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Shea Weber: Let's put some numbers to this...

View Poll Results: Would you trade Weber for Parise (or similar top forward)
Yes 23 41.07%
No 33 58.93%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-28-2011, 07:56 AM
  #1
Firestorm
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Shea Weber: Let's put some numbers to this...

Me being an accountant, I like to quantify things. So the idea of trading Weber for a top forward (Zach Parise for the sake of argument) is a poll-able idea. If Weber gets a short term contract then that makes the Weber or Suter argument easier. But we're not talking about Suter right now.

So if you had the option right now to trade Weber (not Suter) for Parise, would you do it (why or why not?)

I would argue that having about $14M in two defencemen and another $6M in a goalie in the future isn't the best way to building a very competitive (compared with normally competitive team). We just need the goals.

Poll approval by golfmade.

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07-28-2011, 08:13 AM
  #2
glenngineer
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What I'd prefer to do is trade a few of our players/prospects and land Parise, keep Suter, Weber and Rinne and go from there. Trading a guy like Wilson who may or may not make it as a top 3 is a risk but you're getting a stud in return. Ellis, Wilson plus maybe one of Erat or Hornqvist probably would get the job done. Might have to throw a pick in there as well. While that's a lot to give up, you don't give up the core and you add a mighty valuable piece up front. Couple that with a possible return of Rads next season and you have some fire power up front.

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07-28-2011, 09:00 AM
  #3
David Singleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
What I'd prefer to do is trade a few of our players/prospects and land Parise, keep Suter, Weber and Rinne and go from there. Trading a guy like Wilson who may or may not make it as a top 3 is a risk but you're getting a stud in return. Ellis, Wilson plus maybe one of Erat or Hornqvist probably would get the job done. Might have to throw a pick in there as well. While that's a lot to give up, you don't give up the core and you add a mighty valuable piece up front. Couple that with a possible return of Rads next season and you have some fire power up front.
I agree Glenn.

Defensive hockey is the sweet spot for this coaching staff. Trading any one of Weber, Suter, or Rinne if you don't have to would be a mistake at this time.

I think a package centered around Wilson would definitely get you Semin. I'm not sure about Parise. It might be possible to do a package like you have there to get Parise, but I don't know.

The deals are there as evidenced by Columbus obtaining Jeff Carter (who would have fit Nashville's needs perfectly on the ice) and there's no need to move your core to make it happen.

So, I vote no to the poll.

EDIT:

With all I said above, if I have to move one of Weber or Suter- I'd move Suter. Weber has a more unique skill set among Nashville's blueline (including prospects). Several play a similar game and style to Suter, albeit at a lower level.

EDIT #2:

If Nashville is forced to trade any of them, it's because Poile bungled the situation in my opinion.


Last edited by David Singleton: 07-28-2011 at 09:56 AM.
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07-28-2011, 09:11 AM
  #4
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I voted yes based on the balance we'd have between the forwards and D. That said, you'd HAVE to have big confidence in most of our prospects. They would have to step in and be effective very quickly.

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07-28-2011, 09:24 AM
  #5
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As for the options in this thread I say no. Not Shea. His ability to completely shut down players (see Ovechkin) is unique on our team (as good as Suter is).

And while I voted no, the thing is the Weber situation really put us in a bad spot. Unless we are able to keep him as a RFA then keep him. Anyway of him becoming a UFA within 3-4 years he needs to be traded.

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07-28-2011, 09:53 AM
  #6
triggrman
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Since this franchise has been in its inception we've lacked 3 things before Shea Weber came along. The first is goal scoring, we've always struggled with goal scoring. The second is a big crease clearing physical defenseman (especially one that can skate). Third is a legitimate superstar face-of-the-franchise type player. Shea Weber has given us all of that in one package. He has a cannon on the blue-line and is one of the best goal scoring defensemen in the NHL, he’s a beast down low and can completely physical dominate, which is a package not many defensemen in the league have, especially in the Norris Trophy caliber, making him our first and only true “superstar face-of-the-franchise type player”.

I love Ryan Suter’s game. He’s one of the smartest defenseman in the game. He is not now and never will be any of the things I’ve listed above. We’ve had a defenseman like Suter in Kimmo, and have prospects that have Suter type potential in Blum and Josi, but we do not have another Shea Weber, in fact the league doesn’t but maybe two other players like Shea Weber.

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07-28-2011, 10:48 AM
  #7
weeze
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Voted No.

