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Bluebloods took less to remain NYR

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Old
07-31-2011, 05:20 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
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Bluebloods took less to remain NYR

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If Brandon Dubinskyís four-year, $16.8 million contract signing was a grand slam home run for the Rangers at a cap hit of $4.2 million per year, then Ryan Callahanís three-year, $12.825 million deal was a summer walk-off grand slam for the Blueshirts at an annual charge of $4.275M under the cap.

Callahan took less to stay, there is no doubt about that. Dubinsky probably took less to stay. Marc Staal (five years at $3.975M per) probably took less to stay under the contract he signed last summer.

These are the Bluebloods. This is what you want from your core. These are the character people you want at your core.

And this is what the Rangers have ó after so much time, after so many false starts and so much organizational dysfunction.

The games and the season remain to be played and coached, nothing is guaranteed, but mark 2011 as the Summer of Slats.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/islan...#ixzz1Tg0kC9g4

All of those players still received very good money. Their contracts are comparable to other similar players.

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07-31-2011, 06:16 AM
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I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. Callahan and Dubinsky could have gone all the way through arbitration--maybe have gotten a little less per year but then would probably be in the $5-5.5 mil range once they got to UFA. Instead they both gave up a couple UFA years.

Where were they going to go though? Dubinsky is a lifelong Rangers fan. He's in the conversation for a letter this year--having the respect of his teammates and the coaching staff. Does he want to go to Pittsburgh? Los Angeles? Chicago? I have to think he is where he wants to be.

As for Callahan--quite likely our next captain. Maybe he wouldn't mind playing for the Sabres but apart from that I'd ask the same question. What other city would he like to play in besides maybe his almost hometown team in Buffalo? More than less I would think he's happy where he is.

In any case both deals were very fair to the players in market place terms.

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07-31-2011, 07:32 AM
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Honestly, Uncle Larry?

They just signed the same deals that we saw similar players sign with their own clubs. So when he says they "took less", what the hell is he talking about? Less than what? Less implies a direct comparison to others. Who are these plethora of other players who were in similar situations with similar stats who got gobs more money?

Show me player X of Dubi's age and statistics with his number of RFA years left who signed a contract for the same length that paid him more. There are certainly plenty of comparables that are about the same, but I can't think of any that signed for MORE. Unless he's comparing to UFA contracts, which is just asinine - and frankly what I think Larry is doing. The idiot.

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07-31-2011, 08:00 AM
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Larry stirring up the poop pot again.

Expect more of this till camp, he was busy belittling Osgood last weekend, not that I totaly disagree but he took his rant too far at times, now it's back to poking the stick in the NYR snake den.

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07-31-2011, 08:11 AM
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They got their correct contracts. No more, no less.

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07-31-2011, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Honestly, Uncle Larry?

They just signed the same deals that we saw similar players sign with their own clubs. So when he says they "took less", what the hell is he talking about? Less than what? Less implies a direct comparison to others. Who are these plethora of other players who were in similar situations with similar stats who got gobs more money?

Show me player X of Dubi's age and statistics with his number of RFA years left who signed a contract for the same length that paid him more. There are certainly plenty of comparables that are about the same, but I can't think of any that signed for MORE. Unless he's comparing to UFA contracts, which is just asinine - and frankly what I think Larry is doing. The idiot.
Using UFA contracts as comparable is exactly what he's doing. On twitter, he compared Dubinsky to Leino's contract prior to Dubinsky reaching terms with the Rangers. James Mirtle (or some other Canadian media person) put him in his place with a responding tweet, but I'd assume Brooks simply ignored it.

From July 20th:

Quote:
NYP_Brooksie Larry Brooks

Ville Leino is getting $4.5M per for six years....you don't think Dubinsky would get between $5-5.5M? Please.

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Old
07-31-2011, 09:25 AM
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I don't usually agree with UL, but he is right here. Dubi & Cally would have gotten almost a million more per year on the inflated open market.

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07-31-2011, 09:32 AM
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Darrelle Lundqvist
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I think that what they were paid was fair value. Yeah there might have been a time out there that would offer them 5 mil+ but imo, what Dubi and Cally are paid now is right.

