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Old
07-29-2011, 09:30 AM
  #76
Mr Irreverent
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Originally Posted by RAZZIE King View Post
I hate to think that he just screwed himself out of a roster spot this season...
And that's exactly what he did.

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07-29-2011, 09:40 AM
  #77
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How long until Holloways rights are dealt?

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07-29-2011, 06:29 PM
  #78
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I think DL screwed up here. Also he may have screwed up with A Mart too. According to the CBA, or at least how I read it, Martinez needed to be given a one way deal because he played 60 or more games last season. LA could have sat him one game and only had to give him a two way deal. This would have allowed LA to save money if VV, Muzzin or Hickey force AMart to start the season in the AHL.

Some here will say its only peanuts, but it does go to show that maybe DL needs to pay a little more attention to the small details.

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07-29-2011, 06:57 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nK View Post
I think DL screwed up here. Also he may have screwed up with A Mart too. According to the CBA, or at least how I read it, Martinez needed to be given a one way deal because he played 60 or more games last season. LA could have sat him one game and only had to give him a two way deal. This would have allowed LA to save money if VV, Muzzin or Hickey force AMart to start the season in the AHL.

Some here will say its only peanuts, but it does go to show that maybe DL needs to pay a little more attention to the small details.
You think Martinez would have signed a 2-way deal? No way. He's in LA to stay. At worst, he will be the #7 next season.

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07-29-2011, 07:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nK View Post
maybe DL needs to pay a little more attention to the small details.
I agree that a call-up for Holloway could have made a difference, but DL is pretty well obsessed with small details.

Sydor25 is right, that's probably a concession Martinez wanted.

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07-29-2011, 11:40 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
You think Martinez would have signed a 2-way deal? No way. He's in LA to stay. At worst, he will be the #7 next season.
My point is that DL took that option away. Had he not played in the required number of games AMart would have had to accept a two way deal just like many others who did not have the required games. Yes LA may have had to pay a little more NHL salary but they would also have the option of having him in Manchester at around $75,000-100,000 if he is outplayed at camp.

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07-30-2011, 01:16 AM
  #82
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Well I did some research and found that J McGinn (143 total NHL games and 49 last yr) signed a two way deal at $105K/680K

Also T Lewis was given a two way deal after his 3 yr ELC expired.
One slightly odd note was that Dustin Jeffrey signed a two year deal that is two way in year one and one way in year two! Just seems to me that DL needs to do less interviews and trying to come up with funny sound bites and maybe look into some of the finer details of contracts. IMO I think this is why Moller went overseas. He was probably offered a two way deal and figured the guaranteed salary was a better option. A big season just ups his asking price.

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07-30-2011, 02:49 AM
  #83
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Is Martinez even waiver exempt? If not, he will never make it to Manchester.

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07-30-2011, 03:26 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I disagree with you that the SEL is a better league than the AHL. I have been to several SEL games in my life and while I have been to a significantly larger amount of AHL games to me the SEL is about a half a step below the AHL in regards to preparing a player to make it to and in the NHL.
Well perhaps I should have made a difference between preparing for the NHL and the quality of the league alone. I mean in Europe they already have a larger surface, that's one disadvantage already.

A player like Anze Kopitar barely netted any points in the SEL. The year there after he had 72 points in the NHL...

The goaltending is better, better defense, more skilled players. Much harder to score in the SEL also. Many skilled Europeans just cant make it because of the physical play in North-America but the level of the league itself is above the AHL.

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07-30-2011, 10:11 AM
  #85
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I don't blame the kid.

Reality is that odds are against him to make the big club. Chances are that he never establish himself in the NHL and would spend most of his career in the AHL. So not surprising he took the money now and if he succeed oversea, i'm sure the Kings or another NHL team will give him a shot anyway

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07-30-2011, 01:20 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Is Martinez even waiver exempt? If not, he will never make it to Manchester.
True. I think he isn't exempt.

