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Ranger vs. Islander young forwards

View Poll Results: Who has better young forwards?
Rangers by a lot 13 9.49%
Rangers by a little 19 13.87%
About the same 11 8.03%
Islanders by a little 58 42.34%
Islanders by a lot 36 26.28%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-28-2011, 05:43 PM
  #1
Beacon
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Ranger vs. Islander young forwards

Islander fans seem to think that their young forwards are massively better than ours. Am I way off to think they are wrong? I think we are deeper, but we lack that star like Tavares. They disagree. One of them suggested that Anisimov would be about the 9th best forward on the present-day Islanders team, not including prospects like Nino, and that Zuccarello would not even be a top-15 prospect on their team.

This is our depth for U-26 forwards:

1. Dubinsky
2. Callahan
3. Stepan
4. Anisimov
5. Zuccarello
6. Boyle
7. Kreider
8. Thomas
9. Miller
10. Fasth
11. Lindberg
12. Fogarty
13. Yogan
14. Bourque
15. Weise
16. St. Croix
17. McColgan
18. Wolski

And this is their forward depth:

1. Tavares
2. Moulson
3. Grabner
4. Okposo
5. Nielsen
6. Comeau
7. Bailey
8. Niederreiter
9. Strome
10. Kabanov
11. Petrov
12. Ullstrom
13. Nelson
14. Martin
15. Lee
16. Cizikas
17. Rakhshani

Islanders stats last year: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000522011.html

HockeysFuture Islanders page: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/new_york_islanders

To be honest, I just want to know what Ranger fans think, so I will ask Islander fans to please stay out of this. I already know you guys think your forwards are head and shoulders superior to our "scrubs".


EDIT: I forgot to include Wolski who is only 25. Not exactly an old man.


Last edited by Beacon: 07-28-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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07-28-2011, 05:55 PM
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I gotta take the Islanders in this one. Strome will be a beast, Nino should be pretty good, and Tavares will be a star. All 3 of them have more offensive POTENTIAL then any of our young forwards, with the exception of maybe Kreider.

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07-28-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TreeSapLlama View Post
I gotta take the Islanders in this one. Strome will be a beast, Nino should be pretty good, and Tavares will be a star. All 3 of them have more offensive POTENTIAL then any of our young forwards, with the exception of maybe Kreider.

Yeah, but is it a massive, big difference? You voted that it's a minor difference, which is what I think too.

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07-28-2011, 06:01 PM
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I've got to go with the islanders on this one. I think we have more depth but are lacking that top end talent. Thing is, we have it now in gaborik and Richards. In two years tops we will be adding kreider and thomas to the lineup. We have the ability to make a package to get a top line player but the islanders have more top end talent. What sets us apart is the goaltending and defense which we are much better in

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07-28-2011, 06:18 PM
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Kevin27nyi
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
To be honest, I just want to know what Ranger fans think, so I will ask Islander fans to please stay out of this. I already know you guys think your forwards are head and shoulders superior to our "scrubs".
I'll respect your wish but will point out that Donovan is a defenseman.

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07-28-2011, 06:30 PM
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Islanders forwards are better.

Our defense and goaltending is much better.

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07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Yeah, but is it a massive, big difference? You voted that it's a minor difference, which is what I think too.
I think we'll be the Bruins, bunch of 60+ point 2-way players, while they'll have 80+
point forwards who are average or worse at defense.

I voted a minor difference because I think they'll be much better offensively. However, we have Brad Richards and Gaborik while all they have are their prospects. I think we are and will be the better team.

edit- Also Anisimov would very likely be the 2nd line forward on that team tomorrow. Hell, they should put him on the first line and move Tavares to wing so they don't have to look at PA Parenteau.

Also I take Dubi and Cally over Okposo any day.

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07-28-2011, 06:41 PM
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Islanders ny a long shot. But they SHOULD have better prospects. It doesn't say anything derogatory towered our staff. I like our prospects but islanders definitely have more top end and depth IMO

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07-28-2011, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I think we'll be the Bruins, bunch of 60+ point 2-way players, while they'll have 80+
point forwards who are average or worse at defense.

