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Corey Pronman's top 10 Habs prospects

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Old
07-28-2011, 01:04 PM
  #26
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An above below average article...

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07-28-2011, 01:07 PM
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If this list was made last summer, it would look something like this:

Subban - Pacioretty - Eller - Yemelin - Weber - Tinordi - Leblanc - Avtsin - Palushaj - Kristo

That is a pretty solid prospect pool. And one year later we technically have upgraded 5 of these players to the NHL. By 2013 we will have a very solid group of prospects again that will make the jump to the NHL (Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc, Avtsin, Palushaj).

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07-28-2011, 01:23 PM
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I'm a bit surprised about mitera, but pleasantly surprised. Hope he pans out.

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07-28-2011, 04:19 PM
  #29
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Even though he has a nice rep and I'm just a scrub, but man, I disagree with everything he writes lol.

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07-28-2011, 04:42 PM
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He said Bournival was a below-average skater, I thought that the guy was good skater. Can someone that see him played alot tell the truth ?

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07-28-2011, 10:03 PM
  #31
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The article expresses an opinion like any other.
The thing with prospects is that you never really know so any list and organisational ranking is really just a fun (or not so fun) read.

And everyone on these boards who has read reports from people attending prospect camps, world junior summer camps, etc. that how a player looked on in drills or in a scrimmage can vary tremendously from one person to the next.

I remember at the 2009 draft, a lot of people were pumping the tires on Jordan Schroeder. Some said that the Habs should have drafted Jordan instead of Louis. Not sure I'd make that swap now. But who knows what will happen next year.

Jarred Tinordi struggled at the beginning of the season (which, IMO, was to be expected for such a big d-man coming from a stacked USNDP team in terms of d-men) but from the reports I read, played much better near the end of the season.
He could be a bottom pairing d-man, he could be another Mark Tinordi, he could be a poor man's Zdeno Chara. How can anyone predict how good he'll be after one season in the OHL?

Dany Kristo struggled for the first half of the season but averaged a point a game over the last 20 games or so. Reports from the prospect camp say that his body is much more developed than it was in the past. Let's see what he does this year.

All this to say is that as much as people overrate prospects on this board, a lot of people crap all over them too. Reality is, a max of 2-3 players drafted in year stick in the NHL and maybe, maybe 1-2 players every two to three drafts (unless you're drafting in the top 2-3) become "important" players on your team.

Since 2005, the Habs have drafted Price, Patches, McDonaugh, Subban, Weber, Kristo (who I think will play at least as a third liner because of his speed), Leblanc (who I also think will play at least as a third liner because of his speed and tenacity).
It's too early to tell for the 2010 and 2011 drafts (even though I like Beaulieu).
That's pretty good IMO.

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07-29-2011, 02:36 AM
  #32
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Got that feeling Brendan Gallagher is gonna become our Jeff Skinner *cross fingers*

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07-29-2011, 06:52 AM
  #33
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Every team has prospects. Am I thrilled by the current Habs prospects in comparison to those of other teams? Not really. Maybe training camp will cause me to change my mind.

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07-29-2011, 09:05 AM
  #34
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I find the whole article average to below average and lacks in dept making many safe to really safe suppositions.

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07-29-2011, 10:06 AM
  #35
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Probably one of the most realistic articles I've read in terms of projections.

The only issue I have is that I think Leblanc will end up a second liner instead of a third liner because I think he has enough skill to play top 6. Also, I really hope Tinordi ends up being that #4 minute eating defenseman, but bottom pairing is probably the most likely outcome.

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07-29-2011, 11:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Every team has prospects. Am I thrilled by the current Habs prospects in comparison to those of other teams? Not really. Maybe training camp will cause me to change my mind.
25 of them?

We got a deep pool of prospect and I'm always hoping one will bust into the seen.
It was a interesting article full of opinion but what else is new? A little harsh at time but wen your expectation are up, shiit happens.

The one with the most upsides has got to be Avstin. Can he translate his game has soon has this year?
My sleeper in that list is Nattinen. There's just something about him that tells me he's gonna be a fine player.+

Anyhow, I think we could make an interesting package an get a solid top 4 Dman. We have enough depth and there are team out here that needs youth in there system.

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07-29-2011, 12:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
He said Bournival was a below-average skater, I thought that the guy was good skater. Can someone that see him played alot tell the truth ?
Bournival is a good skater and he covers a lot of ice. I'm surprised about the comment. From what I've read from him so far, I don't think Pronman sees a great deal of the players he writes about.