I would keep both Webber and Suter and trade Rinne. Rinne was all world last year and was the main reason we made the playoffs and win our first series, but we could have done just as well if we had a lesser Goalie but had more scoring. Is a trade off but I feel that scoring and defense are better with Goalie coming in third. If he could get us a top 3 scoreer and a pick or 2 top 6 scoreers that would bejust as good. We have had really good luck with our Goalies and I have no doubt we could continue to do so.

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07-28-2011, 11:02 AM
  #8
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I voted yes only because if push comes to shove I say get a star forward out of him. It isn't the ideal situation, though, and I'd honestly hate to see Weber leave. I just wouldn't scoff at the idea in every situation so I couldn't say no.

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07-28-2011, 11:25 AM
  #9
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Weber, not suter, not rinne, is the face of this franchise. To lose him would be absolutely horrific in every way possible. We lose media exposure, we prove that we aren't committed to winning.

The word catastrophic comes to mind, regardless of the return.

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07-28-2011, 12:46 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
What I'd prefer to do is trade a few of our players/prospects and land Parise, keep Suter, Weber and Rinne and go from there.
You and every other fan in the National Hockey League. Who wouldn't want to trade a handful of quality non-superstars for a superstar?

Anyways, I think Weber must stay. Star defensemen keep the team competitive.

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07-28-2011, 12:56 PM
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To those saying we should trade a package of picks and prospects for Parise: We wont take a package for Weber, they wont take a package for Parise. If Zach is leaving, Shea or Ryan are going back.

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07-28-2011, 01:07 PM
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David Singleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
You and every other fan in the National Hockey League. Who wouldn't want to trade a handful of quality non-superstars for a superstar?

Anyways, I think Weber must stay. Star defensemen keep the team competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
To those saying we should trade a package of picks and prospects for Parise: We wont take a package for Weber, they wont take a package for Parise. If Zach is leaving, Shea or Ryan are going back.
In a vacuum, I think that's true.

That said, Columbus traded a package of non-superstars/picks for a superstar. They could do that because Philly was looking for cap room (putting aside the Dry Island stuff).

Similarly, I think Nashville could obtain Semin from the Capitals with a package that started with Colin Wilson if they so desired. The Caps would be getting a pretty safe bet for the top six, while getting a lot of cap room (something they don't have a lot of). Nashville would have to add, and maybe a lot if Semin came with an extended contract, but I believe it could be done.

If Weber gets a short term contract, and then shows signs that he plans on leaving, I can certainly believe that Poile would accept a package of non-superstars in a couple of years if he couldn't do better.

Situations matter, and there are cap concerns in New Jersey with Parise's next contract as well as the potential concern over a potential one year contract with Parise. That said, I'm not confident (as I mentioned before) that a package centered around Wilson would get you Parise.

Eh, just my contrariness coming through.

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07-28-2011, 01:13 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
Situations matter, and there are cap concerns in New Jersey with Parise's next contract as well as the potential concern over a potential one year contract with Parise. That said, I'm not confident (as I mentioned before) that a package centered around Wilson would get you Parise.
Well, scrath that. Rolston traded to the NYI

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07-28-2011, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Well, scrath that. Rolston traded to the NYI
Yeah, looks like Lou is making room for Parise.

Another example, if different, of how the cap can produce "interesting" trades.

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07-28-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
In a vacuum, I think that's true.

That said, Columbus traded a package of non-superstars/picks for a superstar. They could do that because Philly was looking for cap room (putting aside the Dry Island stuff).
Jakub Voracek is a proven top-6 player who could easily become a superstar. Colin Wilson is presently neither of these - frankly, the only player who's comparable in terms of "both now and in the future" on the Preds roster is Blum, only Blum has yet to have the one year of not-quite-yet-top-line/pairing "stagnation" that turns everybody against him.

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07-28-2011, 03:18 PM
  #16
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Obviously id rather have Weber, but if it came down to it. Yes I would

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07-28-2011, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Jakub Voracek is a proven top-6 player who could easily become a superstar. Colin Wilson is presently neither of these - frankly, the only player who's comparable in terms of "both now and in the future" on the Preds roster is Blum, only Blum has yet to have the one year of not-quite-yet-top-line/pairing "stagnation" that turns everybody against him.
colin Wilson is entering his 2nd full NHL season. In his first, he had 34 points. This top six juggernaut in Voracek had 38. And the followed with a 50 point season and 46. Hardly a proven top six guy, even by Nashville's low standards.

If Wilson had 46 points at the end of his third year, I will be very very disappointed.