I voted a minor difference because I think they'll be much better offensively. However, we have Brad Richards and Gaborik while all they have are their prospects. I think we are and will be the better team.

The good news is that next year we'll likely draft a forward and they will likely draft a defenseman.

Add another guy like another set of Miller and Fogarty, while the Isles are trying to rebuild their defense corps (still will be inferior to what we got), and all of a sudden, I think we have the better group of forwards.

If the Islanders had drafted Larsson, as they wanted to until the Debbies won the lottery to swoop him, I think the Rangers would have the stronger set of forwards. As it is, I think the Isles are slightly stronger.

Also, if either Wolski or Zuccarello prove to be second liners, and either McColgan or St. Croix have a great offensive season in juniors, it will be big for us.

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07-28-2011, 06:52 PM
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You put Zuccarello at 5 ... above Boyle, Kreider etc... Seriously dude?

Back to the point: Tavares will probably be the best player. Strome and Nino will be very good. I'd take the Isles....

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07-28-2011, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The good news is that next year we'll likely draft a forward and they will likely draft a defenseman.

Add another guy like another set of Miller and Fogarty, while the Isles are trying to rebuild their defense corps (still will be inferior to what we got), and all of a sudden, I think we have the better group of forwards.

If the Islanders had drafted Larsson, as they wanted to until the Debbies won the lottery to swoop him, I think the Rangers would have the stronger set of forwards. As it is, I think the Isles are slightly stronger.

Also, if either Wolski or Zuccarello prove to be second liners, and either McColgan or St. Croix have a great offensive season in juniors, it will be big for us.
We can 'if' ourselves to death. they have the forwards. We have the d-men, and goalie...

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07-28-2011, 06:55 PM
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NYI by a little, IMO.

The Rangers have good depth, but they don't have the elite skill that the Islanders have.

Of course, the Rangers' group is more proven, so anything could happen.

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07-28-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The good news is that next year we'll likely draft a forward and they will likely draft a defenseman.

Add another guy like another set of Miller and Fogarty, while the Isles are trying to rebuild their defense corps (still will be inferior to what we got), and all of a sudden, I think we have the better group of forwards.

If the Islanders had drafted Larsson, as they wanted to until the Debbies won the lottery to swoop him, I think the Rangers would have the stronger set of forwards. As it is, I think the Isles are slightly stronger.

Also, if either Wolski or Zuccarello prove to be second liners, and either McColgan or St. Croix have a great offensive season in juniors, it will be big for us.
Depends who pans out. If Strome and Nino pan out, and Grabner proves not to be a flash in the pan, they definitely have the more potent offense. Tavares is underrated because he's on the Islanders but he easily has 40 goal, 80+ point potential. Strome is the dynamic player they've been missing for a while, and Nino's a truck. Moulson's a good complementary player but i'm not that worried about him, I like Dubi/Cally more than a Moulson/Okposo pairing. It'll be the JT-Strome-Nino-Grabner(?) group that makes them better than us offensively. To be perfectly honest, if they didn't have JT I wouldn't even be that frightened of their group, JT is the real deal.

However, our defense is very young and way better than theirs. Hank is getting older but he is and will be a top 3 goalie in the league for years to come, while the Islanders don't have anything near that. We also have somebody who knows what a bottom 6 is and has the means to go out and a get a guy like Fedotenko. If the reports on Yashin actually come to fruition, you realize yet again their management is a joke.

I think they'll have the better offense, we'll be the better team.

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07-28-2011, 06:59 PM
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Tavares

Callahan
Dubinsky

Stepan
Moulson
Grabner
Anisimov

Okposo
Nielsen
Comeau
Boyle
Bailey
MZA

Not including prospects in the ranks

This is a mix of both now and potential in terms of the rankings.

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07-28-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
You put Zuccarello at 5 ... above Boyle, Kreider etc... Seriously dude?

