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Ranger vs. Islander young forwards

View Poll Results: Who has better young forwards?
Rangers by a lot 13 9.49%
Rangers by a little 19 13.87%
About the same 11 8.03%
Islanders by a little 58 42.34%
Islanders by a lot 36 26.28%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-28-2011, 07:22 PM
  #26
msv957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Isle fans believe they are much better at forward and either even or close on defense. Of course, their analysis depends on DeHaan being a top-4 stud (that's a guarantee, know!), while MDZ will be a crappy career-minus player, Erixon is garbage because he was traded for two seconds, and McIlrath will be no better than Belak. Basically, all their prospects will reach the outmost ceiling, while all the Ranger prospects will result in the "worst case scenario."
I agree...

Not sure how the Isles are even remotely close on defense here:

Staal, McD, Sauer, Erixon, MDZ, Mcilrath, Valentenko

Hamonic, McDonald, De Haan, Wisart, Donovan, Mayfield, Ness

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07-28-2011, 07:24 PM
  #27
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(Prospects are italicized.)

Tavares is better than Stepan
Nino is better than Kreider
Strome is better than Thomas

Grabner is better than AA
Comeau is better than MZA

Dubinsky is better than Okposo
Callahan is better than Moulson
Boyle is better than Bailey
Miller is better than Petrov
Hagelin is better than Anders Lee
Fasth is better than Casey Cizikas
Lindberg is better than Kabanov



Among the lesser players, however, definite advantage to the Rangers in part because we have more quality prospects. For ex., Rhett Rakhshani is about the same as either McColgan or St. Croix, but we have two of them, so double the odds.

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07-28-2011, 07:26 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
I agree...

Not sure how the Isles are even remotely close on defense here:

Staal, McD, Sauer, Erixon, MDZ, Mcilrath, Valentenko

Hamonic, McDonald, De Haan, Wisart, Donovan, Mayfield, Ness

Those to are potential game changers for you guys..

I would say Staal is the best followed by AMAC and Hammer then Sauer...the rest we need to wait and see how they pan out....MDZ is ahead of the prospects though...

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Old
07-28-2011, 07:26 PM
  #29
Kel Varnsen
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It's important to consider that our guys have the benefit of being developed by this franchise while the isles prospects have the misfortune of having to come up though that mickey mouse franchise.

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07-28-2011, 07:33 PM
  #30
Beacon
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Top 20 players combined (prospects are NOT assumed to reach their potential and get a pump down for being unproven, as would be the case on the trade market... I get that Nino, Strome, Thomas may have higher potential than, say, Anisimov, but Anisimov is a two-way second liner today and those guys may still turn into busts):

1. Tavares
2. Callahan
3. Dubinsky
4. Stepan

5. Moulson
6. Grabner
7. Anisimov
8. Nino
9. Okposo
10. Strome
11. Thomas
12. Kreider

13. Comeau
14. Zuccarello
15. Fasth
16. Miller

17. Nielsen
18. Boyle
19. Bailey
20. Lindberg

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Old
07-28-2011, 07:34 PM
  #31
msv957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
It's important to consider that our guys have the benefit of being developed by this franchise while the isles prospects have the misfortune of having to come up though that mickey mouse franchise.
Good point... The Isles rushed Bailey and it looks like he will be no more than 3rd line player. Bailey was in the same draft as Stepan and look at the difference in players. Stepan was developed the right way.

Okposo was rushed also but not as much

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07-28-2011, 07:42 PM
  #32
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On defense, Staal is easily the best player.

Hamonic, A-Mac, Erixon, Sauer and McDonagh are about even, though Erixon has the highest potential (but is the least proven).

DeHaan, MDZ and McILrath are similar QUALITY (not style) players, but again, the Rangers have two prospects and the Isles have one, so that doubles our chance of getting a quality guy.

We also have a relatively young vet in Girardi.

As for the lower end prospects like Valentenko, Kundratek, Niemi and Pashnin on the Rangers and Wisart, Donovan, Mayfield and Ness on the Islanders, again it's similar, but the Rangers can afford to have all of them go bust considering that they have 7 superior players and prospects (Staal, Girardi, Sauer, McDonagh, Erixon, Del Zotto and McIlrath), while the Isles really have only Ham, A-Mac and DeHaan as someone who has a high chance of being a top-4 defenseman.

Even A-Mac is no certainty, not like Staal and Girardi are for the Rangers. I am not certain that he's really THAT much better than Eminger, I think he just had a chance to play more minutes because he's on a weaker team.