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07-31-2011, 09:52 AM
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The whole reason we'd have a solid, loyal core is because we've resisted the calls from Larry Brooks to trade for Superstar A and Suprestar B, sign Superstar A and B.

Larry Brooks needs to write about players well known throughout the league. He likes trades and free agent signing because it's something he can write about that doesn't take much effort to obtain information. A cookie cutter article that you'd find on most any newspaper. He doesn't want to spend the time researching to write about the game or it's younger, unknown generation. Now that some of these young players are turning into stars he has something to write about.

We built a team the way fans always wanted, not the way Larry Brooks and other media types have been calling for all these years..


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07-31-2011, 10:01 AM
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If Dubi and Cally took less to stay, their cap hits would be under $4 million. I think their contracts are right in line with other comparable RFAs. Could they have squeezed the Rangers for a bit more money? Perhaps, but I don't think the contracts of Dubinsky, Cally, or Staal can be classified as hometown discounts.

As others have mentioned, Brooks is once again wrongly using UFAs as a comparable for our RFAs. Of course he think Dubi took less to stay, he speculated that Dubi would receive around $5 million because Leino received $4.5 million on the open market. Makes no sense.

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07-31-2011, 10:29 AM
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You mean they didn't have their heads up their butts and didn't demand first line player money when they are clearly second liners? Well, I guess they have more character than a certain Jet wide receiver... Good riddance brah.

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07-31-2011, 10:52 AM
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I can see where other teams would pay a little more to have these guys

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07-31-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I don't usually agree with UL, but he is right here. Dubi & Cally would have gotten almost a million more per year on the inflated open market.
Ok, but they WEREN'T on the open market! That's the point. By that logic, Stamkos would have the largest contract in the league right now.

The context of the contract is key for judging the fairness/appropriateness/generosity of that contract. This is exactly what we're criticizing UL for. You can't say "oh Dubi was generous," or "Dubi took less that he could have to stay here," because he DIDN'T take less. He took as much as was appropriate for a player in his position. Had he BEEN an unrestricted free agent, he would have been eligible for a more expensive contract - and he would have gotten it.

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07-31-2011, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
The whole reason we'd have a solid, loyal core is because we've resisted the calls from Larry Brooks to trade for Superstar A and Suprestar B, sign Superstar A and B.

Larry Brooks needs to write about players well known throughout the league. He likes trades and free agent signing because it's something he can write about that doesn't take much effort to obtain information. A cookie cutter article that you'd find on most any newspaper. He doesn't want to spend the time researching to write about the game or it's younger, unknown generation. Now that some of these young players are turning into stars he has something to write about.

We built a team the way fans always wanted, not the way Larry Brooks and other media types have been calling for all these years..

Do you even ****ing read the guy? I get that he bothers some people and says some stupid things, but what the **** are you talking about? The whole everytime Brooks writes anything and 90% of this board cries and whines about it is so obnoxious at this point it's ridiculous.

Where are your links to his articles that support all your crap? I know for a fact you either don't read him or just hate him to the point of saying ridiculous nonsense.

Brooks needs to write about players well known throughout the league? He writes for a NEW YORK newspaper. Do you want him giving you up dates on the Wild's farm system or something?

Some of you people are so ridiculous when it comes to Brooks. Get over it already. He has a job covering the Rangers and you don't. Boo-hoo.


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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Ok, but they WEREN'T on the open market! That's the point. By that logic, Stamkos would have the largest contract in the league right now.

The context of the contract is key for judging the fairness/appropriateness/generosity of that contract. This is exactly what we're criticizing UL for. You can't say "oh Dubi was generous," or "Dubi took less that he could have to stay here," because he DIDN'T take less. He took as much as was appropriate for a player in his position. Had he BEEN an unrestricted free agent, he would have been eligible for a more expensive contract - and he would have gotten it.
I think his point was that someone like Cally could've easily taken a 1 year arbitration award and then cashed in next year as a UFA. When he couldn't agree on a long term deal there's no reason he had to take a 3 year one.