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07-29-2011, 02:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ScopeHockey View Post
Pretty good article, IMO. I think he maybe sells Kristo and Gallagher short a little bit and overrates Nattinen, but probably the best read I've come across on Habs prospects.
Agreed, I think Kristo and Gallagher were underrated, I'd add Mac Bennett in as well who imo is a top 10 prospect for us.

His ranking of Nattinen and Mitera is shocking to me. I admit I haven't seen much of Nattinen other then the past 3 years at the WJC's. I haven't been impressed and in talking with some on the Finnish board that have followed him they weren't too high on him either. But I hope he's right, would be great if Nattinen can turn into something for us. Mitera I saw a bunch of times at Michigan and was never a fan, thought it was a bad pick by the ducks back then, I know his injury problems cost him a lot of development time so we'll see. I can't really recall him too much this past season against the Dogs but I've heard he did much better this past season. We sorely needed a LD prospect to add to the group so I hope he can be something good for us.

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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
I'm by no means an expert on this stuff but i don't think there is any doubt that our current group of prospects is pretty poor. Alot of that can be attributed to the fact that our best prospects have made the big club and the fact that Habs management has traded away a number of picks over the last couple of seasons.

But based on what i'm reading here Leblanc looks like he's quite the dissapointment. I was hoping his upside would be in the Patrice Bergeron range.
I don't know how I would rank our prospects against the rest of the league, for me this is a tough time of the year since I won't really have seen our newest prospects in live game action yet so I don't really know what to make of them yet.

That said, clearly we lack top end talent, but have loads of interesting prospects that who knows what their future holds in the NHL. Timmins has clearly been able to have a number of his draft picks reach the NHL, so I wouldn't be surprised if a decent amount of our current prospects start seeing NHL ice over the next couple of years but how much of an impact will many of them have? Hard to say at this point but overall aside from being thin on top end talent, almost nothing in nets to speak of, I still like our prospect pool when you factor in losing so many guys to the NHL full time this past season.

As for Leblanc, I personally think I am higher on him then most, but I'll get a better feel for him once he's in Hamilton. I do think his upside is still around the Patrice Bergeron range but I put more stock in their AHL play then Juniors or NCAA so we'll see how it goes for him as a pro.

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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I have no clue why everyone is so high on Tinordi who struggled big time in the OHL last season after his draft year. He could pan out, but I have to laugh every time I see habs fans pegging him into their line up and acting like he's the future. At this point, Tinordi has disappointed. He could turn it around but I''ve heard nothing but bad things about him. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he passed over for team USA camp invitations at some point ? Really don't know why habs fans on here are so high on him.

Kristo has had a very difficult season point production wise and is another guy that is realy overrated despite reports of him actually playing well despite the lack of pts. But he's also had some drama around him and certainly there are some concerns about this guy. I don't like the reports of him not having the best hockey sense.

Palushaj is actually a guy I was impressed with in his brief stint with Montreal contrarily to general opinion on this board. I feel he'll find a way to play in the NHL at some point. Lack of scoring touch is what I feel might hold him back though.
I honestly don't know what to make of Tinordi. I didn't watch him at London, but in the preseason I liked what I saw, big, moves well and kept it simple. The reports I heard from OHL fans is very disappointing, so we'll see if he can rebound next year, I know some talk was about concerns behind the bench with the D coach (who got a bad rep while with the Sea Dogs from what I have heard) Either way he's got to pick it up, but to laugh at fans for thinking he's going to be in our future seems silly to me at this point, since it's so early in his development. As a 1st round pick, he's going to get every chance to succed here, hopefully for our sake he does. There always seems to be some concerns when it comes to our 1st round draft picks, but I am willing to wait a few years to see how he progresses.

He was invited to Team USA's camp last year and this year, but was cut last year of course. Team USA loves to pick their USNDTP players, so if he doesn't make it this year it's a concern (although USA might have the best D at the WJC's since it appears that's going to be their strength)

As someone that saw a lot of Kristo, I would put it differently. He struggled with his production in the 1st half. He was brutal in the 1st half (points wise) he couldn't buy a goal. Not for lack of trying and he was getting top 9 ice time and 1st unit PP time on the point on one of the best teams in the NCAA. I don't know what went wrong, he didn't look bad but nothing was working for him, his shots were getting blocked more, or going wide etc... But in the 2nd half he started to pick it up and when it mattered most he was their best player in the playoffs in helping ND win another WCHA title. I don't really agree with the writer on Kristo, I think he's a top prospect but I do have concerns over his lack of strength when he turns pro. That said his speed is outstanding and what I love about his game is that he wants the puck, wants to be the go to guy and he can do it.