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07-28-2011, 07:43 PM
  #33
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Good point... The Isles rushed Bailey and it looks like he will be no more than 3rd line player. Bailey was in the same draft as Stepan and look at the difference in players. Stepan was developed the right way.

Okposo was rushed also but not as much
Exactly. Also our coaching staff/front office is a lot more stable as well and with seemingly everyone on the same page. It's been apparent and reported that the isles are a mess on that end. A lot of that stems from us having plenty of money and the isles bleeding cash. We spare no expense, the isles have to cut corners just to lose less money.

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07-28-2011, 07:45 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
On defense, Staal is easily the best player.

Hamonic, A-Mac, Erixon, Sauer and McDonagh are about even, though Erixon has the highest potential (but is the least proven).

DeHaan, MDZ and McILrath are similar QUALITY (not style) players, but again, the Rangers have two prospects and the Isles have one, so that doubles our chance of getting a quality guy.

We also have a relatively young vet in Girardi.

As for the lower end prospects like Valentenko, Kundratek, Niemi and Pashnin on the Rangers and Wisart, Donovan, Mayfield and Ness on the Islanders, again it's similar, but the Rangers can afford to have all of them go bust considering that they have 7 superior players and prospects (Staal, Girardi, Sauer, McDonagh, Erixon, Del Zotto and McIlrath), while the Isles really have only Ham, A-Mac and DeHaan as someone who has a high chance of being a top-4 defenseman.

Even A-Mac is no certainty, not like Staal and Girardi are for the Rangers. I am not certain that he's really THAT much better than Eminger, I think he just had a chance to play more minutes because he's on a weaker team.
Exactly. Hamonic and A-Mac are not locks to even be slightly worse than Staal, but if you ask Isles fans Hamonic's already that good.

I'm going to point to that when people complain that we overrate our prospects. Everyone does it.

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07-28-2011, 07:53 PM
  #35
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i votes Isles by a little. Tavares is basically the only reason for me.
Grabner had a great first year and Moulson basically came out of nowhere. Okposo is a good player as well.

These guys put up decent offensive #'s but it's hard to take them seriously. They've been playing "throw caution to wind hockey" for the past 4 seasons, once they have no chance of making post season.

They're not trying to win games because it doesn't matter. Very strange philosophy they've got going over there.

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07-28-2011, 08:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
These guys put up decent offensive #'s but it's hard to take them seriously. They've been playing "throw caution to wind hockey" for the past 4 seasons, once they have no chance of making post season.

They're not trying to win games because it doesn't matter. Very strange philosophy they've got going over there.

Yeah, it's funny reading Isle fans praise the offensive prowess of players who got (significantly) outscored by PAP. I suspect that on a different team, all their players except JT would be scoring 15-20% less just because they would 1) play fewer minutes if they had better teammates; and 2) would be forced to play defense.

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07-28-2011, 08:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
I agree...

Not sure how the Isles are even remotely close on defense here:

Staal, McD, Sauer, Erixon, MDZ, Mcilrath, Valentenko

Hamonic, McDonald, De Haan, Wisart, Donovan, Mayfield, Ness
Hamonic and McDonald are quite good and De Haan has nice potential, but I can't say it's anything over what the Rangers have. Isles have a nice D group but it doesn't wow me in any way

Their forwards are pretty nice though. Tavares is really showing he's a true talent, I like what Grabner did last year (though I think some fans overrate him a bit...someone on another board was basically saying "he's so fast he's completely unstoppable defenses will never be able to stop him!"), they've got some good depth and Strome looks like a real nice prospect.

I think Okposo is kind of overrated at this point. Good player, nice to have, but I think people expect more out of him than he can give. Also think Nino is overrated in that he's not going to become a high scoring star, just another good player.

They should have good depth and some nice top end skilled players. Reallllly need to find a goalie though. I know they think Poulin will be great but you just can't say for sure until it happens

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07-28-2011, 08:28 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Yeah, it's funny reading Isle fans praise the offensive prowess of players who got (significantly) outscored by PAP. I suspect that on a different team, all their players except JT would be scoring 15-20% less just because they would 1) play fewer minutes if they had better teammates; and 2) would be forced to play defense.
all true.

Ranger fans have a right to be aggravated with the past sins of management, but take a look at some of the talent that that this organization allowed to pass through their hands:

Bertuzzi, Mccabe, Brewer, Chara, Jokinen, Connolly, Luongo, Drafted REdden

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07-28-2011, 08:30 PM
  #39
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I voted Rangers by a little but that might have a slight homer skew to it...

Uh, where is the mighty PAP?

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07-28-2011, 08:30 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
all true.

