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Jagr expectations?

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Old
07-24-2011, 03:00 PM
  #151
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That'd be hilarious/awesome if he puts up over 80 pts.

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07-24-2011, 03:04 PM
  #152
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I agree with the first bit. It would be hillarious.

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07-24-2011, 03:52 PM
  #153
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I think Jagr feels like he has something to prove, and will play with a chip on his shoulder. I would be happy with around 60 points, but I would not be shocked to see him hit 70. Him with Giroux or Briere will be a sick combo.

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07-25-2011, 05:05 AM
  #154
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I was trying to think the other day of any player who has returned from playing in Europe as the same player, or put up similar numbers.

I can't think of any off the top of my head. This doesn't include the lockout.

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07-25-2011, 05:23 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I was trying to think the other day of any player who has returned from playing in Europe as the same player, or put up similar numbers.

I can't think of any off the top of my head. This doesn't include the lockout.
First think of a player similar in stature to Jagr who has returned from Europe. Good luck with that.

I don't get people who think that a 39 year old Jagr still won't be the most naturally talented player in the league. Did you guys not see him play? I hate him, I hate having him on the team, but he'll score a ton. 20-30 points? He'll have that by January 1st.

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07-25-2011, 12:48 PM
  #156
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60-70 pts and every game it will be totally odd seeing him in O&B. Though it will be refreshing to see him in a highlight not narrated by Mike Lange, god i hated that guy.

anyone know his shootout %, he's got to be good on those

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07-25-2011, 04:49 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
60-70 pts and every game it will be totally odd seeing him in O&B. Though it will be refreshing to see him in a highlight not narrated by Mike Lange, god i hated that guy.

anyone know his shootout %, he's got to be good on those
He didn't usually participate in shootouts with the Rangers.

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07-25-2011, 04:58 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
He didn't usually participate in shootouts with the Rangers.
Jagr was 2nd on the Rangers with 9 attempts on 06/07. And was 3rd on the team in 07/08 with 5 attempts.

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07-25-2011, 07:45 PM
  #159
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How many 40+ players in NHL history have a PPG (or damn close to it) or more during an 82 game season I'll start:

Teemu Selanne
Gordie Howe

I seriously think those might be the only 2.

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07-26-2011, 07:47 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
How many 40+ players in NHL history have a PPG (or damn close to it) or more during an 82 game season I'll start:

Teemu Selanne
Gordie Howe

I seriously think those might be the only 2.
Jagr isn't even 40 yet and will be near the end of the 2011-12 season. Jagr hasn't had the wear and tear of other players close to his age because of playing in a far less grueling league and schedule in the KHL for the last 3 years.

He's healthy, fresh, motivated (has something to prove), faster than he was 3 years ago, lighter, more fit and I see no reason why he won't be PPG.

BTW I would think Jagr is closer to Gordie Howe's level of talent than Selanne is.

You only mentioned PPG, but what about those who were still elite in the late 30's, early 40's?

Brodeur, Roloson, Chelios, Howe, Lidstrom, Sakic, Recchi, Lemieux, Gretzky, all had great seasons as they got older.

I think you underestimate the fact that Jagr has far less wear and tear on him than most of those players did since hasn't played in the NHL.


Last edited by livewell68: 07-26-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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07-26-2011, 02:21 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Jagr isn't even 40 yet and will be near the end of the 2011-12 season. Jagr hasn't had the wear and tear of other players close to his age because of playing in a far less grueling league and schedule in the KHL for the last 3 years.

He's healthy, fresh, motivated (has something to prove), faster than he was 3 years ago, lighter, more fit and I see no reason why he won't be PPG.

BTW I would think Jagr is closer to Gordie Howe's level of talent than Selanne is.

You only mentioned PPG, but what about those who were still elite in the late 30's, early 40's?

Brodeur, Roloson, Chelios, Howe, Lidstrom, Sakic, Recchi, Lemieux, Gretzky, all had great seasons as they got older.

I think you underestimate the fact that Jagr has far less wear and tear on him than most of those players did since hasn't played in the NHL.
You say "you see no reason he can't be a PPG player."

I show you that out of all the players who have ever played the game, only a handful of guys have ever actually done it at 39/40; and for some of them you've got to go back... WAAAYYYYYY back.

Is it impossible that he comes here and puts up a PPG? No, it's not outside of the realm of possibility.

