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Old
07-29-2011, 05:34 PM
  #1
17futurecap
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Official 2011 NFL Thread

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Old
07-29-2011, 05:41 PM
  #2
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So the Eagles got a CB.

Whoopie.

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07-29-2011, 05:44 PM
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Holding off judging this completely until the Eagles can resign DSJ.

As of now, whoever wins between the Giants/Eagles games will probably win the NFC East.

Alot of factors going into next year. Can Eli bounce back? Will Vick get injured?

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07-29-2011, 05:46 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
So the Eagles got a CB.

Whoopie.

The interesting thing is that DRC and Aso are man press corners.

Samuel is a off zone corner.

Very different schemes, cant play opposite styles on different sides of the field.

Either Aso and DRC learn to play off zone (which wastes their talent), or Samuel gets moved.

If they essentially replace Samuel with Aso, its probably a wash.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:02 PM
  #5
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funny how he was 80 or 90% going to the jets according to the media. lol

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07-29-2011, 06:08 PM
  #6
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yeah I thought he was going to the Jets for sure. Now time to patch things up with Cromartie

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:12 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Who gives a poop who is better in preseason?

You dont win the SB by being "the most talented team"
No, but it gives you a much better shot.

Oh, and to the guy comparing the teams:

QB: Vick > Eli: Vick is more dynamic, adds an element that Eli cannot, the ability to run. Can throw just as well as Eli too.

RB: AB + Jacobs = McCoy: Jacobs has a lot to prove. Bradshaw is good, but not as good as McCoy. Running back isn't a what have you done for me position because of the constant change over. Younger backs are the way to go.

WR/TE: Giants = Eagles: Jackson and Macklin, Nicks and Smith even out. Celek is the next best pass catcher. I'd give a slight edge to Philly because Macklin and Jackson are much more explosive than Nicks and Smith who are possession type. Plax signs with NY, edge to them, right now, it's even.

OL: wash: Both have their holes, both have strengths

DL: Giants > Eagles: Even w/o Osi, the Giants are stronger on the edges, much stronger than Philly. Not sold on the DT position for the Giants outside of Canty, but there is talent there.

LB: Both are pretty bad, almost non-factors on their teams. Casey Matthews for the Eagles could make them stronger, but he's an unknown as of now.

DB: Eagles > Giants: The trio of Corners the Eagles are better than any of the corners on the Giants roster. Giants have better Safetys, but I'll take those corners being able to lock down teams top 3 receivers

K/P: Unknown: Eagles lost Akers, need to find a replacement. Dodge or Weatherford for the Giants punter spot, most likely Dodge will win it. Both are shaky at best right now.

ST: Eagles > Giants: Jackson returning punts is much greater than anything the Giants have back there. Have to see what the new kickoff rules do to that, so too hard to judge that aspect.

Coach: Reid > Coughlin: Never liked Coughlin to begin with. Reid is a mastermind of offense with the most explosive team in the league.

Eagles: 4
Ties: 5
Giants: 1

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07-29-2011, 06:15 PM
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**** you Nnamdi.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:17 PM
  #9
slipknottin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
No, but it gives you a much better shot.
Again, thats why they play the games.

When was the last time that the team that won the offseason won the superbowl?

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07-29-2011, 06:20 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Again, thats why they play the games.

When was the last time that the team that won the offseason won the superbowl?
Are you not reading something? Having the most talent puts you in a better position to win. Am I the only who thinks this? It seems like common sense to me. I'm not anointing the Eagles the Super Bowl. All I said is they are a better team talent wise than the Giants. Is it that hard to believe?

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07-29-2011, 06:22 PM
  #11
Darrelle Lundqvist
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Even though I'm mad the Jets didn't get him, I kind of had a feeling a wildcard was going to grab him.

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07-29-2011, 06:23 PM
  #12
slipknottin
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
All I said is they are a better team talent wise than the Giants.
On paper you think the eagles are better.

Games arent played on paper.

So the entire comment is meaningless.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:25 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
No, but it gives you a much better shot.

Oh, and to the guy comparing the teams:

QB: Vick > Eli: Vick is more dynamic, adds an element that Eli cannot, the ability to run. Can throw just as well as Eli too.

