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Rangers will not buyout Wojtek Wolski

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Old
07-27-2011, 03:42 PM
  #151
Levitate
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Most of those players actually start playing a different game in order to succeed though. Coaches just don't magically get a floating, non competitive player to suddenly start producing while still being floating and non competitive. The players actually have to change something in how they approach the game and if they don't, then they won't get better

So...I dunno, everyone's such an expert, how do you get the most out of someone like Zherdev or Wolski? What kind of magical soft touch is needed to make these buttercups turn into reliable players?

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07-27-2011, 05:35 PM
  #152
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The best sports coaches are both strategic and motivational. Is the ideal coach a myth? One could argue that Scotty Bowman was the ideal hockey coach. Certainly, results seem to support that.

I would suggest that for a head coach of a competitive team sport, motivation is more important than strategy. The best coaches are known to be the best motivators (Vince Lombardi comes to mind, or even Herb Brooks). The head coach is seen as the ultimate authority, responsible for the team's on-ice performance. He can always hire assistant coaches that know the strategic aspects of the game better than he, and are able to provide tactics and strategies to complement his knowledge.

But if he can't motivate people, unless his team is full of 100% self-motivators, it will not play to potential, and even then, it may not have a single voice to unify everyone's efforts and keep them on the same page.

The TEAM needs both strategic minds & motivation to win, but these can come from more than one person. The head coach, as the figurehead of the coaching staff, needs the ability to provide motivation more than strategic thinking.

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07-27-2011, 06:07 PM
  #153
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Gross wrote this today about Rangers' not buying out Wolski as well.

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Now that the Rangers have avoided arbitration with Ryan Callahan as the right wing agreed to a three-year deal worth $12.875 million on Wednesday ($4.275 million salary cap hit), there will be a 48-hour window starting at midnight in case the team chooses to buy out any players on the roster to create some cap flexibility.
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But not only is there no buyout of Wolski coming over the next couple of days, itís almost a near certainty he will not be traded between now and the start of training.
http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/r...nt_expect_one/

I know that they'll probably carry 13 F and 7 D, but what is this obsession with carrying extra players? Remove dead space. There has to be some wiggle room throughout the season and at the deadline for moves, otherwise you're handicapped.

Sorry, I just don't see the point in carrying 13 F and 7 D. I can understand ONE extra player in the press box each night, but two and three and four is massively redundant. We don't need an extra around for each position, it's wasted cap space.

I don't think they should buyout Wolski but they definitely need to remove at least 2 forwards, especially considering that there will probably be at least 1 rookie that will make the team. Said it before and I'll say it again: there is NO reason why Avery or Christensen should play on this team this year. None. Zero. Zip.

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07-27-2011, 06:21 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Sorry, I just don't see the point in carrying 13 F and 7 D. I can understand ONE extra player in the press box each night, but two and three and four is massively redundant. We don't need an extra around for each position, it's wasted cap space.
The point is to give the coach flexibility. He can decide someone is too banged up during warmups, needs to sit due to an off-ice issue, needs rest, or what have you, without having to have a 4+ hour window to get someone up from Hartford.

With either only 12 F or 6 D, you don't have that flexibility. There is no point to only carrying 12F/7D or 13F/6D unless you have someone on your roster who can reliably play both F and D to NHL standards.

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07-28-2011, 09:57 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
The best sports coaches are both strategic and motivational. Is the ideal coach a myth? One could argue that Scotty Bowman was the ideal hockey coach. Certainly, results seem to support that.

I would suggest that for a head coach of a competitive team sport, motivation is more important than strategy. The best coaches are known to be the best motivators (Vince Lombardi comes to mind, or even Herb Brooks). The head coach is seen as the ultimate authority, responsible for the team's on-ice performance. He can always hire assistant coaches that know the strategic aspects of the game better than he, and are able to provide tactics and strategies to complement his knowledge.

But if he can't motivate people, unless his team is full of 100% self-motivators, it will not play to potential, and even then, it may not have a single voice to unify everyone's efforts and keep them on the same page.