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07-28-2011, 03:51 PM
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Random question: Would you guys rather trade Weber for an eliete scorer or an average 1st liner and a solid 2nd pairing guy? (Think Parise vs. Semin and Schultz). personally I'd rather have the elite scorer, but I see both sides.

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07-28-2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Random question: Would you guys rather trade Weber for an eliete scorer or an average 1st liner and a solid 2nd pairing guy? (Think Parise vs. Semin and Schultz). personally I'd rather have the elite scorer, but I see both sides.
I think I'd rather have the elite scorer over an average first liner & solid 2nd pairing guy every day of the week & twice on sunday

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07-28-2011, 07:09 PM
  #20
PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
EDIT:


EDIT #2:

If Nashville is forced to trade any of them, it's because Poile bungled the situation in my opinion.
For someone who puts themselves out there as something of a journalist i think you lose credibility with your incessant poile bashing.

Are you telling me that if suter decides he doesnt want to play in weber shadow and wont sign another deal with us regardless of money and poile trades him that its poiles fault?

Or if we are offered Parise and the only thing that will get him suter its poiles fault that the devils wont accept our scraps instead??

Or if rinne has an injury, misses a few games and lindback is amazing and someone makes us an offer we cant refuse for rinne thats bad on poile??

I think your bias comes through in your generalizations.

Now of course you are entitled to your opinion as is anyone else but the difference is we dont have a blog and team press access so fair or not i keep holding you to a higher standard

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07-28-2011, 07:38 PM
  #21
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That is a bit harsh. Perhaps he should just write Poile fluff pieces. No criticism. Nothing to see here. Everything is happy.

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07-28-2011, 08:02 PM
  #22
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That is a bit harsh. Perhaps he should just write Poile fluff pieces. No criticism. Nothing to see here. Everything is happy.
Agree.

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07-28-2011, 08:03 PM
  #23
David Singleton
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
For someone who puts themselves out there as something of a journalist i think you lose credibility with your incessant poile bashing.

Are you telling me that if suter decides he doesnt want to play in weber shadow and wont sign another deal with us regardless of money and poile trades him that its poiles fault?

Or if we are offered Parise and the only thing that will get him suter its poiles fault that the devils wont accept our scraps instead??

Or if rinne has an injury, misses a few games and lindback is amazing and someone makes us an offer we cant refuse for rinne thats bad on poile??

I think your bias comes through in your generalizations.

Now of course you are entitled to your opinion as is anyone else but the difference is we dont have a blog and team press access so fair or not i keep holding you to a higher standard
I actually had credibility to start with?

Ok, joking aside. I appreciate the criticism. It makes me better (assuming there is any hope for me).

It's awful hard to clarify every situation in a thread post. In general, by "forced" I mean one of your core leaves due to a feeling that the team will not compete. I'm also more focused on reasonable speculation based upon the little we've heard or what's actually happened. For example, there's been nothing ever mentioned that would indicate Suter doesn't "want to play in Weber's shadow". Rinne isn't injured either. Those scenarios seem "less" reasonable right now. Of course, the situation(s) could change.

While I don't really like a trade of Suter to acquire Parise, I certainly understand it. It's not as large a risk in my opinion, and deals from a position of strength to help a position of need. It's certainly not being "forced" on Poile (unless there's something no one's heard yet).

Do I incessantly criticize Poile? Maybe. I tend to look at it more as balancing the "incessant" support he typically receives from my fellow bloggers and the national media (note that I'm quoting incessant in the last sentence here as sarcasm).

For all the good David Poile has done (and there's been a lot- which I've acknowledged), this team has the same issues year after year and he's never proven that he can build a truly contending team.

If the ownership group and management are going to throw out statements like "Nashville is no longer a small market" or that they're going to build "a Cup contending team", they should expect someone holding them accountable. In my opinion, I don't see enough of that.

I do greatly appreciate the feedback Voldy.

Thank you.

EDIT: Voldy, I don't want to derail this thread. If you want to discuss this topic further, I'd be happy to do it via PMs, email, or even a general thread on the responsibilities of bloggers/columnists.

Thanks again!


Last edited by David Singleton: 07-28-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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07-28-2011, 08:09 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
If the ownership group and management are going throw out statements like "Nashville is no longer a small market" or that they're going to build "a Cup contending team", they should expect someone holding them accountable. In my opinion, I don't see enough of that.
This. Thank you.

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07-28-2011, 08:14 PM
  #25
I Will Son
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