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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
07-28-2011, 10:35 AM
  #76
jmart21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
So you gave up hope on the Schenn for Hall & Eberle deal?
double post


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Old
07-28-2011, 10:36 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
So you gave up hope on the Schenn for Hall & Eberle deal?
When did I ever propose such a deal? Or even display hope for one?

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07-28-2011, 11:59 AM
  #78
ZdenoWhoIAm
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Hamilton>Marincin
Hamilton>>Teubert
Hamilton>>Klefbom

There is a reason Hamilton was taken 10 picks ahead of Klefbom and ranked as high as he is. Hamilton fell because of the large amount of teams who passed him off for forwards though Hamilton was ranked high and most scouts will say can someday be a franchise d-man.

I would not trade Hamilton for MPS even though it is close in value.

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07-28-2011, 12:15 PM
  #79
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Another great thread by the OP.

This deal is terrible for the Oilers and no way they make it.

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07-28-2011, 01:11 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
Lets not get carried away here. Maybe PRV showed improvement, but was only given that opportunity because he played for the oilers. He wouldnt have cracked many NHL lineups this year besides a team that was out of the playoffs in December. I'd rather have Hamilton, so keep "PRV".
Of course you'd rather have Hamilton. Nobody will openly admit that they would rather have another teams top end prospect over their own top end prospect unless its a drastic difference in value, which this isn't. Otherwise we wouldn't be debating on which player we would rather have. For what its worth, I think Pajaarvi would have made a number of teams coming into this season, to argue otherwise shows that you are either lacking in knowledge on this topic, or are resorting to immature insults. He very well could have made the Bruins over Marchand, Pajaarvi certainly had more hype than Marchand coming in to the season, and in scouts eyes was more NHL ready. He also did very well in the SEL last season and tore up the WJC and WC, so saying he only made the NHL because he was an Oiler is just wrong.


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07-28-2011, 01:14 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ZdenoWhoIAm View Post
Hamilton>Marincin
Hamilton>>Teubert
Hamilton>>Klefbom

There is a reason Hamilton was taken 10 picks ahead of Klefbom and ranked as high as he is. Hamilton fell because of the large amount of teams who passed him off for forwards though Hamilton was ranked high and most scouts will say can someday be a franchise d-man.

I would not trade Hamilton for MPS even though it is close in value.
You can scream all day and night about Hamilton dropping for positional need, but Klefbom did as well. Obviously Hamilton was taken over Klefbom for a reason, but there is no reason for the Oilers to think that Klefbom doesn't have the same bright future that Hamilton does. Defensemen typically develop slower, and Klefbom has a lot of time to catch up to Hamilton. The fact is, that both teams drafted a very good defensive prospect in the first round this year, the fact that Hamilton was ranked and drafted higher than Klefbom has zero affect on whether or not the Oilers would trade PRV for Hamilton, because they still wouldn't.

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07-28-2011, 01:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZdenoWhoIAm View Post
Hamilton>Marincin
Hamilton>>Teubert
Hamilton>>Klefbom

There is a reason Hamilton was taken 10 picks ahead of Klefbom and ranked as high as he is. Hamilton fell because of the large amount of teams who passed him off for forwards though Hamilton was ranked high and most scouts will say can someday be a franchise d-man.

I would not trade Hamilton for MPS even though it is close in value.
I agree with everything you say, but your reasoning is also why the original deal wasn't fair.

There was a reason MPS was taken more than 10 picks ahead of Caron and rated as high as he was. Boychuk doesn't make that difference up, just like a player like Smid wouldn't make up the difference between Klefbom and Hamilton.

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07-28-2011, 01:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Rask for Paajarvi is a little more realistic. Might be a good deal for both teams also.
In a vaccuume, value wise it's close... perhaps Oilers add a 2nd rounder.

However, Rask value to Boston is HUGE and he is not someone they can afford to trade unless it was ridicolous overpayment.

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07-28-2011, 03:42 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I agree with everything you say, but your reasoning is also why the original deal wasn't fair.

There was a reason MPS was taken more than 10 picks ahead of Caron and rated as high as he was. Boychuk doesn't make that difference up, just like a player like Smid wouldn't make up the difference between Klefbom and Hamilton.
I didn't say that the original deal was fair or good. From an Oilers standpoint no I wouldn't want to trade MPS for Caron, Boychuk, and a pick simply because MPS has a much higher ceiling than Caron, Boychuk is a defensive who does well with the Bruins because of the defensive system but a UFA out there now would satisfy any Oiler needs if they have any, and a 2nd is just a pot sweetener that doesn't help the Edmonton organization who already has so much good youth.

From a Bruins standpoint, MPS would fill what could be considered a need, in a young scoring winger yet there is Caron, Knight, and Spooner(the one I am most excited for) in the system. On top of that losing Boychuk would give away some Stanley Cup chemistry which is not a factor included in most trades. So looking at it that way, the Bruins don't really have much need to get MPS anyway with the prospects and NHL guys that we already have.

Back to the Hamilton discussion, Hamilton for Klefbom would have to have many more pieces from both sides to somehow come together. The problem is that no teams are going to trade their newest prospects pretty much ever along with the fact that Hamilton is seen as the future of the Bruins defense.