Do I think Jagr will be one of those? No. I think it's much more reasonable to expect his ceiling to be an .8 clip (66 pts) or a .7 clip (58 pts).

Also I'm not so sure that playing in a "less greuling league and schedule" in the KHL has better prepared him better for the punishing, two-way, 82 game season in the NHL.

I wish I could share you optimism, but I have far too many doubts.

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07-26-2011, 02:31 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
You say "you see no reason he can't be a PPG player."

I show you that out of all the players who have ever played the game, only a handful of guys have ever actually done it at 39/40; and for some of them you've got to go back... WAAAYYYYYY back.

Is it impossible that he comes here and puts up a PPG? No, it's not outside of the realm of possibility.

Do I think Jagr will be one of those? No. I think it's much more reasonable to expect his ceiling to be an .8 clip (66 pts) or a .7 clip (58 pts).

Also I'm not so sure that playing in a "less greuling league and schedule" in the KHL has better prepared him better for the punishing, two-way, 82 game season in the NHL.

I wish I could share you optimism, but I have far too many doubts.
This is a player who dominated the "Dead Puck Era", an era known for the punishment and grueling effects of an entire season.

He's 6'3, 225-230 lbs and his size and strength alone will be huge. Add to that that his legs have kept up and he's faster (due to losing weight since 2007-08) and you can see where my optimism comes from. The minimal wear and tear in the KHL has allowed Jagr to keep his legs fresh and he's healthy.

Jagr knows what to expect, knows it's a grueling league. it's not like he last played in the NHL 10 years ago or something. He wouldn't come back to the NHL if he didn't think he could keep up with the grueling NHL season.

He himself said if he wasn't ready for the NHL he would have stayed in the KHL, made more money tax free, played a far less grueling schedule and would still be considered a superstar there.

He chose the NHL because he knows he can keep up. Keeping up for other players is 40-60 Pts, keeping up for Jagr means elite level.

That's what happens when you're Jagr, that is the level he has always been measured to.

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07-26-2011, 02:38 PM
  #163
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Something tells me this guy won't have the gall to come posting round these parts next spring.

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07-26-2011, 02:47 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
Something tells me this guy won't have the gall to come posting round these parts next spring.
Why not? People are really underestimating what Jagr can do. I'm simply saying that I think people are selling him short.

You go on the main Forum and some people are saying that Yashin can score 60 Pts.

So now Yashin is capable of scoring 60 but for someone to think Jagr will score PPG is crazy?

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07-26-2011, 03:09 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
How many 40+ players in NHL history have a PPG (or damn close to it) or more during an 82 game season I'll start:

Teemu Selanne
Gordie Howe

I seriously think those might be the only 2.
I hope this doesn't happen, but Jagr could play all 82 games and not score a point, and still be a PPG player in the NHL. He has 1,599 points in 1,273 games.

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07-26-2011, 03:10 PM
  #166
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I hope he gets at least 1 point. 1,599 bothers me for some reason. 1600 is much easier.

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07-26-2011, 03:22 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Stop it. There are a few guys who's talents rival Jagr's at his peak, and haven't yet begun to erode with age. Crosby, Ovie, Stamkos, etc.
Jagr had almost the same numbers they have at their age, and it was pre-lockout (hooking, holding, etc were allowed). Jagr in today's NHL would have been way better than them.

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07-26-2011, 03:31 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
Jagr had almost the same numbers they have at their age, and it was pre-lockout (hooking, holding, etc were allowed). Jagr in today's NHL would have been way better than them.
Exactly. In fact Jagr scored more in 2005-06 than any of Stamkos, Ovechkin and Crosby have yet to score in a season and Jagr was 34 and passed his prime.

Jagr took a bit longer to hit his stride because of the stacked team he played on and the fact that he had limited ice time early on in his career, but once he did hit his stride, he won 5 Art Ross trophies.

I don't think Ovechkin, Stamkos or Crosby have what it takes to win 5 Art Ross trophies.


Last edited by livewell68: 07-27-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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07-26-2011, 03:38 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
You say "you see no reason he can't be a PPG player."

I show you that out of all the players who have ever played the game, only a handful of guys have ever actually done it at 39/40; and for some of them you've got to go back... WAAAYYYYYY back.

Is it impossible that he comes here and puts up a PPG? No, it's not outside of the realm of possibility.