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07-30-2011, 01:33 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nK View Post
I think DL screwed up here. Also he may have screwed up with A Mart too. According to the CBA, or at least how I read it, Martinez needed to be given a one way deal because he played 60 or more games last season. LA could have sat him one game and only had to give him a two way deal. This would have allowed LA to save money if VV, Muzzin or Hickey force AMart to start the season in the AHL.

Some here will say its only peanuts, but it does go to show that maybe DL needs to pay a little more attention to the small details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nK View Post
Well I did some research and found that J McGinn (143 total NHL games and 49 last yr) signed a two way deal at $105K/680K

Also T Lewis was given a two way deal after his 3 yr ELC expired.
One slightly odd note was that Dustin Jeffrey signed a two year deal that is two way in year one and one way in year two! Just seems to me that DL needs to do less interviews and trying to come up with funny sound bites and maybe look into some of the finer details of contracts. IMO I think this is why Moller went overseas. He was probably offered a two way deal and figured the guaranteed salary was a better option. A big season just ups his asking price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 10.2(a)(iii)
A Club's Qualifying Offer must be a One-Way Qualifying Offer if the applicable Player has: (A) actually played (excluding games missed for injury, illness or disability) 180 or more NHL Games in the previous three (3) NHL Seasons, (B) played at least sixty (60) NHL Games in the previous NHL Season, and (C) not cleared Waivers in the period between the 12th day prior to the commencement of the previous Regular Season and the end of a Club's previous Playing Season. For purposes hereof only, a goaltender is deemed to have played an NHL Game when he was dressed and on the bench as a backup. In all other cases, a Qualifying Offer may be a Two-Way Qualifying Offer.
Martinez had not played 180+ NHL games in the last 3 NHL seasons. His qualifying offer did not have to be a one-way qualifying offer.

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07-31-2011, 12:13 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Martinez had not played 180+ NHL games in the last 3 NHL seasons. His qualifying offer did not have to be a one-way qualifying offer.
Oh I read it as 180 NHL games last 3 yrs OR 60 or maore games the previous year. Thats why I mentioned AMart playing exactly 60 last season. My bad but still think DL should have given a two way deal

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07-31-2011, 12:19 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Well perhaps I should have made a difference between preparing for the NHL and the quality of the league alone. I mean in Europe they already have a larger surface, that's one disadvantage already.

A player like Anze Kopitar barely netted any points in the SEL. The year there after he had 72 points in the NHL...

The goaltending is better, better defense, more skilled players. Much harder to score in the SEL also. Many skilled Europeans just cant make it because of the physical play in North-America but the level of the league itself is above the AHL.
Yes

Looking at your response I think I could have been being a bit nit picky and in truth didn't want to seem like I was selling the SEL short. I have been to a bunch of SEL games and think that in as far as overall balance of the game (goaltending, intl surface, superior passing to name a couple) that the SEL is the better professional league and should have said that instead of what I did.

Your distinction is more correct, the AHL does a better job at preparing most NA players for the NHL but out of the league's in EU the SEL is by far the most superior in my experience and it also does a great job of providing both a fun game to watch and prepairing players for the NHL as well.

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07-31-2011, 10:23 AM
  #90
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I disagree regarding DL making a mistake by signing AMart to a one way deal. Every situation is not the same. Comparing Lewis' standing in the organization when he signed his two way deal is an apples to oranges comparison. Trevor was still trying to stick with the team and when with the Kings, not be a healthy scratch. Once AMart broke into the lineup on his second call-up, he stayed in the lineup and had a TOI of 15+ minutes per game. Couple that with a remarkably solid season in both providing some offense and being responsible defensively, especially for a rookie, and you have a recipe for a one way deal.