Knowing that he would have made more on the open market next year, and instead giving up two of his UFA years, is, whether you like it or not, an example of taking less money to stay here.

See: Parise, Zach. A player who is now looking like even if he stays in NJ, he's going to be holding them up for every last penny. The complete opposite of what our players did.

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07-31-2011, 11:04 AM
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Didn't Larry complain about one of the contracts when it was first signed? I coulda sworn he said Dubi was overpaid.

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07-31-2011, 11:07 AM
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When the Rangers RFA's opted for arbitration--there was the signal that they wanted to stay in the organization. It took any offers sheets from other teams out of the picture. At the same time though--neither the players nor the team are in the driver's seat--it comes down to an arbitrator's decision and here the team can walk away and let the player become an unrestricted free agent but that was obviously not going to happen here because all the RFA's are key components of the team.

Comparing their contracts to Ville Leino's isn't practical at all. The situation of being an unrestricted free agent is much different from being a resticted. As well there was no chance that Leino was going to re-sign with Philadelphia. They couldn't afford him--had to cut loose Richards and Carter just to be able to bring in Bryzgalov and Jagr (who could probably have gone somewhere else for more $). There was no way they could have fit Leino in and IMHO Buffalo overpaid for him big time.

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07-31-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Didn't Larry complain about one of the contracts when it was first signed? I coulda sworn he said Dubi was overpaid.
Pretty sure he referred to it as a home run after it was signed.

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07-31-2011, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Pretty sure he referred to it as a home run after it was signed.
Maybe i'm thinking about BR then. I know he said something about one of the contracts but I can't remember.

I'm actually thinking it was about Arty, now.

Yeah it was Arty.

Quote:
NYP_Brooksie Larry Brooks
Anisimov in at $1.875M per on 2-year deal. Very generous for 3d yr guy with no arb rights who wasnt much of factor last month or in playoffs
Alright then, carry on.

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07-31-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Maybe i'm thinking about BR then. I know he said something about one of the contracts but I can't remember.

I'm actually thinking it was about Arty, now.

Yeah it was Arty.



Alright then, carry on.
He was initially skeptical on the Richards signing as well, and then changed his tune a day or two later.

"So it turns out the issue wasnít so much whether I agreed with Glen Sather and Jim Dolan on the deal the Rangers gave Brad Richards, but whether I agreed with myself.
Yes (or no), thatís correct. I did not want the Rangers to become enmeshed in a bidding war for No. 19. I did not want the Rangers to repeat their sins of the past by bribing a marquee athlete to wear the crest (while being careful never to step on it in the room). I did not want the team to give Richards longer than five years.
But itís clear this wasnít bribery that led to a shotgun wedding; this was a marriage. Richards left money on the table to sign. He did not attempt to shake every nickel loose. I had proposed five years at $6.5 million per. Essentially it is six years at $6.67 million per."


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1ThU3QenC

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07-31-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Didn't Larry complain about one of the contracts when it was first signed? I coulda sworn he said Dubi was overpaid.
Brooks loved the Dubinsky contract

Quote:
My take on Dubinsky contract: grand slam homerun for the Rangers.
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...94782028197888

Brooks didn't like the AA contract

Quote:
Anisimov in at $1.875M per on 2-year deal. Very generous for 3d yr guy with no arb rights who wasnt much of factor last month or in playoffs
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...02203059658753

Brooks thought AA was worth $1.25M

Quote:
Adding another $1.25 million for Artem Anisimov, a restricted free agent without arbitration rights coming off Entry Level, equals an approximate $13 million.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1ThT2oqpL

Martin Hanzal got 2 years/$3.6M last summer in the last position as AA with no arbitration rights.

Brooks didn't the Richards contract either but then changed his mind 2 weeks later.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...3Krr6s8gRLAJMI

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07-31-2011, 11:23 AM
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Giving up UFA years is a real commitment. The fact that Lundquist and Staal are already on board and that you're a young millionaire in New York City certainly made it easier.