RB: AB + Jacobs = McCoy: Jacobs has a lot to prove. Bradshaw is good, but not as good as McCoy. Running back isn't a what have you done for me position because of the constant change over. Younger backs are the way to go.

WR/TE: Giants = Eagles: Jackson and Macklin, Nicks and Smith even out. Celek is the next best pass catcher. I'd give a slight edge to Philly because Macklin and Jackson are much more explosive than Nicks and Smith who are possession type. Plax signs with NY, edge to them, right now, it's even.

OL: wash: Both have their holes, both have strengths

DL: Giants > Eagles: Even w/o Osi, the Giants are stronger on the edges, much stronger than Philly. Not sold on the DT position for the Giants outside of Canty, but there is talent there.

LB: Both are pretty bad, almost non-factors on their teams. Casey Matthews for the Eagles could make them stronger, but he's an unknown as of now.

DB: Eagles > Giants: The trio of Corners the Eagles are better than any of the corners on the Giants roster. Giants have better Safetys, but I'll take those corners being able to lock down teams top 3 receivers

K/P: Unknown: Eagles lost Akers, need to find a replacement. Dodge or Weatherford for the Giants punter spot, most likely Dodge will win it. Both are shaky at best right now.

ST: Eagles > Giants: Jackson returning punts is much greater than anything the Giants have back there. Have to see what the new kickoff rules do to that, so too hard to judge that aspect.

Coach: Reid > Coughlin: Never liked Coughlin to begin with. Reid is a mastermind of offense with the most explosive team in the league.

Eagles: 4
Ties: 5
Giants: 1
How is Reid a "mastermind of offense" when his team has won ZERO SUPER BOWLS? As much as I have a problem with our coaching staff, I take TC over Reid.

If Eli bounces back, the Giants are a strong offensive team with a great pash rush and a pretty strong secondary. If Vick doesn't get injured, the Eagles are a strong offensive team with a great secondary and an average at best pash rush.

It's much closer than you make it sound.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:27 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
On paper you think the eagles are better.

Games arent played on paper.

So the entire comment is meaningless.
Wow, troll is making troll post. How is talent meaningless? Talent isn't measured on paper. It's measured on the field. The Eagles have more of it right now., thus more potential to be better. Eagles are a Super bowl caliber team right now. I cannot say the same for the Giants.

And the games are played for a reason comment, thank you captain obvious. I didn't know that one. I thought games were played on paper. Remind me who won the NFC East last year and which team improved in the offseason?

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:33 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Talent isn't measured on paper. It's measured on the field.
Right.... and its the offseason. So you cant possibly determine how talented they are right now.


As I said, you tell me the last time the team that had the best offseason won the SB.

The eagles are more talented than the Giants is a troll post if there is one.

Let them play the games.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:37 PM
  #16
mrjimmyg89
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Right.... and its the offseason. So you cant possibly determine how talented they are right now.
Sure you can. They are not rookies, we've all seen them play in the NFL. Unless there is some Redden-esque drop off in play, their talent remains the same. How they gel together is another thing, but elite players or even top end players figure how to play with each other quicker than less talented players.

So I guess we should shut down this thread since there is nothing to talk about until they play the games. sigh.

In comparison, would you say that the Bills are just as talented as the Pats cause they haven't played any games yet? It's all projection of talent, which can be done.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:43 PM
  #17
slipknottin
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Unless there is some Redden-esque drop off in play, their talent remains the same.
Doesnt work that way in the NFL.

Lets give an example here.

The bengals in 2009 went 10-6, won their division, they swept the other teams in the division, some of the best teams in the league, Ravens and the Steelers.

The bengals had virtually the exact same team the following year, except adding a couple new more talented replacements, Terrell Owens, rookie Gresham the TE.

The Bengals then managed to go 4-12 in 2010, only managed two division wins.

same team - same players - massively different results.

Players in the NFL are NOT consistent year to year like players are in other sports.


If you want a specific player example how about this. Who was the best CB in the NFC in 2008 by a huge margain?


Last edited by slipknottin: 07-29-2011 at 06:53 PM.
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Old
07-29-2011, 06:54 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Doesnt work that way in the NFL.

Lets give an example here.

The bengals in 2009 went 10-6, won their division, they swept the other teams in the division, some of the best teams in the league, Ravens and the Steelers.