I have seen a good bit of Palushaj as well, saw him in the USHL, NCAA, and just about every game he's played in the AHL since joining the Dogs. I wasn't impressed with him in his callup as he looked overmatched physically and that's a concern I have for him going forward but still think highly of him as he seems to excell in big games and plays with some sandpaper. Just wish he would fill out some more as he doesn't have Kristo's blazing speed (he's fast though)


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Originally Posted by habsfan2772 View Post
I have a strong feeling that Brendan Gallagher will be a top prospect for us next year, he seems to be making significant progress. Also Is the guys last name Yemelin or Emilin?
Can't wait till Gallagher is in Hamilton, should be fun to see what he can do. As for Emelin, you can use either.

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Originally Posted by Mtl6 View Post
The rest might have some sort of potential, but they are all longshots for some reason.

Leblanc, Kristo, Avtsin, Palushaj and Nattinen are all overated as hell, Nattinen being the worst, I don't even see this guy having success in the AHL, his offensive side is too...well...there is none..

Some fans around here really overate our prospects. Try to be more realistic.
Fans are always going to overate prospects, it's a part of being a fan, and with the Habs it gets maginfied by a great amount since there are so many of us and they are a lot of rabid fans in the group as well. As for guys like Kristo, Leblanc, Palushaj, I don't agree that they are overrated. You could be right but maybe others have seen these guys a lot more then you and have a better feel for them, everyone should be free to express their opinion, as I get the feeling from reading the prospect poll threads that a lot of posters don't really see these guys in action all that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
He said Bournival was a below-average skater, I thought that the guy was good skater. Can someone that see him played alot tell the truth ?
I didn't see him last year but saw him in the playoffs before that and thought he was a good skater, will have to keep an eye out for that next season though.

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07-29-2011, 03:40 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Bournival is a good skater and he covers a lot of ice. I'm surprised about the comment. From what I've read from him so far, I don't think Pronman sees a great deal of the players he writes about.
I know that his straightaway speed is very good, not sure about his skating technique or how well he turns, as I'm no expert, but in a straight line, he is quite fast.

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07-29-2011, 03:51 PM
  #40
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At least, if Tinordi doesn't exactly perform up to expectations in the future, there's always the KHL for him. But his KHL draft status makes it so that, if the Habs want to loan him to a KHL team, Magnitogorsk gets first dibs on him or else Metallurg Magnitogorsk would have to deal him away if the Habs want to ship him off to another team.


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07-30-2011, 07:52 AM
  #41
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I liked the read and consider it an accurate depiction of the prospects we have. I especially agreed with his Tinordi assessment. He will struggle to become a NHL regular imo.

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07-30-2011, 07:58 AM
  #42
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I liked the read and consider it an accurate depiction of the prospects we have. I especially agreed with his Tinordi assessment. He will struggle to become a NHL regular imo.

Nice. How many games have you watched him play in the past 2 years? And what is your record for evaluating NHL talent? Who else have you projected to become non nhlers based on other people's reports?

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07-30-2011, 10:27 AM
  #43
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The article itself is not earth shattering or offensive, it appears like he regurgitates or paraphrases other analysis' of players.

As to the rankings whats your criteria? Do you rank them based on what might happen 5-7 years down the road or their more immediate potential. Beaulieu may be our better bluechip but is he really rated above Emelin, Pulashaj or Avtsin all of whom have a legitimate shot at making this years team. Kristo will probably make this team before Beaulieu, he's still in college but that only means he'll be more developed and more likely to spend minimal time in Hamilton. Some consider Kristo to be our top prospect, and have for a couple years.... how does he fall to 7?

If the long term future is your criteria then how is Emelin ahead of Leblanc. Emelin will only be here if he makes the team, and thats not guaranteed. Leblanc will play here and probably for a long time in the top 6...???

There's no consistency to his ranking, just seems like he pulled it out of his ass for what people might want to read and get hits on his site.

We have some decent prospects in our system, and most players drafted outside the top 3 rounds don't make the NHL. Occasionally you get lucky but I've done the research on it and percentage wise it's the truth. Of our top 10 prospects I'd say 7 of our current ones actually make the NHL, which isn't bad statistically. They may not be stars but they'll play and thats more than many organizations.

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07-30-2011, 10:28 AM
  #44
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I'm not necessarily a huge fan of everything Puck Prospectus writes, but Corey Pronman is excellent, and his article on Habs prospect luckliy fell into the "free" portion of the site:

http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1032

Not looking good at all. Graduating PK Subban and Yanick Weber the same year will do that to you, but it would be good if the Habs could stock up again.