It's obvious that the Kings FO think he's an NHL'er now and wanted to reward him for his hard work and paying his dues without whining. There's almost no downside to his contract, either. If one of the prospects convincingly beat him out, they can trade him easily because he's cheap. It's been speculated here before (and I think Hammond's blog) that the reason his contract is so reasonable is that he bypassed potential larger dollars to ensure that it was a one way deal and not a two way. I don't think DL is the type to dick a player by intentionally sending him down to Manchester to avoid a higher salary, so it works for both parties.

On topic about Holloway, it's a shame because like many of us thought prior, he had a real opportunity to break into the lineup this season. There's an opening at bottom 6 RW that he probably would've had the inside track for, had he not disappointed in camp. Even DL said he was close. You'd think that he'd at least want to give it one more shot, if making the NHL is your dream and not just making more money playing pro hockey in any league. The opportunity was staring him in the face and he blinked and went to Europe. Maybe he'll come back in a year, but he's gotta mend some fences if it's going to be in a Kings sweater.

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07-31-2011, 07:50 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
I disagree regarding DL making a mistake by signing AMart to a one way deal. Every situation is not the same. Comparing Lewis' standing in the organization when he signed his two way deal is an apples to oranges comparison. Trevor was still trying to stick with the team and when with the Kings, not be a healthy scratch. Once AMart broke into the lineup on his second call-up, he stayed in the lineup and had a TOI of 15+ minutes per game. Couple that with a remarkably solid season in both providing some offense and being responsible defensively, especially for a rookie, and you have a recipe for a one way deal.

It's obvious that the Kings FO think he's an NHL'er now and wanted to reward him for his hard work and paying his dues without whining. There's almost no downside to his contract, either. If one of the prospects convincingly beat him out, they can trade him easily because he's cheap. It's been speculated here before (and I think Hammond's blog) that the reason his contract is so reasonable is that he bypassed potential larger dollars to ensure that it was a one way deal and not a two way. I don't think DL is the type to dick a player by intentionally sending him down to Manchester to avoid a higher salary, so it works for both parties.

On topic about Holloway, it's a shame because like many of us thought prior, he had a real opportunity to break into the lineup this season. There's an opening at bottom 6 RW that he probably would've had the inside track for, had he not disappointed in camp. Even DL said he was close. You'd think that he'd at least want to give it one more shot, if making the NHL is your dream and not just making more money playing pro hockey in any league. The opportunity was staring him in the face and he blinked and went to Europe. Maybe he'll come back in a year, but he's gotta mend some fences if it's going to be in a Kings sweater.
Well I don't know how AMart would be passing up a bigger contract seeing how he had very little leverage. Personally I see him, Hickey or VV moved before the season ends.

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07-31-2011, 09:24 PM
  #92
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Well I don't know how AMart would be passing up a bigger contract seeing how he had very little leverage. Personally I see him, Hickey or VV moved before the season ends.
Arbitration. Why not just let it go to an arbiter then if AMart likely could've been had for less? The terms would have been 1 or 2 years. I seem to recall many people here saying that it was a fantastic deal for the Kings, as well.

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07-31-2011, 10:21 PM
  #93
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Arbitration. Why not just let it go to an arbiter then if AMart likely could've been had for less? The terms would have been 1 or 2 years. I seem to recall many people here saying that it was a fantastic deal for the Kings, as well.
Ya the NHL money was a good deal but I also remember thinking that many people had him penciled in to make too much. Personally I think arbitration would have been better, especially if it allowed LA to give him a two way deal. I'll have to look into it.

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07-31-2011, 10:26 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
Ya the NHL money was a good deal but I also remember thinking that many people had him penciled in to make too much. Personally I think arbitration would have been better, especially if it allowed LA to give him a two way deal. I'll have to look into it.
There is no point to a 2-way deal since he would never clear waivers anyways. You don't think another team would pick him up off of waivers? A young PMD that can QB the 2nd PP unit.