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07-28-2011, 04:33 PM
  #85
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What I understand of the 2011 NHL draft that the picks 5-20 was basically a crap shoot. All the players were even in skill and potential and you drafted toward need and not the best player available. Klefbom and Hamilton are the same type of player, but Kelfbom is meaner and loves to hit people. He runs on raw emotion and needs to learn how to control it. Hamilton is the more mature and ready of the two and probably make the NHL before Klefbom. But Klefbom has the more potential and will take a couple of years before he comes to Edmonton.

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07-28-2011, 04:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by RAK13 View Post
What I understand of the 2011 NHL draft that the picks 5-20 was basically a crap shoot. All the players were even in skill and potential and you drafted toward need and not the best player available. Klefbom and Hamilton are the same type of player, but Kelfbom is meaner and loves to hit people. He runs on raw emotion and needs to learn how to control it. Hamilton is the more mature and ready of the two and probably make the NHL before Klefbom. But Klefbom has the more potential and will take a couple of years before he comes to Edmonton.
10-20 was a crap shoot, I think the top ten (aside from Schiefele and Murphy) was pretty much a lock. But yes, I agree with your assessment of Klefbom. He has a hard shot as well apparently, just won't be NHL ready as quickly as Hamilton might be. He still has the potential to be a beast of a player though.

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Old
07-28-2011, 04:54 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAK13 View Post
What I understand of the 2011 NHL draft that the picks 5-20 was basically a crap shoot. All the players were even in skill and potential and you drafted toward need and not the best player available. Klefbom and Hamilton are the same type of player, but Kelfbom is meaner and loves to hit people. He runs on raw emotion and needs to learn how to control it. Hamilton is the more mature and ready of the two and probably make the NHL before Klefbom. But Klefbom has the more potential and will take a couple of years before he comes to Edmonton.
You cannot honestly say Klefbom has more potential straight up. It can be said realistically that they are close but there is a reason Klefbom went 19 and Hamilton went 9. And if you look at the projections and rankings Hamilton was top 5-6 on every scouting report I saw. Scouts and drafts go by potential and if Klefbom was projected to have more upside than Hamilton he would have been taken before him.

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07-28-2011, 05:03 PM
  #88
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There's no way you can say any of our defensive prospects are better than(or has the potential to be better than) Dougie Hamilton...

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07-28-2011, 05:22 PM
  #89
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Not sure why Bruins fans are interested in adding MPS.

He's a fine player and all, certainly more upside than Caron, but is there a shortage of talent on the wing or in the pipeline for the B's? So much so that they'd go out and hunt for a solution? Or try to pry someone away from another franchise? I think the answer to all those questions is no.

They've got their core offensive players in Krejci, Seguin, Bergeron, Lucic, Horton and Marchand, and they'll fill in their secondary scoring on the wings with very good (but not great), very talented kids like Caron, Spooner, Khokhlachev, Sauve and Knight.

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07-28-2011, 09:05 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
There's no way you can say any of our defensive prospects are better than(or has the potential to be better than) Dougie Hamilton...
Thank you

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Old
07-29-2011, 08:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
There's no way you can say any of our defensive prospects are better than(or has the potential to be better than) Dougie Hamilton...
Sure you can. Defenseman develop very weird and you never truly know until they're a couple seasons in. That said, no Oiler defense prospects SHOULD wind up better than Hamilton. Hamilton is going to be a VERY good player

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07-29-2011, 08:58 PM
  #92
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i can see this deal happening in 3 years, assuming boychuk doesn't get nominated for a norris in that span.

no, i'm not serious.

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07-30-2011, 01:23 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Oilersfan2354 View Post
Sure you can. Defenseman develop very weird and you never truly know until they're a couple seasons in. That said, no Oiler defense prospects SHOULD wind up better than Hamilton. Hamilton is going to be a VERY good player
Yeah, they could be better, but there's no way anyone(the Oiler fan earlier in this thread, in particular) can say Marincin or Klefbom should be better.

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07-30-2011, 07:52 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by RAK13 View Post
What I understand of the 2011 NHL draft that the picks 5-20 was basically a crap shoot. All the players were even in skill and potential and you drafted toward need and not the best player available. Klefbom and Hamilton are the same type of player, but Kelfbom is meaner and loves to hit people. He runs on raw emotion and needs to learn how to control it. Hamilton is the more mature and ready of the two and probably make the NHL before Klefbom. But Klefbom has the more potential and will take a couple of years before he comes to Edmonton.
From everything I have read, most scouts seem to think Hamilton has more potential to be a top defenseman, at least one has said Hamilton has every bit as much potential as Larsson, I haven't read that about Klefbom. That doesn't mean Klefbom isn't highly thought of, just that hamilton is thought of more highly.

Also, from what I have read, scouts were saying it was the group of the top 4 players, then a little drop off, the next 5 players then a bigger drop off, then the next 20 or so players followed by a drop off and then another 20 or so players in terms of how they viewed the draft talent wise. I have read opinions of the draft pretty similar to that quite a few times. A lot of people called it a deep draft, 50 players deep, some also said it may not have the top end talent as some drafts, but that it might produce more NHL level players than a lot of drafts.

I haven't seen anyone say Klefbom has more potential than Hamilton, I haven't seen them compared at all.

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