The bengals had virtually the exact same team the following year, except adding a couple new more talented replacements, Terrell Owens, rookie Gresham the TE.

The Bengals then managed to go 4-12 in 2010, only managed two division wins.

same team - same players - massively different results.

Players in the NFL are NOT consistent year to year like players are in other sports.
You neglect other factors: Strength of opponents, injuries, and roster moves.

Those Bengals played a last place schedule that year. Sure they beat the Steelers and Ravens, but that doesn't mean they are a good team. All their other wins were against bad teams. Played the Jets and got romped. Next season, no houshmanzadeh, weaker defense because they played better teams, and Palmer was terrible for them against anyone decent. Running game was terrible. Nobody was predicting the Bengals to do anything the next season because they knew it was such a fluke that they did what they did.

Average and bad players aren't consistent. Good players are going to be consistent no matter who they are surrounded by. Talent can be projected. Injuries cannot, which is the root of teams dropping in the standings. Some team will rise this year cause they are the best of the worst, and a team will fall cause they rose last season and aren't ready for a tough schedule. My pick for this season is the Chiefs.

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Old
07-29-2011, 06:58 PM
  #19
slipknottin
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
You neglect other factors: Strength of opponents, injuries, and roster moves.
I talked about their roster moves. They lost pretty much nobody who they didnt replace with a better player. Im not ignoring opponents and injuries. Im giving an example how nothing is a sure thing.


Quote:
Average and bad players aren't consistent. Good players are going to be consistent no matter who they are surrounded by. Talent can be projected.
Wrong. Best CB in the NFC by a huge margain in 2008 was who?
Someone you would never guess. Some of the best players are also the most inconsistent (Vick)


Quote:
My pick for this season is the Chiefs.
Who had the easiest schedule in the league last year, now face one of the the hardest.

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Old
07-29-2011, 07:01 PM
  #20
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Yeah Chiefs aren't a playoff team this year.

But if we're talking about injuries, am I wrong for using that as a disadvantage of the Eagles? Injury prone defense and an injury prone QB.

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07-29-2011, 07:06 PM
  #21
slipknottin
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But if we're talking about injuries, am I wrong for using that as a disadvantage of the Eagles? Injury prone defense and an injury prone QB.
Imagine the eagles without say, Vick + Jackson.

Does that offense scare anyone?

Things can change awfully quick.

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07-29-2011, 07:22 PM
  #22
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Coach: Reid > Coughlin: Never liked Coughlin to begin with. Reid is a mastermind of offense with the most explosive team in the league.
Wait...you were calling out Giant fans for being homers and then post this? Lol. Have you factored NFC championship games into this equation?

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07-29-2011, 07:24 PM
  #23
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Wait...you were calling out Giant fans for being homers and then post this? Lol. Have you factored NFC championship games into this equation?
I agree, and I'm a Jets fan with no invested interest.

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07-29-2011, 07:35 PM
  #24
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Wait...you were calling out Giant fans for being homers and then post this? Lol. Have you factored NFC championship games into this equation?
I wonder why Coughlin wasn't offered a longer contract extension. Gimme Reid over Coughlin 9 times out of 10. Is it Reid's fault his players don't perform as expected when they get to the big games? Many people were calling for Coughlin's head on a platter after the season ended. I doubt he's the coach of the Giants after this season. Biggest reason he's still their coach is cause Mara knew that the lockout would last a while and coach stability from the previous season would be big. If the Giants changed coaches, the team would have to learn a new system on the fly. Coughlin gives the team the best chance to win this season. I'll guarantee that Coughlin isn't the coach of the Giants next season.

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07-29-2011, 07:44 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
I wonder why Coughlin wasn't offered a longer contract extension. Gimme Reid over Coughlin 9 times out of 10. Is it Reid's fault his players don't perform as expected when they get to the big games? Many people were calling for Coughlin's head on a platter after the season ended. I doubt he's the coach of the Giants after this season. Biggest reason he's still their coach is cause Mara knew that the lockout would last a while and coach stability from the previous season would be big. If the Giants changed coaches, the team would have to learn a new system on the fly. Coughlin gives the team the best chance to win this season. I'll guarantee that Coughlin isn't the coach of the Giants next season.
And i'll guarantee Reid never wins a Super Bowl with the Eagles because you vastly overrate him.

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