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07-31-2011, 10:30 PM
  #95
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There is no point to a 2-way deal since he would never clear waivers anyways. You don't think another team would pick him up off of waivers? A young PMD that can QB the 2nd PP unit.
Well this year probably not but he is far from a lock to play in the NHL. Also teams need to waive players to make room for ones picked up so sometimes teams don't bother. Just pointing out that it didn't HAVE to be offered. Heck the other 29 teams in the NHL would probably pay DD $6-7M to have him so why not just sign him to that?

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07-31-2011, 11:14 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
Well this year probably not but he is far from a lock to play in the NHL. Also teams need to waive players to make room for ones picked up so sometimes teams don't bother. Just pointing out that it didn't HAVE to be offered. Heck the other 29 teams in the NHL would probably pay DD $6-7M to have him so why not just sign him to that?
Why do you care so much about this? Do you work for AEG? Martinez's cap hit is the same with a 1-way or 2-way contract.

Were you this upset with Zeiler getting paid NHL money to play in Manchester for 4 years?

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07-31-2011, 11:19 PM
  #97
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Well this year probably not but he is far from a lock to play in the NHL. Also teams need to waive players to make room for ones picked up so sometimes teams don't bother. Just pointing out that it didn't HAVE to be offered. Heck the other 29 teams in the NHL would probably pay DD $6-7M to have him so why not just sign him to that?
Except you actually have to #1, be willing to part with 4 first round draft choices because Drew's salary almost assuredly would be in the range for that type of draft choice compensation, #2 actually have 4 first round draft choices available in succession, #3 structure a contract in such a way the Kings could not/would not want to match, #4 be a team that Drew would actually want to sign with if the Kings don't match, #5 want to be that GM/team that breaks the unspoken rule about signing other team's RFAs to offer sheets. When you factor in all that, those 29 teams turn into what? Zero. But hey, I guess it's not too late for that single offer sheet to come in that Drew would sign.

Back to AMart, and my last post on this since it's not related to the OP anymore, the Kings don't decide if it's a 2-way contract after arbitration. The arbiter does. I'm sure DL took that all into account when he offered Alec the 2 year 1 way deal.

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08-01-2011, 07:53 AM
  #98
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Why do you care so much about this? Do you work for AEG? Martinez's cap hit is the same with a 1-way or 2-way contract.

Were you this upset with Zeiler getting paid NHL money to play in Manchester for 4 years?
LOL! No I do not work for AEG but I do get a little upset when teams seem to pay lower end to mid level players too much money but haggle with the top end elite talent. Look at TB for example. They give Brewer big money but wont commit big dollars long term to their own drafted superstar. Too many GM's toss around mid level money to players that are average then try to control costs on the big ticket players.

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08-01-2011, 07:56 AM
  #99
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Except you actually have to #1, be willing to part with 4 first round draft choices because Drew's salary almost assuredly would be in the range for that type of draft choice compensation, #2 actually have 4 first round draft choices available in succession, #3 structure a contract in such a way the Kings could not/would not want to match, #4 be a team that Drew would actually want to sign with if the Kings don't match, #5 want to be that GM/team that breaks the unspoken rule about signing other team's RFAs to offer sheets. When you factor in all that, those 29 teams turn into what? Zero. But hey, I guess it's not too late for that single offer sheet to come in that Drew would sign.

Back to AMart, and my last post on this since it's not related to the OP anymore, the Kings don't decide if it's a 2-way contract after arbitration. The arbiter does. I'm sure DL took that all into account when he offered Alec the 2 year 1 way deal.
Ya I too will not post anymore as it is off topic. My last point is why not use the rules to your advantage? If you are a millionare and are going to get married do you get her to sign a prenup? Just to cover yourself if things don't work out? I remember many people singing Drewiskie's praises and now he is talked to be the man on the outside.

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08-01-2011, 07:59 PM
  #100
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Judging by the comment from the Richards presser,Lombardi seems pretty perplexed at the whole situation with both Elkins and Holloway going for the cash grab in Europe.

Click on part 4
http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...sole?catid=729

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