I listed players in the order they came into my head, not based on how good they are. This is how I ranked our prospects a few days ago:

TOP PROSPECTS

1. D Tim Erixon
2. RW Christian Thomas
3. D Ryan McDonagh
4. LW Chris Kreider
5. RW Jesper Fasth
6. D Dylan McIlrath
7. LW Carl Hagelin
8. LW Mats Zuccarello
9. LW J.T. Miller
10. C Oscar Lindberg


SECOND-TIER PROSPECTS

11. D Tomas Kundratek
12. C Michael St. Croix
13. RW Shane McColgan
14. C Steven Fogarty
15. RW Dale Weise
16. D Pavel Valentenko
17. C Andrew Yogan
18. D Samuel Noreau
19. D Jyri Niemi
20. LW Ryan Bourque


SUSPECTS & PROJECTS

21. RW Andreas Thuresson
22. D Blake Parlett
23. D Peter Ceresnak
24. D Mikhail Pashnin
25. G Jason Missiaen
26. G Cameron Talbot
27. LW Jason Wilson
28. RW Danny Hobbs
29. G Scott Stajcer
30. LW Tommy Grant

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07-28-2011, 07:05 PM
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I voted the Islanders by a lot. But if we had a vote on goaltenders and defense, we win that by a lot, and I would also say by a larger margin than their offense beats ours..

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07-28-2011, 07:05 PM
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This is very, very close

Tavares is better than Stepan
Dubinsky is way better than Okposo
Callahan is better than Moulson
AA is better than Bailey
Grabner is better than Zuc
Nielsen about the same as Boyle
Kreider more potential than Neiderreiter
Strome similar player Thomas
Miller more potential than Comeau

The rest of the depth is tough to predict but it seems the Rangers have more talent and depth.

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07-28-2011, 07:06 PM
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About the same.

At first I went with the emotional decision of the Rangers by a little then thought maybe the Islander have them by a little and kept going back and fourth thinking it was a breadth vs depth issue. Then I'd figure I'd line up the two and start pairing off the forwards with, as best as possible, a comparable counterpart and awarding a plus or minus. At the end I totaled them all up an got an even sum of zero.

2. Callahan 1. Tavares -1
1. Dubinsky 2. Moulson 1
3. Stepan 3. Grabner 0
4. Anisimov 4. Okposo 0
7. Kreider 8. Niederreiter 0
6. Boyle 6. Comeau 1
5. Zuccarello 7. Bailey 0
9. Miller 9. Strome -1
17. Hagelin 5. Nielsen -1
8. Thomas 10. Kabanov 1
10. Fasth 11. Petrov 0
11. Lindberg 15. Lee 1
12. Fogarty 13. Nelson -1
14. Bourque 17. Rakhshani 0
16. St. Croix 12. Ullstrom 0
15. Weise 14. Martin 0
13. Yogan 16. Cizikas 0
0

I pulled out McColgan and put in Hagelin.

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07-28-2011, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
This is very, very close

Tavares is better than Stepan
Dubinsky is way better than Okposo
Callahan is better than Moulson
AA is better than Bailey
Grabner is better than Zuc
Nielsen about the same as Boyle
Kreider more potential than Neiderreiter
Strome similar player Thomas
Miller more potential than Comeau

The rest of the depth is tough to predict but it seems the Rangers have more talent and depth.
I don't like how people try comparing rosters like this. You can just re-organize it in any way you want to favor one team.

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07-28-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Depends who pans out. If Strome and Nino pan out, and Grabner proves not to be a flash in the pan, they definitely have the more potent offense. Tavares is underrated because he's on the Islanders but he easily has 40 goal, 80+ point potential. Strome is the dynamic player they've been missing for a while, and Nino's a truck. Moulson's a good complementary player but i'm not that worried about him, I like Dubi/Cally more than a Moulson/Okposo pairing. It'll be the JT-Strome-Nino-Grabner(?) group that makes them better than us offensively. To be perfectly honest, if they didn't have JT I wouldn't even be that frightened of their group, JT is the real deal.

However, our defense is very young and way better than theirs. Hank is getting older but he is and will be a top 3 goalie in the league for years to come, while the Islanders don't have anything near that. We also have somebody who knows what a bottom 6 is and has the means to go out and a get a guy like Fedotenko. If the reports on Yashin actually come to fruition, you realize yet again their management is a joke.

I think they'll have the better offense, we'll be the better team.

That's exactly the analysis I left on their board. We have significantly better defense and they have a similar group of forwards except that Tavares is much better than Stepan at center. You take out those two and the Rangers are at least as good at forward.