Ranger fans have a right to be aggravated with the past sins of management, but take a look at some of the talent that that this organization allowed to pass through their hands:

Bertuzzi, Mccabe, Brewer, Chara, Jokinen, Connolly, Luongo, Drafted REdden

have any of these move payed off? Crazy.
Don't forgetdrafting DiPietro over Heatley/Gabby and trading the Spezza pick for Yashin.

On topic Islanders by a good bit IMO.

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07-28-2011, 08:39 PM
  #41
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I voted Isles- they've had a handful of top 5 picks recently, and I think they've stocked up on some great talent.

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07-28-2011, 08:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
I voted Isles- they've had a handful of top 5 picks recently, and I think they've stocked up on some great talent.

Yeah, getting #1, #5 and #5 makes it easier to draft a star than getting #19, #10 and #15 in the last three years.

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07-28-2011, 09:01 PM
  #43
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Isles have more top heavy talent but the Rangers have better depth is how I see it.

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07-29-2011, 02:34 AM
  #44
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I will say that the islanders are better by a bit. Thats going by how it is now. I assume that Strome will be a top center and nino will be a 30 goal scorer consistently and Tavares keeps it up. Then again Thomas and Kreider could really light up the lamp along with Stepan. Could be such a good line.

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07-29-2011, 05:14 AM
  #45
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As much as it pains me to say it but Isles have an impressive group of young players/prospects (forwards). Okposo, Grabner and Moulson have already put up 50-points seasons. Comeau probably gets there next season. In couple years Tavares should be a 35+ goals/80+ points producer. Than you add guys like Nino and Strome who both have top-6 potential. Strome has talents to be right up there with Tavares. Nielsen is decent and Bailey is a wildcard. Then there's Petrov and that head case Kabanov. That's quite an impressive group of young players/prospects.

We are much better on D and then we have Hank.


Love Tavares. Would love him on Rangers.

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07-29-2011, 07:51 AM
  #46
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I think that the Islanders have three forwards that the Rangers can't touch in terms of potential.

Tavares, Nino and Strome.

One is already, but I think that all three will be better than any forward the Rangers have in the system or on the team right now.

I also believe that Okposo is as good as Dubi/Cally

Not a believer in Grabner, just don't think he can duplicate last year.

I like Bailey, although he's coming along slower than expected, he's still someone to pay attention to.

Comeau seems to have gotten his act together. Another solid player.

None of this even mentions Moulson (back to back 30 goal seasons)

After the Islanders top 3 forwards they are still neck and neck with us, and I still give them the slight edge.

To me, they hands down have a better group of forwards.

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07-29-2011, 07:55 AM
  #47
Darrelle Lundqvist
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I'd take the Isles. Not by a lot though, much of their young talent isn't proven yet.

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07-29-2011, 08:12 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Isles have more top heavy talent but the Rangers have better depth is how I see it.
Agreed. Islanders have some seriously dynamic talent coming through their system, while we're focused on depth and character.

Even if our higher end offensive players reach their potential, we still don't have a guy who can go toe to toe with Tavares -- especially if he ends up with a guy like Strome feeding him pucks.

I think Nino and Kreider are somewhat comparable, de Haan and MDZ as well. Hamonic and McDonagh are similar blue liners, but I think Hamonic may have a slight edge in offensive potential.

I hate the Islanders, but that doesn't mean I want to see them in the gutter any more. Perhaps this year, or in one or two more years, we'll see two very good, very deep teams that hate each other battling it out 6 times a year. Should be fun.

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07-29-2011, 08:15 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Yeah, getting #1, #5 and #5 makes it easier to draft a star than getting #19, #10 and #15 in the last three years.
See, this is where your poll loses credibility with me.

You can't post a poll, ask who has the better group of forward prospects and then provide an excuse as to why.

Take draft position out of the scenario and judge the groups on who they are, not where they were drafted.

Otherwise quantify the post/poll based on draft position like:

Who has the better player drafted in the top 5, 6 thu 10, 10 thru 20, 21 thru 30, 2nd round, 3rd round and so forth.


Last edited by pld459666: 07-29-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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07-29-2011, 09:00 AM
  #50
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Quote:
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Tavares


Callahan
Dubinsky
Stepan
Okposo

Anisimov
Moulson

Grabner

Nielsen
Comeau
Bailey
MZA
Boyle

Not including prospects in the ranks

This is a mix of both now and potential in terms of the rankings.
I edited yours based on what I think. Similar, but Okposo should get more love, and Grabner gets to much love. Isles have better top end talent up front, we have better depth.

now when it comes to D we have better top end talent, and better depth.

They have much better Goalie prospects in my opinion


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