The TEAM needs both strategic minds & motivation to win, but these can come from more than one person. The head coach, as the figurehead of the coaching staff, needs the ability to provide motivation more than strategic thinking.
You're correct. And I am not to criticize Torts to prove he is a bad coach. He's just bad for the Rangers. Rangers need Renney type of coach with better ability to motivate. They got a motivator with no ability (and no desire, therefore) to teach. The other sign of greatness in coach is his ability to change the strategy to adopt to the need of particular group his has, to form the structure in order to better address players abilities. What we have in Torts is quite limited strategist who wants the players to fit his needs right away. Since he is unable to work with players in order to bring about change in their game, he can only show them the bench and then the door.
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
So...I dunno, everyone's such an expert, how do you get the most out of someone like Zherdev or Wolski? What kind of magical soft touch is needed to make these buttercups turn into reliable players?
In Torts case you shouldn't have them on the team. I, therefore, can't wait for Torts to get fired because Rangers will never have the palyers he wants i.e. allStar Team.


Last edited by 94now: 07-28-2011 at 10:03 AM.
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07-28-2011, 10:02 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
You're correct. And I am not to criticize Torts to prove he is a bad coach. He just bad for the Rangers. Rangers need Renney type of coach with better ability to motivate. They got a motivator with no ability (and no desire, therefore) to teach. The other sign of greatness in coach is his ability to change the strategy to adopt to the need of particular group his has, to form the structure in order to better address players abilities. What we have in Torts is quite limited strategist who wants the players to fit his needs right away. Since he is unable to work with players in order to bring about change in their game, he can only show them the bench and then the door.
We needed a player friendly Renney during the Jagr years, not now.

I wasn't a huge fan of Torts when he got here but last season he seemed to have a change in attitude and thinking. I was worried about him ruining youth and stuff like that but as we can all see the youth is pretty much thriving and by all accounts happy. He's a good coach strategist too so can't agree on that one, Renney was terrible in that regard some times. I like both coaches but the Renney ship sailed and Torts has us headed in the right direction.

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07-28-2011, 10:38 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
We needed a player friendly Renney during the Jagr years, not now.

I wasn't a huge fan of Torts when he got here but last season he seemed to have a change in attitude and thinking. I was worried about him ruining youth and stuff like that but as we can all see the youth is pretty much thriving and by all accounts happy. He's a good coach strategist too so can't agree on that one, Renney was terrible in that regard some times. I like both coaches but the Renney ship sailed and Torts has us headed in the right direction.
The team did not get better since Jagr years. It got worse. Youth is thriving because of salary cup, not the coach. And what youth did get in under Torts, as far as forwards are concerned, anyway? We could use Torts after Muckler was fired, not now. Torts needs self coached performers that need to be pushed a little extra. He would be perfect for the country club we had 10 years ago when elite players were under-performing. We have no elite players except for fragile Gaborik and Richards who has just signed huge contract and is questionable like anyone who got covered for life. Torts may succeed and as fan I wish he would, but if he fails it could be disastrous. I maintain that his failure is more likely. He will not finish this season.

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07-28-2011, 10:47 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
The point is to give the coach flexibility. He can decide someone is too banged up during warmups, needs to sit due to an off-ice issue, needs rest, or what have you, without having to have a 4+ hour window to get someone up from Hartford.

With either only 12 F or 6 D, you don't have that flexibility. There is no point to only carrying 12F/7D or 13F/6D unless you have someone on your roster who can reliably play both F and D to NHL standards.
Not to mention that when sending players down and back some must pass through waivers exposing them to being lost.

Injuries will happen and you can't just expect to call someone up every time something happens. Better to have a few guys who practice with the team, know the system and the players and are comfortable.

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07-28-2011, 11:09 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I like both coaches but the Renney ship sailed and Torts has us headed in the right direction.
To expand on the nautical theme, Reeney was the harbor master, who took us gently away from the dock and navigated the shallows as the crew learned their way around ship. But out in the open ocean, you need a guy like Torts to be at the wheel who can push through the storms and command the now seasoned crew with authority.