Do I think Jagr will be one of those? No. I think it's much more reasonable to expect his ceiling to be an .8 clip (66 pts) or a .7 clip (58 pts).

Also I'm not so sure that playing in a "less greuling league and schedule" in the KHL has better prepared him better for the punishing, two-way, 82 game season in the NHL.

I wish I could share you optimism, but I have far too many doubts.
You do realize that the only guys in NHL history who have won more Art Ross trophies than Jagr are named Gretzky, Lemieux, and Howe, right?

Jagr is one of the top offensive talents in the history of the league. It is not unreasonable to expect 70 points out of him, nor a PPG. He scored 71 points in his last year in the NHL on a club that had an absolutely wretched offense. You realize this is a guy who is 9th on the all time scorer's list, despite playing the last three seasons in Russia. There's a good chance had he stayed in the league he'd have been likely in the # 4 spot by now, within striking distance of the # 2 spot. Oh, by the way, he did a lot of that scoring in the DPE.

People getting indignant with others who think he can still score at a PPG clip in this league because his is a unique talent that simply won't disappear are being silly. You have your opinions and expectations and that's fine. There's easily a case to be made that Jagr is special enough of a player that he'll still score a ton. You can disagree, but don't act as if it's absurd to think that one of the great offensive talents in the history of the league can still play at 39.

Now will you guys please stop making me argue in favor of the player I hate more than any other player in the league.

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07-28-2011, 05:21 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Jagr isn't even 40 yet and will be near the end of the 2011-12 season. Jagr hasn't had the wear and tear of other players close to his age because of playing in a far less grueling league and schedule in the KHL for the last 3 years.

He's healthy, fresh, motivated (has something to prove), faster than he was 3 years ago, lighter, more fit and I see no reason why he won't be PPG.

BTW I would think Jagr is closer to Gordie Howe's level of talent than Selanne is.

You only mentioned PPG, but what about those who were still elite in the late 30's, early 40's?

Brodeur, Roloson, Chelios, Howe, Lidstrom, Sakic, Recchi, Lemieux, Gretzky, all had great seasons as they got older.

I think you underestimate the fact that Jagr has far less wear and tear on him than most of those players did since hasn't played in the NHL.
Then we sure did get Jagr cheap. I think Jagr is a hit or miss on the Flyers but he still looks like he's got it.

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07-30-2011, 03:56 PM
  #171
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http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...for-new-season

This article shows that Jagr is already training. I'm 100% confident that Jagr will be a PPG player this coming season. This is the most motivated Jagr has ever been.

30-40 goals, 50-65 assists for 80-95 Pts.

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07-30-2011, 06:10 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...for-new-season

This article shows that Jagr is already training. I'm 100% confident that Jagr will be a PPG player this coming season. This is the most motivated Jagr has ever been.

30-40 goals, 50-65 assists for 80-95 Pts.
The original Czech Article says Jagr is doing on ice training twice a day, not twice a week

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07-30-2011, 08:28 PM
  #173
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I expect something like 30 G (12 PP) - 45 A. PPG could easily be argued. Top 10 in the league in points wouldn't shock me at all. Top 5 would.

And I still don't know if I will ever get used to Jagr being a Flyer. I always respected his ability to control the pace of the game, except when he played against Philly.

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07-30-2011, 10:44 PM
  #174
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65 - 90 Points!


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07-30-2011, 11:11 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Jagr isn't even 40 yet and will be near the end of the 2011-12 season. Jagr hasn't had the wear and tear of other players close to his age because of playing in a far less grueling league and schedule in the KHL for the last 3 years.

He's healthy, fresh, motivated (has something to prove), faster than he was 3 years ago, lighter, more fit and I see no reason why he won't be PPG.

BTW I would think Jagr is closer to Gordie Howe's level of talent than Selanne is.

You only mentioned PPG, but what about those who were still elite in the late 30's, early 40's?

Brodeur, Roloson, Chelios, Howe, Lidstrom, Sakic, Recchi, Lemieux, Gretzky, all had great seasons as they got older.

I think you underestimate the fact that Jagr has far less wear and tear on him than most of those players did since hasn't played in the NHL.
Goalies and Defensemen are a lot different than forwards. THe other guys are all poor comparisons for various reasons, in some cases because they're retired and weren't even Jagr's age yet at the time they did.

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