They've been strong drafters in the past, but IMO, it would be best if they went back to drafting for skill; they can't afford to keep spending two high picks to draft a player like Tinordi, whose player type just doesn't project a high upside.
His projections on LeBlanc Tinordi and Kristo are a joke.

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07-30-2011, 11:11 AM
  #45
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His evaluation of Kristo is scary...

He reminds me of Brock Trotter ! or Maxwell !

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07-30-2011, 11:30 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
Nice. How many games have you watched him play in the past 2 years? And what is your record for evaluating NHL talent? Who else have you projected to become non nhlers based on other people's reports?
I've watched tinordi several times. Have read several reports about him, which have been overwhelmingly one sided, that coupled with his absolutely terrible play in the O this year suggest he's anything but a sure bet.

I like how you question my knowledge and experience judging talent, because I have an opinion that may not be popular and differs from yours. I'll play your silly game and throw it right back at you. What experience do you have, coaching, Scouting, gming, evaluating talent that validates or discredits others opinion? You don't have to work in a specific field to offer up educated opinions on specific matters. This is a discussion board, if you don't like others opinions you shouldn't b here.

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07-30-2011, 12:03 PM
  #47
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His projections on LeBlanc Tinordi and Kristo are a joke.
How so?

He's not the only one to doubt Leblanc can score at the NHL level.

That Tinordi tops off as a #4 and is more likely to end up as a third-pairing D-man is something that was largely predictable right from the moment he was drafted -- his player type, the supposedly "shutdown" physical D-man with no puck skills, is an inherently limited type of player. I still think trading a first and a second for him was unwise.

As for Kristo, he really hasn't had a good season, and if his hockey sense isn't good, that will kill the effectiveness of a player who people feel should be better because of good puck skills.

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07-30-2011, 12:10 PM
  #48
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How so?

He's not the only one to doubt Leblanc can score at the NHL level.

That Tinordi tops off as a #4 and is more likely to end up as a third-pairing D-man is something that was largely predictable right from the moment he was drafted -- his player type, the supposedly "shutdown" physical D-man with no puck skills, is an inherently limited type of player. I still think trading a first and a second for him was unwise.

As for Kristo, he really hasn't had a good season, and if his hockey sense isn't good, that will kill the effectiveness of a player who people feel should be better because of good puck skills.

There is no guarantee LeBlanc will score at the NHL level, but you can say that about any prospect.

LeBlanc has been a very good offensive player at every level, including junior, NCAA and WJHC, no reason to think he can't be a 20-30 goal NHL scorer, especially with his drive and grit.

Tons of guys with Tinordi's puck skills have been high end NHL d-men, we need to look no further than Chara who was as awkward as they come when drafted.

Not sure where you get that Kristo's hockey sense is not good, it's average to slightly above average. He had a very tough yaer last yaer, mostly off ice and it affected his play and stats, but he was one of the top scoring NCAA freshmen the year after.

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07-30-2011, 12:20 PM
  #49
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Nice. How many games have you watched him play in the past 2 years? And what is your record for evaluating NHL talent? Who else have you projected to become non nhlers based on other people's reports?
I've watched tinordi several times. Have read several reports about him, which have been overwhelmingly one sided, that coupled with his absolutely terrible play in the O this year suggest he's anything but a sure bet.

I like how you question my knowledge and experience judging talent, because I have an opinion that may not be popular and differs from yours. I'll play your silly game and throw it right back at you. What experience do you have, coaching, Scouting, gming, evaluating talent that validates or discredits others opinion? You don't have to work in a specific field to offer up educated opinions on specific matters. This is a discussion board, if you don't like others opinions you shouldn't b here.

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07-30-2011, 12:57 PM
  #50
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Tons of guys with Tinordi's puck skills have been high end NHL d-men, we need to look no further than Chara who was as awkward as they come when drafted.
That's not tons. That's one. An exceptional case. You can't project Tinordi based on some other individual exception. It's not common for players who show Tinordi's lack of skills at the key 18-19 year old development stage to become high-end NHL players. It's far more common for them to fail to make the grade. None of which says anything definitive about the specific case of Tinordi either way. We shall see what the future holds for him. I think Pronman described him and his potential pretty well.

And while I'm not sure that he shouldn't nevertheless be higher on the list, it's still mildly refreshing to see a list that doesn't seem to be largely based on regurgitating the draft positions.

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