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07-28-2011, 11:27 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I don't think it is a coach's fault that Grachev dominated the OHL due to his size advantage, and the caliber of his suppoting. Like a lot of "power forwards" or "big, nasty defensemen," their physical gifts can be advantageous in the short-term, but actually hinder their development as NHLers in the long term because they learn to play the game in a fashion that is not possible to recreate in the NHL, and re-learning such an instinctual game is not always easy.
You, in essense, just said that Grachev needs coaching. Good lack with that as Rangers no longer offer such a thing! They didn't do that in the past either, but now we seem to have an approach in place that you are advocating. That is to rid of players that need work. That is how we end up with the team full of plumbers. We will never win big with our best named Dubinski and Callahan.

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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Wolski played his ass off when Phoenix acquired him, and then the next season, sucked again. Same coach. So it's Tippett's fault? Very good coach, by the way.
That is why Sather let him go to Dallas, lol. Tippets might be overburden with all the garbage Malone dumped on him.
Rangers cannot get anyone better. All they do is picking 1st rounders up that are refused by others. In case of Boyle it worked out as Torts made checker out of him and, as I said earlier, Torts is good in making bottom 6 better. He cannot help Wolski at all since he doesn't know anything else.

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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Hitchock may have been willing to go the "live with it" scenario, but he did essentially give up trying to make Zherdev play the right way. At some point, the tension and amount of time spent in trying to turn Zherdev into a polished player decreased dramatically.
We all know what happen when "time spent decreased dramatically". Money spent increases dramatically. That is what Columbus doing now. Sure Carter is better that Zherdev will ever be, but should they forget they drafted future elite F and settle for secondary scorer Zherdev is, they wouldn't have that very hole in their lineup right now. Same for the Rangers.



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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I don't think that's so much Torts' philosophy as it is the only realistic way to build a contending, or near-contending team out of what he had to work with when he arrived, and something that could be done in 3-4 years time.
So you're agree in other words.
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It's not about having no idea how to use someone, it's about valuing effort and consistency more than infrequent displays of offensive flair. Also, comparing Lisin and Frolov to Zherdev and Wolski is not right. Frolov has always been more of a defensive forward than an offensive one, and Lisin is just a horrible player with no idea of what is going on out there.
As I said I am not Lisin fan. I didnt hold my breath when Korpikoski played either. As for Frolov, there is no defensive forwards in 1st round. Never will be. He was made one by Murry and to no surprize Torts liked the guy. I did not.
I think if Wolski not bought out, he could be placed on re-entry after being sent to Hartford. Someone wil pick him up. It could be more expensive, but might worth to try. I don't think it will happen after the camp, but who knows...


Last edited by 94now: 07-28-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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07-28-2011, 11:32 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I think if Wolski not bought out, he could be placed on re-entry after being sent to Hartford. Someone wil pick him up. It could be more expensive, but might worth to try. I don't think it happenafter the camp, but who knows...
Why would we place him on re-entry? If we sit him in Hartford, it's just Dolan burning more of his money, which is obviously no issue for him. If we put him on re-entry and he's claimed, then it's dead cap space for us. I don't understand the point.

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07-28-2011, 11:35 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by skroob View Post
To expand on the nautical theme, Reeney was the harbor master, who took us gently away from the dock and navigated the shallows as the crew learned their way around ship. But out in the open ocean, you need a guy like Torts to be at the wheel who can push through the storms and command the now seasoned crew with authority.
True. We just got him prematurely as Slats mistaken shallow waters for deep sea.


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07-28-2011, 11:43 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
Why would we place him on re-entry? If we sit him in Hartford, it's just Dolan burning more of his money, which is obviously no issue for him. If we put him on re-entry and he's claimed, then it's dead cap space for us. I don't understand the point.
You burn money when you screwed up and out of cap space. Rangers are no longer that short. Thus, money may be saved. Dolan ain't idiot, just misfit.

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07-28-2011, 11:46 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by skroob View Post
To expand on the nautical theme, Reeney was the harbor master, who took us gently away from the dock and navigated the shallows as the crew learned their way around ship. But out in the open ocean, you need a guy like Torts to be at the wheel who can push through the storms and command the now seasoned crew with authority.
Love the nautical approach. No one can deny that Renney suffered a mass "MUTINY"! Not a good thing for a Coach. He is now in Edmonton still meandering for a channel out to sea.

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