Isle fans believe they are much better at forward and either even or close on defense. Of course, their analysis depends on DeHaan being a top-4 stud (that's a guarantee, know!), while MDZ will be a crappy career-minus player, Erixon is garbage because he was traded for two seconds, and McIlrath will be no better than Belak. Basically, all their prospects will reach the outmost ceiling, while all the Ranger prospects will result in the "worst case scenario."

But I objectively speaking, I think we have a plethora of current and potential top-4 defensemen, and a solid number of current and potential top-6 forwards (Dubi, Cally, Stepan, Anisimov, Thomas, Fasth, MZA, Miller, Wolski; possibly Hagelin and Lindberg as tweeners, and also high-risk guys like McColgan and St. Croix). We just lack superstars, but we do have Gabby and Brad here for a while.

Even without B&G, we do have 4 guys who will certainly be top-6 (Dubi, Cally, AA and Step) and I hope 2 out of the 9 remaining players can fill in the other two spots. That's assuming we don't sign anyone with the money freed up when Gabby leaves, and if both Zuccarello and Wolski fail, that's $5.5 million freed up in addition to the money freed up when Avery leaves. That's over $7 plus almost $4 on Drury, which is $11, and with the departure of Gaborik, that's about $18.

Even if all our prospects bust, we should be able to add not one, but two stars to replace Gaborik in 3 years, even with Brad still on the team.

But I suspect we will have so much youth that we will not need to sign two overpaid UFAs.

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07-28-2011, 07:13 PM
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I say Islanders by a little. But on paper it's Islanders by a lot. They need to prove they can win. In the order the 'rankings' were presented, the Islanders dominate the top 10.

It would take a while to do it but would be a nice way to get through August if both boards (Rangers & Islanders separately) vote by poll their to 10 young forwards then we vote head to head.

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07-28-2011, 07:15 PM
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I say Islanders by a little. But on paper it's Islanders by a lot. They need to prove they can win. In the order the 'rankings' were presented, the Islanders dominate the top 10.
Dominate? Hardly.

Tavares is the best forward on either team, but Callahan and Dubi are better than anyone else on their squad right now, Stepan and Thomas have a lot of potential, and Kreider can be just as good as Nino.

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07-28-2011, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
I listed players in the order they came into my head, not based on how good they are. This is how I ranked our prospects a few days ago:

TOP PROSPECTS

1. D Tim Erixon
2. RW Christian Thomas
3. D Ryan McDonagh
4. LW Chris Kreider
5. RW Jesper Fasth
6. D Dylan McIlrath
7. LW Carl Hagelin
8. LW Mats Zuccarello
9. LW J.T. Miller
10. C Oscar Lindberg


SECOND-TIER PROSPECTS

11. D Tomas Kundratek
12. C Michael St. Croix
13. RW Shane McColgan
14. C Steven Fogarty
15. RW Dale Weise
16. D Pavel Valentenko
17. C Andrew Yogan
18. D Samuel Noreau
19. D Jyri Niemi
20. LW Ryan Bourque


SUSPECTS & PROJECTS

21. RW Andreas Thuresson
22. D Blake Parlett
23. D Peter Ceresnak
24. D Mikhail Pashnin
25. G Jason Missiaen
26. G Cameron Talbot
27. LW Jason Wilson
28. RW Danny Hobbs
29. G Scott Stajcer
30. LW Tommy Grant
I could argue a few people, but I could def be wrong so I won't get into it.. I do see him more 11-ish under Lindberg. If I'm a GM, then give me Miller easily over him.

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07-28-2011, 07:17 PM
  #24
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Quote:
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I say Islanders by a little. But on paper it's Islanders by a lot. They need to prove they can win. In the order the 'rankings' were presented, the Islanders dominate the top 10.
Thats why i said potential....but that means nothing until you prove yourself....the ragers have a few more proven players that cam play while the isles have alot of young players with potential

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07-28-2011, 07:21 PM
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The Isles have the best player. They can lay out a first and second line center with 3 top 6 wingers... oh yea, and Bailey. I'd take the Isles... but do not underrate the Rangers either - Dubi, Cally, Stepan, Kreider, AA, Thomas... good crew right there!

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