still of the opinion that a big, gritty veteran on the blueline would be nice. My point is that you have to be careful with the player you sign to fill that role. Yes SOB brought good physicality and yes he played well on the PK. One of the reasons he left me wanting to pull out my hair is his Bobby Orr impersonation. Another is his propensity to go completely brain dead and take a dumb penalty. I understand physical guys will take penalties, and that's fine as long as it doesn't happen every game. Defensemen will often take penalties breaking up a play. Defensemen who get themselves out of position (for instance, defensemen who pick poor times to pinch) will have to take more penalties breaking up more chances, or will put a teammate in a situation where the best option is to take a penalty. When you crosscheck a guy in the back of the head you're just being stupid. When you want to throw punches instead of face washes you're being stupid. Weber is guilty of this at times, too. Taking a fight with a guy while your team has a lead is dumb. Taking a second fight with the guy because he embarrassed you the first time is letting your pride get in the way of good decision making. SOB just doesn't make good decisions when he starts going. He plays with entirely too much emotion, and not nearly enough smarts.

And I do not agree one bit that Weber was spurred on by SOB. Weber has been a physical force for a few seasons now. He was throwing hits and crushing people's desire to lace up the skates before SOB was even on our team. If anything Weber was leading the entire team to a more physical style. The captain is going to have more influence than anyone else on the team, or at least he should.
I understand that SOB is not the most gifted defenseman far from it and he played his role and I too was frustrated when he try to be offensive but I think he did it mostly to try to generate some offense on offensive challenged team. During the Duck series it was SOB who standing up for his teamates and clearing the net and taking the brunt of the punishment that the Ducks were trying to push us around. I remember one particular incident when Perry punched Sk and SOB immediately took up for and went after Perry which said your going to pay the price for picking on our soft little forward. Weber this year was nominated for the Norris and I think SOB was an influence and many of times I saw Weber and Suter talking with SOB during timeouts down the stretch and especially in the playoffs. This all being said I understand what I think the Preds are doing is that we can't afford to spend lots of money on role players when Weber is due lots of money and hopefully frees up money to get a top 6 forward. The thinking if it's one area this team can sacrifice where Trotz can excel at teaching young defenseman if you have to make sacrifices in order for other things to happen

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