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07-31-2011, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Do you even ****ing read the guy? I get that he bothers some people and says some stupid things, but what the **** are you talking about? The whole everytime Brooks writes anything and 90% of this board cries and whines about it is so obnoxious at this point it's ridiculous.

Where are your links to his articles that support all your crap? I know for a fact you either don't read him or just hate him to the point of saying ridiculous nonsense.

Brooks needs to write about players well known throughout the league? He writes for a NEW YORK newspaper. Do you want him giving you up dates on the Wild's farm system or something?

Some of you people are so ridiculous when it comes to Brooks. Get over it already. He has a job covering the Rangers and you don't. Boo-hoo.




I think his point was that someone like Cally could've easily taken a 1 year arbitration award and then cashed in next year as a UFA. When he couldn't agree on a long term deal there's no reason he had to take a 3 year one.

Knowing that he would have made more on the open market next year, and instead giving up two of his UFA years, is, whether you like it or not, an example of taking less money to stay here.

See: Parise, Zach. A player who is now looking like even if he stays in NJ, he's going to be holding them up for every last penny. The complete opposite of what our players did.
OTOH--Callahan's game is a bit like Parise's--only he's not as talented--better defensively though--but Parise at least for the next several years is worth more $ than Callahan will be.

In Parise's defense--the Rangers are building something and Callahan is a major part of it. It's questionable to me what New Jersey has been doing the last two-three years and I can see reasons why Parise might want to leave beyond just the cashing in aspect. As well there's the Kovalchuk 15 year deal and Ilya's less than stellar first year of it which included benchings, the coach sitting him out a few times and subsequent spats between coach and player. Parise who has always been a good soldier might see himself in the role of second banana to Ilya and not really like it. That's speculating for sure but I think it's reasonable speculation. Throw on top of it Lou's reputation for being a hard nosed--sometimes skinflinting--negotiator and maybe that's all that it takes to make him look around for greener pastures.

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07-31-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
OTOH--Callahan's game is a bit like Parise's--only he's not as talented--better defensively though--but Parise at least for the next several years is worth more $ than Callahan will be.

In Parise's defense--the Rangers are building something and Callahan is a major part of it. It's questionable to me what New Jersey has been doing the last two-three years and I can see reasons why Parise might want to leave beyond just the cashing in aspect. As well there's the Kovalchuk 15 year deal and Ilya's less than stellar first year of it which included benchings, the coach sitting him out a few times and subsequent spats between coach and player. Parise who has always been a good soldier might see himself in the role of second banana to Ilya and not really like it. That's speculating for sure but I think it's reasonable speculation. Throw on top of it Lou's reputation for being a hard nosed--sometimes skinflinting--negotiator and maybe that's all that it takes to make him look around for greener pastures.
Oh sure, and I'm not necessarily talking about all the possible reasons as to why a player would want to leave anywhere. There's always going to be pro's and con's to that for any player in any situation.

I don't think flaming Larry Brooks for saying that these players took less to stay here is justified.

I understand where Brooklyn is coming from saying that you can't compare a UFA to an RFA, and that's correct. But what you can do is look at the situation and realize that these players were only 1 and 2 years away respectively from being UFA's, and would have gotten more than they took to stay.

You can say that "They're an RFA, they had no leverage, they got what they should have" or whatever, but the point remains true that no one was forcing them to sign for the amount of years they signed for before they got the chance to go UFA.

Whatever Parise's reasoning is for his decision, he's doing the complete opposite of what the players Brooks mentioned did.

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07-31-2011, 11:40 AM
  #24
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I think Brooks was extrapolating out to next year. They could both have gone to arb. gotten a year at whatever the # the arbitrator decided and then hit the FA market next yr.

They took less money than they "could" have made next year more than the upcoming one. In that regard he's correct.

I think his point is valid, they wanted to stay... we should be proud of this team and their heart. No problems with that.

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07-31-2011, 12:18 PM
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I'd rather see them both giving Sather a fight. He got it way too easy. The fact they took less will not prevent Sather from trading either when Richards will become next Drury or Gaborik gets shelved with another injury or both. When they end up elsewhere with their underpaid contracts they might regret their loyalty.

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